2018 Superbowl

[LongGone]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

 

[fishinnut]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

 

[LongGone]

Fly Eagles Fly! I believe I may live long enough to see my team win the Super Bowl.

You can worry about players that are exercising the right the constitution gives to free speech if you want but you are also boycotting a number of players including both Eagles quarterbacks who use the platform given them to express their faith and make a difference in the lives of others.

I'm sorry, but protesting at your job is not covered under "free speech".  But I agree I don't want to see expressions of faith, sexual orientation, etc. from players while they are at work.

I'm sorry but if your employer doesn't object it is covered under free speech.

Take some time and learn the Constitution.

https://menrec.com/fact-check-first-amendment-protect-nfl-players-kneeling-protests/

The players have the right to exercise their free speech. As an employer the NFL has the right to tell them that can not be employed and kneel during the anthem. If the NFL tells them they can not or they will be fired then they have the choice of whether being a player is more important to them or exercising their right to free speech at that particular time. They never loose the right to free speech.

I'm giving my opinion on this a bit late in the game [pardon the pun], but I just have not had the time to write down my thoughts.

It bothered me from the very beginning that a football player would "exercise free speech" by kneeling during the National Anthem. Personally, I'm amazed that the act is considered free speech at all.  Why not learn to write or create some art work that expresses emotion that others might find distasteful? I can't think of very many employees who would be allowed to sit down on the job and expect to be commended for it.  A postman? A teacher? A business owner who has religious convictions about being hired to create a wedding cake for a same sex wedding? The world is topsy turvy. I don't get it, but I'm just using my power of free speech to declare my thoughts. I'm happy for anyone else to do the same.

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

You raise good points, and I must admit that while my intelligence is most likely fairly average, I am at least smart enough to listen and read articles written by people who are probably more intelligent. I've always enjoyed Peggy Noonan's writing. The link below will take you to an interesting read on privacy and free speech.

http://www.peggynoonan.com/noonan-what-we-lose-if-we-give-up-privacy/

I am quite sure that the fact that my father was a veteran in World War II influences my thoughts on the subject of free speech and the flag.  I remember a conversation with a  man from my father's generation. He was Jewish and escaped Nazi Germany when he was a young boy. He came to this country with very little in his pocket, but worked hard and became known as an honest and very respected financial investor. He spoke eloquently and sincerely about what a great country we live in. He had tears in his eyes.

I get it. Not everyone feels that way, and they have a right to express it. I remember seeing an Islamic flag flying high in my neighborhood. It was close to an elementary school. If a person dared burn that flag, what would the consequences be?  I suspect there would be a large public outcry.

If it was a United States flag that was burned, would there be any consequences, or would we yawn because it has become common place?

Below is another link to an alarming trend. Former North Carolina governor, Pat McCrory is shown being shouted down by some in the LGBT community. I guess that's free speech, too?  I'm not sure it's what the founding fathers had in mind.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article128087744.html

My guess is that the founding fathers knew that free speech would not always be comfortable. I am of the opinion that more is accomplished with dialogue than shouting at people. Yet during the Civil Rights movement there was radical actions when the dialogue did not seem to be working.

The other thing I found interesting is we are talking about two different types of protests. The NFL player protest was quiet and orderly and while it may have upset people it did not disturb anyone or stop them for standing for the anthem. The LGBT was loud and discourteous.

I understand about what you are saying about your father being a vet. My dad was retired from the Navy. He passed in 1989 so I don't want to presume how he would have felt. I have two boys. One is an officer in the Army and the other is an officer in the Navy. The one currently in the Army had a tour in Afghanistan. The Navy one did two years in the Persian Gulf. They both feel that they serve to protect freedom of speech. I understand both sides but I do believe the actual freedom trumps the flag that represents it. Doesn't mean I don't love the flag and the country but they are great because of the freedom we are given.

 

[LongGone]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

 

[fishinnut]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WOHN3IqM8

 

[LongGone]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WOHN3IqM8

I respect you because of your service to our country but trying to have a reasonable conversation with you is like banging my head against the wall.  Once again show me one time when I said the NFL was vital to me.  Go back and you will see that I cared about two things in this conversation. The freedom of speech that the flag represents is more important than the flag (doesn't mean I don't love the flag or the anthem) and that some were exaggerating about the impact the boycott was having on the NFL.

 

[Jo]

Well, LongGone, all I can say is I respectfully disagree with you. I don't think it's free speech they exhibited by kneeling during the National Anthem, and I don't think our founding fathers would be pleased by the fact it's being called free speech.

I can honestly say, however, that I don't think HAC taught any of us to respectfully disagree.

 

[fishinnut]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WOHN3IqM8

I respect you because of your service to our country but trying to have a reasonable conversation with you is like banging my head against the wall.  Once again show me one time when I said the NFL was vital to me.  Go back and you will see that I cared about two things in this conversation. The freedom of speech that the flag represents is more important than the flag (doesn't mean I don't love the flag or the anthem) and that some were exaggerating about the impact the boycott was having on the NFL.

A reasonable conversation? Have you noticed my last couple of posts?

I just think you've turned into an opinionated liberal nutcase who keeps pounding the same drum beat & ad nauseam. So I've just posted to point it out.  :

 

[LongGone]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WOHN3IqM8

I respect you because of your service to our country but trying to have a reasonable conversation with you is like banging my head against the wall.  Once again show me one time when I said the NFL was vital to me.  Go back and you will see that I cared about two things in this conversation. The freedom of speech that the flag represents is more important than the flag (doesn't mean I don't love the flag or the anthem) and that some were exaggerating about the impact the boycott was having on the NFL.

A reasonable conversation? Have you noticed my last couple of posts?

I just think you've turned into an opinionated liberal nutcase who keeps pounding the same drum beat & ad nauseam. So I've just posted to point it out.  :

I just think you've continued to be an opinionated conservative nutcase who has a hard time having an reasonable conversation.  You also have a problem telling the truth since you have yet to point out where I said the NFL was vital to me.

 

[LongGone]

Well, LongGone, all I can say is I respectfully disagree with you. I don't think it's free speech they exhibited by kneeling during the National Anthem, and I don't think our founding fathers would be pleased by the fact it's being called free speech.

I can honestly say, however, that I don't think HAC taught any of us to respectfully disagree.

We can respectfully disagree.  If protesting social injustice is not a demonstration of free speech then what is demonstrated free speech?

George Washington said "If men are to be precluded from offering their sentiments on a matter, which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences that can invite to the consideration of mankind, reason is of no use to us; the freedom of speech may be taken away and the dumb and silent we may be lead like sheep to the slaughter.

Benjamin Franklin said "Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of free government. When this support is taken away the constitution of a free society is dissolved."

The Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; r abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

IMHO the Founding Fathers valued the freedom of speech and while they may not have agreed with how the NFL players demonstrated that freedom, they would have supported the right to express themselves. 

 

[fishinnut]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WOHN3IqM8

I respect you because of your service to our country but trying to have a reasonable conversation with you is like banging my head against the wall.  Once again show me one time when I said the NFL was vital to me.  Go back and you will see that I cared about two things in this conversation. The freedom of speech that the flag represents is more important than the flag (doesn't mean I don't love the flag or the anthem) and that some were exaggerating about the impact the boycott was having on the NFL.

A reasonable conversation? Have you noticed my last couple of posts?

I just think you've turned into an opinionated liberal nutcase who keeps pounding the same drum beat & ad nauseam. So I've just posted to point it out.  :

I just think you've continued to be an opinionated conservative nutcase who has a hard time having an reasonable conversation.  You also have a problem telling the truth since you have yet to point out where I said the NFL was vital to me.

Well maybe YOU did not use the word I did but ................you sure made sure we all know your every thought on NFL  players/protesters. So it appears that it is vital for you to continue to bore us with the same old same old justifications. I am sure you feel as a Philly fan you have a platform. 

And that is as close to a conversation as I'll get with you on this subject & only because of a senseless  accusation.

#Imstillboycottingthenfl

 

[Jo]

LG,

"Whether you?re for or against the Anthem protests, it should be clear to any rational person that this issue has nothing at all to do with ?free speech.? You don?t have free speech at your job. The idea that you have the right to say whatever you want while on your employer's dime is among the most asinine things I've heard in at least the last five minutes. Michael Bennett has no more ?right? to sit for the Anthem while wearing his Seahawks jersey than I?d have the right to get a job working the cash register at Walmart and then spend my shift hectoring the customers about the collapse of the nuclear family. I can do that with my current job because that is my current job. But even in a job where political speech is the whole job, I could still be fired if The Daily Wire decided that it no longer wanted to be a platform for my brand of blabbering."  - Matt Walsh

In my opinion, education is one of the things that is missing in this argument, and it is part of the reason I am frustrated over the issue.  If a person can read and write, they have power through their pen. A rapper has the right to complain about social injustice with his voice.  A football player who is making millions of dollars is not exactly Rosa Parks.

Even the courts have argued over the issue of what constitutes free speech. You act like there's no argument at all because you think you're right.

Supreme Court  http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does

 

 

[LongGone]

That is the beauty of free speech is that you and I don't get to tell someone else how to express it. I have said from the beginning that kneeling during the anthem would not likely be the way I would express myself but that doesn't change the right of someone else. I love the flag but the freedoms that the flag represents are far more important than the flag itself. If the NFL told employees that they could not kneel then the player would need to chose between that particular protest and their job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlEDdvund4w

If you have an opinion then give it. Otherwise why not let other people such as Jo and myself have a discussion. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?

Already gave mine & you continually offer up your flimsy explanations of why the NFL is so vital to you.

I enjoy the NFL but I would challenge you to show me one time that I said the NFL was vital to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WOHN3IqM8

I respect you because of your service to our country but trying to have a reasonable conversation with you is like banging my head against the wall.  Once again show me one time when I said the NFL was vital to me.  Go back and you will see that I cared about two things in this conversation. The freedom of speech that the flag represents is more important than the flag (doesn't mean I don't love the flag or the anthem) and that some were exaggerating about the impact the boycott was having on the NFL.

A reasonable conversation? Have you noticed my last couple of posts?

I just think you've turned into an opinionated liberal nutcase who keeps pounding the same drum beat & ad nauseam. So I've just posted to point it out.  :

I just think you've continued to be an opinionated conservative nutcase who has a hard time having an reasonable conversation.  You also have a problem telling the truth since you have yet to point out where I said the NFL was vital to me.

Well maybe YOU did not use the word I did but ................you sure made sure we all know your every thought on NFL  players/protesters. So it appears that it is vital for you to continue to bore us with the same old same old justifications. I am sure you feel as a Philly fan you have a platform. 

And that is as close to a conversation as I'll get with you on this subject & only because of a senseless  accusation.

#Imstillboycottingthenfl

Let's be honest. I did not start the conversation and responded to people when they responded. The other side which there were many more posters and posts it could also be argued they were just as boring with the same old justifications. Obviously you have a good idea what I would say so nobody was making you read my posts. If posters did not go back and forth (or to use your words...make sure you know your every thought) would there be a real reason to have a forum?

I am not sure what being a Philly fan has to do with the discussion.

The only senseless accusation that I saw was when you said the NFL was vital to me.

 

[LongGone]

LG,

"Whether you?re for or against the Anthem protests, it should be clear to any rational person that this issue has nothing at all to do with ?free speech.? You don?t have free speech at your job. The idea that you have the right to say whatever you want while on your employer's dime is among the most asinine things I've heard in at least the last five minutes. Michael Bennett has no more ?right? to sit for the Anthem while wearing his Seahawks jersey than I?d have the right to get a job working the cash register at Walmart and then spend my shift hectoring the customers about the collapse of the nuclear family. I can do that with my current job because that is my current job. But even in a job where political speech is the whole job, I could still be fired if The Daily Wire decided that it no longer wanted to be a platform for my brand of blabbering."  - Matt Walsh

In my opinion, education is one of the things that is missing in this argument, and it is part of the reason I am frustrated over the issue.  If a person can read and write, they have power through their pen. A rapper has the right to complain about social injustice with his voice.  A football player who is making millions of dollars is not exactly Rosa Parks.

Even the courts have argued over the issue of what constitutes free speech. You act like there's no argument at all because you think you're right.

Supreme Court  http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does

Jo,

I will respectfully disagree with you even if you are implying I am not a rational person I respectfully disagree with Matt
Walsh. If the NFL does not tell the player that they must stand for the anthem then they still have the right. The employer tells the employee if there are things they would say that would result in discipline. Even then the person still has their right to free speech but they must make the choice of that right or their job.

Interesting enough on the attachment you gave the first one that was mentioned under a persons right is the right to silence or the right not to salute the flag. Based on that the NFL could not make the players salute the flag. My guess is they could make them stay in the locker room.

IMHO the players could have written articles all day and not have the impact that they have on the field. They would never have been given the money from the NFL that they received by protesting publicly.

I would also argue that the issues today have a different slant than they did in the 60s.  Rosa Parks on the bus is not going to have the influence she had in the 60s or the influence football players have currently.

We both think we are right...that is why there is a discussion. If we didn't feel passionately about what we believe we would not bother to post. I do believe there is an argument and I understand both sides but why would I argue for the side I don't agree with?  I sure won't expect you to do that.

On the forum politically I tend to hold the minority opinion. I get called a lot of things and been told by one poster that I should leave the US. I sure that causes me to argue adamantly about what I believe because there are few of us here that would be non-conservatives. When I feel attacked I admit that I will dish it back. It doesn't mean that I think the person isn't entitled to their position but I want to make my point also.

Thank you for stating your belief,

Rich

 

[Recovering IFB]

You went through 32 pages on an old thread to count I had 3 interactions!?
Seems you are a tad obsessed, I wouldn?t go back 32 posts to check your interactions.

Yes, that's called being honest. I wanted to accurately portray what you were saying. I didn't want to paint a picture of something that wasn't true........does that ring a bell for you?

The Republican Party is my god?!

and the prophets Limabugh, Hannity and high priest Trump speaking the "holy words" from faux news

You constantly fling the Republicans are my/our gods. Your reaction to fishin?s original post intimates that his god is also not the true* god. Meaning* the god of recovery, North and Rushdoony.

I showed how "offended" you get when people attack the Republicans and their prophets, but when someone attacks the God of Scripture,..[crickets]

you have a worldview that has painted the enemy as winning the war, when in fact God has already won that war. your "hell in a handbasket" mentality/eschatology has made you quit and worship other gods, which you gleefully did.

I have no doubt but that God is sovereign and His will is being carried out.

No you don't, you wouldn't be pointing people to it, defending it or cheering for a pagan government and supporting its army of storm troopers. you would be seeking righteousness and justice from a  Biblical worldview 

I have no doubt that you also believe that...in a Reconstructionist  Biblical kind if way.

fixed it for ya'

And that singular verse from Psalms should serve to convert us all to Reconstructionist Biblical beliefs.
Why didn?t you quote it sooner?

single verse? many verses, many Psalms, many parables,many OT prophecies....do yourself a favor, pick up a book for once, and read up on it. and don't wimp out and read what one of your fellow evangelicals say about that, read first hand sources. that's the honest thing to do......

You went back to ?be honest? yet you completely missed the point...that I was actually defending what you said...I can?t be responsible for your lack of understanding.

You seem to be using the IFB tactics you denounce, using your innate gifts of judgement and omniscience...knowing better than I what I think, believe, feel and mean.
Except when you read thru 32 pages of posts and STILL totally miss the point!!!!

Fishing and I (plus a few others here, no doubt) need to know the god of slow recovery, North and Rushdoony.
Hallelujah! Let?s sing another verse of Battle Hymn of the Republic!

And when you don?t and can?t give a Biblical response to anything here or any other thread for that matter, the ad-hominems come flying....

I truly weep for the people you have fooled into thinking that you are a ?pastor?, if you really are one.
You keep pointing them to humanism and Christ, shame on you.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

You went through 32 pages on an old thread to count I had 3 interactions!?
Seems you are a tad obsessed, I wouldn?t go back 32 posts to check your interactions.

Yes, that's called being honest. I wanted to accurately portray what you were saying. I didn't want to paint a picture of something that wasn't true........does that ring a bell for you?

The Republican Party is my god?!

and the prophets Limabugh, Hannity and high priest Trump speaking the "holy words" from faux news

You constantly fling the Republicans are my/our gods. Your reaction to fishin?s original post intimates that his god is also not the true* god. Meaning* the god of recovery, North and Rushdoony.

I showed how "offended" you get when people attack the Republicans and their prophets, but when someone attacks the God of Scripture,..[crickets]

you have a worldview that has painted the enemy as winning the war, when in fact God has already won that war. your "hell in a handbasket" mentality/eschatology has made you quit and worship other gods, which you gleefully did.

I have no doubt but that God is sovereign and His will is being carried out.

No you don't, you wouldn't be pointing people to it, defending it or cheering for a pagan government and supporting its army of storm troopers. you would be seeking righteousness and justice from a  Biblical worldview 

I have no doubt that you also believe that...in a Reconstructionist  Biblical kind if way.

fixed it for ya'

And that singular verse from Psalms should serve to convert us all to Reconstructionist Biblical beliefs.
Why didn?t you quote it sooner?

single verse? many verses, many Psalms, many parables,many OT prophecies....do yourself a favor, pick up a book for once, and read up on it. and don't wimp out and read what one of your fellow evangelicals say about that, read first hand sources. that's the honest thing to do......

You went back to ?be honest? yet you completely missed the point...that I was actually defending what you said...I can?t be responsible for your lack of understanding.

You seem to be using the IFB tactics you denounce, using your innate gifts of judgement and omniscience...knowing better than I what I think, believe, feel and mean.
Except when you read thru 32 pages of posts and STILL totally miss the point!!!!

Fishing and I (plus a few others here, no doubt) need to know the god of slow recovery, North and Rushdoony.
Hallelujah! Let?s sing another verse of Battle Hymn of the Republic!

And when you don?t and can?t give a Biblical response to anything here or any other thread for that matter, the ad-hominems come flying....

I truly weep for the people you have fooled into thinking that you are a ?pastor?, if you really are one.
You keep pointing them to humanism and Christ, shame on you.

Again, you totally ignore the point that I was defending your position in the post that started this exchange....you attacked me for defending your position. 
Be patient with me....
I am working my way toward the gospel of s l o w recovery, North and Rushdoony.
I am also considering a petition to make Battle Hymn of the Republic our national anthem.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Again, you totally ignore the point that I was defending your position in the post that started this exchange....you attacked me for defending your position. 

  no, we were never coming from the same presuppositions, this is where you are mistaken. I am calling for the the Biblical order of things, you rely on pagan methods. I serve the God of Scripture, you serve the gods of Washington DC,....

Be patient with me....
I am working my way toward the gospel of s l o w recovery, North and Rushdoony.
I am also considering a petition to make Battle Hymn of the Republic our national anthem.

  What was that you use to say to Mater??      oh yeah, one trick pony...... "no king but Caesar"