Imagine (replacing Trump with Godliness)

[subllibrm]

It is interesting thatJesus speaks a total of approximately 31,426 words across the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) when removing parallel duplications, yet did Jesus ever directly mention homosexuality or gay relationships?

He directly spoke about God's intention for marriage which is between one man and one woman.

The argument that you put forth is a failure of logic and reasoning. Replace the word homosexuality with incest or beastiality and see where you land.

 

[Ekklesian]

It is interesting thatJesus speaks a total of approximately 31,426 words across the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) when removing parallel duplications, yet did Jesus ever directly mention homosexuality or gay relationships?

He defined marriage. What more needs to be said?

 

[DoctorDuck]

That Jesus did not opine personally on the topic is of no consequence. He didn't have anything to say about slavery, white supremacy, or wife-beating, either.

True, but he taught many principles directly related to such items. He may not have specifically mentioned “wife beating,” but he specifically mentions the rejection of anger, retaliation, etc.

 

[DoctorDuck]

He directly spoke about God's intention for marriage which is between one man and one woman.

The argument that you put forth is a failure of logic and reasoning. Replace the word homosexuality with incest or beastiality and see where you land.

Are you referring to the verse in which he strictly condemned divorce and remarriage? It’s amazing how Christians seem to completely ignore the actual point of the verse (since 50% of Christians are breaking that biblical command)

 

[ALAYMAN]

It is interesting thatJesus speaks a total of approximately 31,426 words across the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) when removing parallel duplications, yet did Jesus ever directly mention homosexuality or gay relationships?

Are you attempting to pit Jesus’ words in the gospels versus God‘s word elsewhere? And secondly, are you suggesting that you think that homosexuality is not a sin?

 

[DoctorDuck]

Are you attempting to pit Jesus’ words in the gospels versus God‘s word elsewhere? And secondly, are you suggesting that you think that homosexuality is not a sin?

What I’m asking is, why do you (and so many other Christians) have a double standard when it comes to the topic of homosexual marriage, but not divorce (and remarriage) by heterosexuals?

According to the Bible, including Jesus’ own words on the subject (reposted via Got Questions, which many of you like referring to), the grounds for divorce are quite clear:

The Bible gives two clear grounds for divorce: (1) sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32; 19:9) and (2) abandonment by an unbeliever (1 Corinthians 7:15). Even in these two instances, though, divorce is not required or even encouraged. The most that can be said is that sexual immorality and abandonment are grounds (an allowance) for divorce. Confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration should always be the first steps. Divorce should almost always be viewed as the last resort.

Are there any grounds for divorce beyond what the Bible explicitly says? Perhaps, but it is always dangerous to presume upon the Word of God (1 Corinthians 4:6). The most frequent additional grounds for divorce that people inquire about are spousal abuse (emotional or physical), child abuse, addiction to pornography, drug / alcohol use, crime / imprisonment, and mismanagement of finances (such as through a gambling addiction). None of these can be claimed to be explicitly biblical grounds for a divorce.

Furthermore, if a man marries a woman who is divorced (and presumably vice versa) for unbiblical purposes, he lives in a constant state of adultery (Matthew 5:32): https://www.gotquestions.org/whoever-marries-a-divorced-woman-commits-adultery.html

So, perhaps all of the judgmental handwringing by Christians who are openly living in sin needs to be addressed before attacking two men or women who are married. Perhaps this should be left for God to judge. Maybe that’s why President Carter adopted this attitude late in life.

And to answer your question, yes, the Bible makes it quite clear that gay marriage is a sin. Now I have a question for you: are a divorced and remarried Christian couple openly living in permanent adultery if their original marriages were not linked to the “divorce exception clauses” in the Bible? And as a man who occasionally takes the pulpit, have you ever had the backbone to tackle this subject? (I bet you have for the gay marriage topic.)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Carter was a fine moral man, excluding the gay thing, but a disaster as President!

Sub’s kind of guy.

 

[DoctorDuck]

Carter was a fine moral man, excluding the gay thing, but a disaster as President!

Sub’s kind of guy.

Maybe you could address my post to @ALAYMAN since you were a vocational pastor and not a layman pastor. Did you treat people who divorced and remarried under unbiblical grounds the same as the gay issue? Did you tell such a couple that they’re living in perpetual adultery on a daily basis, or did we just turn a blind eye to the subject because you’d lose about 50% of your membership (and tithes)?

 

[Bruh]

Maybe you could address my post to @ALAYMAN since you were a vocational pastor and not a layman pastor. Did you treat people who divorced and remarried under unbiblical grounds the same as the gay issue? Did you tell such a couple that they’re living in perpetual adultery on a daily basis, or did we just turn a blind eye to the subject because you’d lose about 50% of your membership (and tithes)?

Gotta keep that money rolling in.

 

[DoctorDuck]

Gotta keep that money rolling in.

Some of these people who cry the loudest about gay marriage and various other “liberal causes” wouldn’t dare say boo to a Christian couple who got married after their first, God-ordained marriages fell apart and they got remarried against what the Bible clearly teaches. The truth is, probably half of these forum participants are living in adultery (according to the Bible, not me).

 

[Bruh]

Some of these people who cry the loudest about gay marriage and various other “liberal causes” wouldn’t dare say boo to a Christian couple who got married after their first, God-ordained marriages fell apart and they got remarried against what the Bible clearly teaches. The truth is, probably half of these forum participants are living in adultery (according to the Bible, not me).

We recently went to a IFB wedding. The pastor who officiated the wedding HAD to mention that marriage is between a man and a woman. Obviously, everyone attending agreed and had a hearty amen to follow.

Heard nothing about divorce and remarriage and how horrible this is and how you’re living in sin if remarried.

When he went on about a marriage is to be between a man and a woman, I was like…who are you trying to convince? as if there are IFB people here that would actually disagree. How brave of him!

 

[Ransom]

True, but he taught many principles directly related to such items.

And when teaching on marriage and divorce in Matthew 10, he taught the principle that the divine intent from the beginning was that marriage was a man and his wife. Not a man and another man, or two women, or a man with multiple women etc.

 

[Ransom]

What I’m asking is, why do you (and so many other Christians) have a double standard when it comes to the topic of homosexual marriage, but not divorce (and remarriage) by heterosexuals?

No. I'm quite against no-fault divorce.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Maybe you could address my post to @ALAYMAN since you were a vocational pastor and not a layman pastor. Did you treat people who divorced and remarried under unbiblical grounds the same as the gay issue? Did you tell such a couple that they’re living in perpetual adultery on a daily basis, or did we just turn a blind eye to the subject because you’d lose about 50% of your membership (and tithes)?

Maybe you could address my point abut his disaster of a presidency.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Some of these people who cry the loudest about gay marriage and various other “liberal causes” wouldn’t dare say boo to a Christian couple who got married after their first, God-ordained marriages fell apart and they got remarried against what the Bible clearly teaches. The truth is, probably half of these forum participants are living in adultery (according to the Bible, not me).

I was and still am against unbiblical divorce.
In 2 of a very few times we exercised church discipline, it was over such.
An unrepentant adulterous spouse.

 

[DoctorDuck]

And when teaching on marriage and divorce in Matthew 10, he taught the principle that the divine intent from the beginning was that marriage was a man and his wife. Not a man and another man, or two women, or a man with multiple women etc.

I agree. He also teaches that a man who marries a divorced woman is guilty of adultery.

 

[DoctorDuck]

I was and still am against unbiblical divorce.
In 2 of a very few times we exercised church discipline, it was over such.
An unrepentant adulterous spouse.

Great, but how did you approach divorced and then remarried men and women who took their vows under unbiblical circumstances. (In other words, one or both spouses left their previous marriage because they “just fell out of love” or “they just couldn’t get along anymore”). My guess is you never did.

 

[Ransom]

I agree. He also teaches that a man who marries a divorced woman is guilty of adultery.

Correct. And according to God-breathed Scripture, both adultery and homosexual relations are sins which the Law of Moses called worthy of death.

 

[biscuit1953]

DoctorDuck ​

Now I have a question for you: are a divorced and remarried Christian couple openly living in permanent adultery if their original marriages were not linked to the “divorce exception clauses” in the Bible?

Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

These verses in isolation sound absolute, that a man who divorces his wife causes her to commit adultery if she remarries. The question was could a man divorce his wife for any cause (Matt 19:3). In the ancient world, a man could send his wife away without giving her a lawful certificate of divorce. Basically, she was kicked out of the house without a place to live because she wasn't legally set free from the marriage so that she could then pursue a different relationship. It was double jeopardy for the woman, so Jesus was closing this legal loophole to protect women who were being exploited. Jesus wasn't condemning the abandoned woman trying to rebuild her life. He was condemning the man who wanted to discard her without accepting the covenantal and legal responsibility of releasing her legally. He wasn't forbidding biblical divorce. He was forbidding abusive pretend divorce. And that's a very different teaching from saying that every divorced Christian who remarries is living in perpetual adultery. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 describes a woman who is divorced, leaves her first husband's house, and becomes another man’s wife. Notice what the passage does not do. It does not condemn her. It does not call her second marriage adultery. It simply regulates what happens afterward.

When it comes to Christians who have remarried without a scriptural basis, it is a sin that should be confessed and repented of. But some sins of the past can’t be reconciled. Many have children involved in new marriages and its like putting Humpty Dumpty back together again. They should be faithful to the one they are currently married to. All they can do is put their past behind them and live for God going forward. When it comes to homosexuality, there is no complications because there never was a marriage to start with. To repent of sodomy is to simply ask forgiveness and turn from it. To justify homosexual behavior by comparing it to divorce is dishonest. Jimmy Carter knew exactly what the scriptures taught about sodomy, he simply lied about what Jesus taught.

 

[DoctorDuck]

Correct. And according to God-breathed Scripture, both adultery and homosexual relations are sins which the Law of Moses called worthy of death.

OK, seems harsh, but I’m not God. So the question becomes, why do preachers (particularly of the conservative types), have no issue drumming the beat against homosexuality and gay marriage, but would never dream of telling a man and woman that they’re in an unbiblical marriage (that is assuming their previous divorces weren’t based on the biblical exception clauses)?