A Neurosurgeon's Proof of an Immortal Soul

[Ekklesian]

Does the brain explain the mind completely?

 

[biscuit1953]

There are many documented cases of dying patients at the brink of death who never quite crossed over to the other side but who remember everything going on at the scene while being worked on. There is no scientific explanation as to why this is possible unless their spirit was actually temporarily conscious outside their bodies. Dr. Maurice Rawlings was a heart surgeon who worked at Chattanooga, TN who was an atheist but became a strong believer in Jesus Christ after witnessing a terrifying near death experience of someone he was working on in his office. He observed many dying patients who were resuscitated with good and bad experiences. He talked of one terrifying experience of someone who had tried to kill himself experiencing visions of being in torment. Dr. Rawlings asked him if he wanted to live and the patient desperately said he did but sadly passed away. Dr. Rawlings said he had never attempted to bring back a suicide patient who had a good experience. That doesn’t mean everyone who commits suicide goes to hell but it is sobering to hear that from someone who had extensive experiences with NDE’s.

While many of the stories on the internet are undoubtedly made up, I believe there are many that are true who said they thought they were Christians and on their way to heaven only to find themselves at the brink of death staring hell in the face. Of course, the Bible is the only authoritative source of what happens after death but Jesus made it clear that there will be “many” who did “many wonderful works in His name” that will be told , “I never knew you.” The apostle Paul told those in the Corinthian church that they should examine themselves as to whether they were in the faith except they be reprobates (2 Cor 13:5). “You can be as straight as a gun barrel theologically, but as empty as a gun barrel spiritually.” Vance Havner

It is possible for someone to be a church member in an orthodox Christian church who is religious but has never been born again with new desires to live for Christ which is the situation I was in until I was eighteen years old. Jesus came to save His people from their sins, not a bad marriage, financial ruin, self-esteem, or other things of that nature.

In 2008 someone gave a Gideon NT to Penn Jillette after a show who is so committed to Atheism that he crosses the word “God” off every dollar bill he touches. This is what he said:

“It was really wonderful, I believe he knew that I was an atheist, but he was not defensive, and he looked me right in the eyes...and then gave me this Bible. I’ve always said that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe there is a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward. “How much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate someone to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?”

He went on to say, "If I believed, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a truck was coming at you, and you didn’t believe it, that that truck was bearing down on you, there’s a certain point that I tackle you, and this is more important than that.” “This guy was a really good guy. He was polite, honest, and sane, and he cared enough about me to proselytize and give me a Bible.”

Here is a video from a hospice nurse from Tuscaloosa Alabama who gives a personal testimony of many of the hundreds of patients she was present with as they passed into eternity.

 

[Ransom]

As I've said before, the key word in "near death experience" is "near."

Nearly dead isn't dead, and there's no way to verify that whatever the person saw was a genuine experience of the afterlife.

 

[biscuit1953]

As I've said before, the key word in "near death experience" is "near."

Nearly dead isn't dead, and there's no way to verify that whatever the person saw was a genuine experience of the afterlife.

I agree. I might add though that many accounts have been verified as to the unconscious patients having full knowledge of what was going on around them.

 

[Ransom]

I agree. I might add though that many accounts have been verified as to the unconscious patients having full knowledge of what was going on around them.

And there is also experimental data where doctors have hidden objects where they could only be seen by someone whose consciousness has left their body on the operating table, and the subjects didn't see them. Suggesting that "what was going on around them" was not real.

 

[biscuit1953]

And there is also experimental data where doctors have hidden objects where they could only be seen by someone whose consciousness has left their body on the operating table, and the subjects didn't see them. Suggesting that "what was going on around them" was not real.

While that may be true many accounts have been verified with no explanation possible for the clinically dead patients knowing in detail what took place while they were in a coma.

 

[Ekklesian]

His talk about NDEs is really about out-of-body experiences, and is only a small part of the discussion.

The video is cued to a woman's experience who observed her own aneuryism surgery and could describe the specialist's custom-made instruments and his procedures in detail, and could relate the conversations being had...all with no brain activity whatever.

 

[Ransom]

While that may be true many accounts have been verified with no explanation possible for the clinically dead patients knowing in detail what took place while they were in a coma.

Maybe they weren't in as much of a coma as was assumed.

Look up Martin Pistorius and "locked-in syndrome"--a condition in which one is aware but unable to move or communicate. Pistorius was assumed to be in a vegetative state for a decade, though in fact he regained consciousness after a few years, and for the next seven years he was conscious and aware of conversations family were having by his bedside.

 

[biscuit1953]

Maybe they weren't in as much of a coma as was assumed.

Look up Martin Pistorius and "locked-in syndrome"--a condition in which one is aware but unable to move or communicate. Pistorius was assumed to be in a vegetative state for a decade, though in fact he regained consciousness after a few years, and for the next seven years he was conscious and aware of conversations family were having by his bedside.

I think we both agree that the scriptures are the final authority. There is no need to go back and forth on this other than to say that I have read of many verified cases where the scenerio you present can't explain what took place. Here are a couple of examples by Dr. Gary Habermas a research professor at Liberty University. I forgot to give the link.

 

[Ransom]

Here are a couple of examples by Dr. Gary Habermas a research professor at Liberty University.

"This woman"? "A guy"? Not only anecdotal evidence, but anonymous anecdotal evidence--for which Habermas even admits he's inventing details. These aren't "verified cases." They are unverifiable. It doesn't rise to the level of evidence.

 

[subllibrm]

"This woman"? "A guy"? Not only anecdotal evidence, but anonymous anecdotal evidence--for which Habermas even admits he's inventing details. These aren't "verified cases." They are unverifiable. It doesn't rise to the level of evidence.

A guy I work with said that his cousin's next door neighbor had a brother in law who had the same experience.

 

[Ekklesian]

The point Egnor is that the brain cannot explain consciousness or the mind. He speaks of patients of his who are missing key parts of the brain, and are functioning normally, gifted even.

He describes conjoined twins who share a brain. They have different personalities, thoughts, and even disagreements.

He talks very little about NDEs, and the primary one he does share isn't about her seeing loved ones who've passed on, but about her conscious awareness, even hyper awareness, though she had no brain activity whatever.

 

[Ekklesian]