A Billy Graham Bob Jones Might Be Proud Of.....

[Bob H]

"Bishop Gerald Kennedy in his book, God’s Good News, p.125, the blaspheming Bishop declares, "I believe the testimony of the New Testament taken as a whole is against the doctrine of the deity of Jesus."



But I guess it's all right that some yrs back he {Kennedy} chaired one of Billy's crusades and folks that came forward at the altar call were sent to his denomination. Ya know, it's alright to deny the deity and virgin birth of our Lord. It's not a "deal breaker". Ya, right. .................One day it will all come out in the wash and we'll see who's what.

Yes, "some years ago" equals exactly 50 years ago.  LOL. And "his denomination" was the United Methodist Church. Fifty years ago there were plenty of good UMC churches. (I saw the same David Cloud article but did a bit more research).

Graham made plenty of mistakes. His involvement with the NCC and WCC notably. Again, 40 and 50 years ago. Do people change their opinions over time? Are any of us comfortable with what we believed 50 years ago? I'm only 51 but I can say I'm not comfortable with everything I believed theologically 30 years ago...and I can say I think my heart was in the right place, even though I was wrong.

I'm not talking about opinions on last day events or Calvinism. We're talking the deity of Christ. He knew what the man believed. Heb. 6:4-6 comes to my mind.  And in the sixty's {and before} is when folks started leaving the UMC. It was gone then as well as now. That's when a lot of our older folk left and started this present church. Can a person deny the deity of Christ and still be saved? Is it not a fundamental of the faith?

 

[biscuit1953]

"Bishop Gerald Kennedy in his book, God’s Good News, p.125, the blaspheming Bishop declares, "I believe the testimony of the New Testament taken as a whole is against the doctrine of the deity of Jesus."



But I guess it's all right that some yrs back he {Kennedy} chaired one of Billy's crusades and folks that came forward at the altar call were sent to his denomination. Ya know, it's alright to deny the deity and virgin birth of our Lord. It's not a "deal breaker". Ya, right. .................One day it will all come out in the wash and we'll see who's what.

Yes, "some years ago" equals exactly 50 years ago.  LOL. And "his denomination" was the United Methodist Church. Fifty years ago there were plenty of good UMC churches. (I saw the same David Cloud article but did a bit more research).

Graham made plenty of mistakes. His involvement with the NCC and WCC notably. Again, 40 and 50 years ago. Do people change their opinions over time? Are any of us comfortable with what we believed 50 years ago? I'm only 51 but I can say I'm not comfortable with everything I believed theologically 30 years ago...and I can say I think my heart was in the right place, even though I was wrong.

I'm not talking about opinions on last day events or Calvinism. We're talking the deity of Christ. He knew what the man believed. Heb. 6:4-6 comes to my mind.  And in the sixty's {and before} is when folks started leaving the UMC. It was gone then as well as now. That's when a lot of our older folk left and started this present church. Can a person deny the deity of Christ and still be saved? Is it not a fundamental of the faith?

No a person can't deny the deity of Christ and still be saved and yes it is a fundamental of the faith.  But if you take a snapshot of your life (you will answer for every word) I guarantee that you have said things that you shouldn't have and if I took that one statement from sometime in your history I could "prove" you are on your way to hell.

I could take a snapshot of Lot and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was never saved but we know according to scripture that our "judging" was in error.

I could look at the time the apostle Peter denied his Lord not once but three times and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was not a true believer. 

Billy Graham has preached the gospel (not a false gospel) for many years and to take something he said and judge his whole ministry or make a judgment as to whether he is truly saved or not is nothing more than some Pharisee trying to show how much more spiritual he is than someone else.  Many people have come to saving faith during his crusades and even though some of the methods he used may not agree with everyone including myself, to stick one's nose in the air and imply he is a false prophet of some sort because he made an error in an interview which is not indicative of his life's work is pathetic.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Yes, "some years ago" equals exactly 50 years ago.  LOL. And "his denomination" was the United Methodist Church. Fifty years ago there were plenty of good UMC churches. (I saw the same David Cloud article but did a bit more research).

Graham made plenty of mistakes. His involvement with the NCC and WCC notably. Again, 40 and 50 years ago. Do people change their opinions over time? Are any of us comfortable with what we believed 50 years ago? I'm only 51 but I can say I'm not comfortable with everything I believed theologically 30 years ago...and I can say I think my heart was in the right place, even though I was wrong.

Two things.  At the point when he sent new converts back into apostate churches should he have known better than to do that? Secondly, when a person holds a national or international Christian platform (as Hyles self-professed to have) wouldn't it be prudent for him at some point in his ministry to address those serious mistakes of his ministry?

 

[ALAYMAN]

No a person can't deny the deity of Christ and still be saved and yes it is a fundamental of the faith.  But if you take a snapshot of your life (you will answer for every word) I guarantee that you have said things that you shouldn't have and if I took that one statement from sometime in your history I could "prove" you are on your way to hell.

I could take a snapshot of Lot and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was never saved but we know according to scripture that our "judging" was in error.

I could look at the time the apostle Peter denied his Lord not once but three times and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was not a true believer. 

Billy Graham has preached the gospel (not a false gospel) for many years and to take something he said and judge his whole ministry or make a judgment as to whether he is truly saved or not is nothing more than some Pharisee trying to show how much more spiritual he is than someone else.  Many people have come to saving faith during his crusades and even though some of the methods he used may not agree with everyone including myself, to stick one's nose in the air and imply he is a false prophet of some sort because he made an error in an interview which is not indicative of his life's work is pathetic.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Bob's point wasn't so much as to question Bishop Kennedy's salvation as it was to critique Graham's propensity to send new converts back into churches that would stunt their Christian growth.

 

[biscuit1953]

No a person can't deny the deity of Christ and still be saved and yes it is a fundamental of the faith.  But if you take a snapshot of your life (you will answer for every word) I guarantee that you have said things that you shouldn't have and if I took that one statement from sometime in your history I could "prove" you are on your way to hell.

I could take a snapshot of Lot and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was never saved but we know according to scripture that our "judging" was in error.

I could look at the time the apostle Peter denied his Lord not once but three times and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was not a true believer. 

Billy Graham has preached the gospel (not a false gospel) for many years and to take something he said and judge his whole ministry or make a judgment as to whether he is truly saved or not is nothing more than some Pharisee trying to show how much more spiritual he is than someone else.  Many people have come to saving faith during his crusades and even though some of the methods he used may not agree with everyone including myself, to stick one's nose in the air and imply he is a false prophet of some sort because he made an error in an interview which is not indicative of his life's work is pathetic.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Bob's point wasn't so much as to question Bishop Kennedy's salvation as it was to critique Graham's propensity to send new converts back into churches that would stunt their Christian growth.

I can understand how some of his associations and methods during his crusades can cause serious concerns but I still remember listening to a sermon by Jack wood on "Ten Reasons Why Billy Graham is Going to Hell."  At least Billy Graham wasn't a serial pedophile his entire adult life or lived a secret life (as far as I know) that would indicate he never knew what saving grace is. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I can understand how some of his associations and methods during his crusades can cause serious concerns but I still remember listening to a sermon by Jack wood on "Ten Reasons Why Billy Graham is Going to Hell."  At least Billy Graham wasn't a serial pedophile his entire adult life or lived a secret life (as far as I know) that would indicate he never knew what saving grace is.

I know there are idiots out there, but Bob ain't one of them, though I'll leave his loyalty to Michigan Football out that analysis and assessement .  He simply wasn't saying Billy was lost.  And to say "at least Billy wasn't...." is to essentially say that so long as he ain't a fundy sycophant that anything he did looks better in comparison.  As true as that is, Bob is holding him to a standard that is a fair judgment, and that being when you have such an incredibly visible and nearly universal platform/ministry then you ought to accept legitimate criticism along with due praise.