“Little people belittle people. Great people make people feel great.” - Pastor Rick Warren (Double Hallelujah 
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Divorce: The Sin Preachers Nod & Wink At
- Thread starter DoctorDuck
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If you closely read the language that @ALAYMAN and @Tarheel Baptist are using in their posts, you’ll notice a lot of ambiguity and uncertainty about what the Bible says about the divorce/remarriage issue…a lot of human interpretation, rather than just taking God’s word as His WORD (not to mention the personal insults @Tarheel Baptist likes to toss in).I’d actually trust John MacAuthors view on divorce and remarriage. Perpetual sin and all that. Or something
I feel that I’ve sufficiently interacted with you on this topic and further correspondence won’t accomplish anything. Your fight on this topic is with God, not me.
Jesus also said this in Matthew 5:32:
Same statement except Matthew adds the exception clause. How do you reconcile them? Did Jesus change his mind? Did a scribe leave out the exception in Luke or did a scribe add it in Matthew? Did Luke leave it out because it wasn't important to the context of the passage? Did Matthew include it because it was important to the context of his passage?
Two witnesses can observe the same event and for various reasons add in or leave out details that the other witness doesn't.
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During your break we were talking about Kenny Baldwin. Of course, I don’t know but I think maybe just maybe you might have sided with my view.If you closely read the language that @ALAYMAN and @Tarheel Baptist are using in their posts, you’ll notice a lot of ambiguity and uncertainty about what the Bible says about the divorce/remarriage issue…a lot of human interpretation, rather than just taking God’s word as His WORD (not to mention the personal insults @Tarheel Baptist likes to toss in).
If you have time search it up and read thru it.
You have to do some digging and investigating to understand the context of this verse in Matthew.
The passage from Matthew 5 uses the Greek word porneia as an apparent exception to the ban on divorce, and that word is sometimes translated as “sexual immorality” or “impurity” or something similar. It does not, however, mean adultery.
Matthew was primarily writing for a Jewish audience. He was primarily referring to marriages that weren’t lawful to begin with, essentially meaning the parties were barred from marriage. The New American Bible translation states: “But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery” (5:32).
Again, many of you continue to confuse civil divorce and religious divorce. A state may recognize a marriage or divorce, but that doesn’t mean God does. We circle back now to the genesis of the thread: gay marriage and divorcees getting remarried. A state may recognize both, but God may recognize neither.
Finally, what should one do if s/he is divorced? One option is to live a celibate life with no remarriage. Another option is to not get divorced, but live separate lives while remaining married (with the hope of future reconciliation, of course).
I don’t know much about him other than he was an IFB type guest speaker at places like PCC. https://weartv.com/news/local/pensa...t-on-former-guest-speaker-pastor-now-arrested
It looks like the case is going to trial, but I can’t send the link to the story because it’s paid content.
Your argument was he shouldn’t be allowed in church again. Is that correct?
Maybe he’s connected to Hyles College?
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He shouldn’t be allowed to be a member. If convicted. Him or anyone else that is convicted of child sexual abuse.
We don’t need to bring that conversation into this thread. Just letting everyone know that
Is the part in the parentheses in any manuscript? (I don't know - just asking).
Matthew 5:32 - Compare All Versions - Bible App
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery...
www.bible.com
That didn't help answer the question other than to show none of the versions listed on that page had the parenthetical clause.Matthew 5:32 - Compare All Versions - Bible App
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery...www.bible.com
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Yes
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Given your more recent post to voicecrying about Jesus‘s red letter words, this may be the most ironic post of the day, lol.If you closely read the language that @ALAYMAN and @Tarheel Baptist are using in their posts, you’ll notice a lot of ambiguity and uncertainty about what the Bible says about the divorce/remarriage issue…a lot of human interpretation, rather than just taking God’s word as His WORD (not to mention the personal insults @Tarheel Baptist likes to toss in).
Why?
Maybe look at my post that discussed what the Greek word porneia means/doesn’t mean.
By the way, the IFB church I grew up in has never allowed a divorced man to be a church deacon or pastoral staff member. They are allowed to be ushers and Sunday school teachers. The reason for the divorce is irrelevant, just being divorced is cause enough.
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Interesting.
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How is adultery not sexual immorality?
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Yes. It's from παρεκτὸς λόγου πορνείας, which is usually translated "except for sexual immorality." Apparently, the rationale is that porneia excludes adultery, and so the (Catholic) translators are using a translation that means something that would have rendered the marriage unlawful to begin with, such as bigamy or consanguinity.
Problem is, porneia is a catch-all term for all sorts of sexual immorality: fornication, prostitution, incest, pornography, and so forth. It's a false exclusion to say it doesn't include adultery because adultery has its own word (moicheia). The same is true of all kinds of sexual immorality. (You wouldn't say the term "medicine" can't include aspirin because it has its own word!) And in any case, Paul also uses porneia in reference to an adulterous relationship (e.g. 1 Cor. 5:1).
You have to look at the Greek words used: Moicheia vs. Porneia. I’m going to copy/paste this for the sake of brevity:
Moicheia (μοιχείια / μοιχεία):
The specific Greek word for adultery. It strictly denotes a sexual act committed by someone—or with someone—who is bound in an active, valid marital covenant with another person (i.e., marital unfaithfulness).
Porneia (πορνεία):
A broader, more general term often translated as "sexual immorality" or "fornication". It acts as a wide umbrella term for various illicit or unlawful sexual acts outside the boundaries of a traditional marriage, which can include prostitution, premarital sex, incest, and spiritual idolatry. (It is also the linguistic root of the word pornography).
The Matthew 19:9 Exception Clause:
- In Matthew 19:9, Jesus states that divorcing one's wife and marrying another causes adultery (moichaō), “except for porneia” (often rendered as "except for sexual immorality").
- The "Premarital/Betrothal" View: Some interpreters (such as John Piper) argue that because Jesus used porneia instead of moicheia, the exception applies narrowly to sexual unfaithfulness/fornication that occurred during the Jewish betrothal period before the marriage was officially consummated.
- The "Broader Immorality" View: Many Protestant and evangelical scholars view porneia as a general term for sexual unfaithfulness that encompasses adultery and other severe sexual betrayals, making it a valid ground for divorce.
- The "Invalid Union / Annulment" View (Catholic Tradition): The Catholic Church and others argue that porneia refers to an illicit or unlawful union (such as incestuous relationships prohibited by Levitical law) rather than standard adultery within a valid marriage, meaning the initial union was null and void from the start (an annulment) rather than a divorce of a true marriage.