A question on grace

[Foghorn]

This is a question asked elsewhere, but it's such a great question I have to post it here. Here it is.


Please take some time to think about your answer before you just shoot it off half-cocked. Here goes.

Scripture says we are saved by grace. How does grace save us, ie. God just regenerates? Is it really grace that does the work? Or is it just a decision by God that sets everything else in motion? If it is just a decision, what are the steps for our salvation to be completed?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Depends on the extent of your view of monergism and synergism.

 

[Bob Jones V]

This is a question asked elsewhere, but it's such a great question I have to post it here. Here it is.


Please take some time to think about your answer before you just shoot it off half-cocked. Here goes.

Scripture says we are saved by grace. How does grace save us, ie. God just regenerates? Is it really grace that does the work? Or is it just a decision by God that sets everything else in motion? If it is just a decision, what are the steps for our salvation to be completed?

Grace is the overflow of God's self-sufficiency (Piper), although many define it as unmerited kindness or favor, both true. Grace does not actually save us. But God saves us by grace. He saves us when we do not deserve it. He elects us in eternity past Ephesians 1:4 (even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love), then he regenerates us (John 3:3), then he calls us and then he justifies us and glorifies us. The whole process is called salvation.

Romans 8
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

[abcaines]

This is no half cocked answer: it is something I continually ponder...

We've all heard the acrostic: God's Riches At Christ's Expense. However, that is at best, a 10¢ theology missive that does a poor job of describing a very deep concept.

Grace being described as "not getting what we deserve but getting what we don't deserve" is a little better.

The word grace (as we use it) comes from two concepts: beauty and free. I believe God's grace embodies both.

Grace is free. We read in Romans where we don't earn our salvation otherwise, our salvation is merely wages. At this point my mind goes to eating in a restaurant: we typically tip our server. That is called a gratuity... descended from the same word we get grace. However, some restaurants change a mandatory "gratuity" but then, it's not a gratuity, it's a fee. In the same way, if our salvation is by grace, it comes by way of the free will of the Giver, not of compulsion from Him.

On the side of beauty, the grace we receive works a wonderful transformation in us whereby we further cling to our Lord. I shared earlier about the grace we found when Mrs. abcaines was found to have breast cancer 10 years ago. That was in line with the grace that Paul described in 2 Corinthians when he was told in the face of his thorn in the flesh, "My grace is sufficient for thee..." It also shirttails with Titus chapter 2; grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts...

So, grace is not only mercy from God of His own free choice but it is also the means by which we are borne along in His life. It is inextricably linked to the faith He gifts us with... He gives us a faith to trust His grace which also is His free gift.

 

[ALAYMAN]

This is no half cocked answer: it is something I continually ponder...

We've all heard the acrostic: God's Riches At Christ's Expense. However, that is at best, a 10¢ theology missive that does a poor job of describing a very deep concept.

Grace being described as "not getting what we deserve but getting what we don't deserve" is a little better.

The word grace (as we use it) comes from two concepts: beauty and free. I believe God's grace embodies both.

Grace is free. We read in Romans where we don't earn our salvation otherwise, our salvation is merely wages. At this point my mind goes to eating in a restaurant: we typically tip our server. That is called a gratuity... descended from the same word we get grace. However, some restaurants change a mandatory "gratuity" but then, it's not a gratuity, it's a fee. In the same way, if our salvation is by grace, it comes by way of the free will of the Giver, not of compulsion from Him.

On the side of beauty, the grace we receive works a wonderful transformation in us whereby we further cling to our Lord. I shared earlier about the grace we found when Mrs. abcaines was found to have breast cancer 10 years ago. That was in line with the grace that Paul described in 2 Corinthians when he was told in the face of his thorn in the flesh, "My grace is sufficient for thee..." It also shirttails with Titus chapter 2; grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts...

So, grace is not only mercy from God of His own free choice but it is also the means by which we are borne along in His life. It is inextricably linked to the faith He gifts us with... He gives us a faith to trust His grace which also is His free gift.

Excellent!

Piper put it equivalently like this...

It is incredibly encouraging that God’s grace is both the inclination of the divine heart to treat us better than we deserve and is the extension of that inclination in practical help. LINK

 

[abcaines]

Excellent!

Piper put it equivalently like this...

Yup. That comes from his book, Living by Faith in Future Grace. A book that transformed my view of grace and started me on my current obsession with grace.

Another great book on the subject is Chuck Smith's Why Grace Changes Everything.

 

[Foghorn]

Depends on the extent of your view of monergism and synergism.

Well sure. But the answers to my questions still need an answer. I’ve seen different understandings on how monergism or synergism works. In many cases the understanding on monergism don’t quite measure up as defined

 

[Foghorn]

Grace is the overflow of God's self-sufficiency (Piper), although many define it as unmerited kindness or favor, both true. Grace does not actually save us. But God saves us by grace. He saves us when we do not deserve it. He elects us in eternity past Ephesians 1:4 (even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love), then he regenerates us (John 3:3), then he calls us and then he justifies us and glorifies us. The whole process is called salvation.

Romans 8
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Wow!
Nicely put! I agree.

One question though. You seems to say God regenerates us, then calls us?

Am I understanding correctly? Would you explain?
Thanks

 

[Foghorn]

This is no half cocked answer: it is something I continually ponder...

We've all heard the acrostic: God's Riches At Christ's Expense. However, that is at best, a 10¢ theology missive that does a poor job of describing a very deep concept.

Grace being described as "not getting what we deserve but getting what we don't deserve" is a little better.

The word grace (as we use it) comes from two concepts: beauty and free. I believe God's grace embodies both.

Grace is free. We read in Romans where we don't earn our salvation otherwise, our salvation is merely wages. At this point my mind goes to eating in a restaurant: we typically tip our server. That is called a gratuity... descended from the same word we get grace. However, some restaurants change a mandatory "gratuity" but then, it's not a gratuity, it's a fee. In the same way, if our salvation is by grace, it comes by way of the free will of the Giver, not of compulsion from Him.

On the side of beauty, the grace we receive works a wonderful transformation in us whereby we further cling to our Lord. I shared earlier about the grace we found when Mrs. abcaines was found to have breast cancer 10 years ago. That was in line with the grace that Paul described in 2 Corinthians when he was told in the face of his thorn in the flesh, "My grace is sufficient for thee..." It also shirttails with Titus chapter 2; grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts...

So, grace is not only mercy from God of His own free choice but it is also the means by which we are borne along in His life. It is inextricably linked to the faith He gifts us with... He gives us a faith to trust His grace which also is His free gift.

Nice!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Well sure. But the answers to my questions still need an answer. I’ve seen different understandings on how monergism or synergism works. In many cases the understanding on monergism don’t quite measure up as defined

I like Spurgeon on the matter...

“First, then, DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AS EXEMPLIFIED IN SALVATION. If any man be saved, he is saved by divine grace and by divine grace alone; the reason of his salvation is not to be found in him, but in God. We are not saved as the result of anything that we do or that we will, but we will and do as the result of God’s good pleasure and the work of His grace in our hearts. No sinner can prevent God; that is, he cannot go before Him, cannot anticipate Him. God is always first in the matter of salvation. He is before our convictions, before our desires, before our fears, and before our hopes. All that is good or ever will be good in us is preceded by the grace of God and is the effect of a divine cause within.”

To answer your OP questions a little more specifically, no, God doesn't just regenerate a soul that sets things in motion. Jonah said it well, salvation is of the Lord. It is His grace that draws us, regenerates us, sanctifies us, and ultimately His grace glorifies us. I am not a Calvinist, I believe in a form of synergism, namely that the grace of God enables the believer by His grace to cooperate with the Spirit in sanctification.

 

[Foghorn]

I like Spurgeon on the matter...

“First, then, DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AS EXEMPLIFIED IN SALVATION. If any man be saved, he is saved by divine grace and by divine grace alone; the reason of his salvation is not to be found in him, but in God. We are not saved as the result of anything that we do or that we will, but we will and do as the result of God’s good pleasure and the work of His grace in our hearts. No sinner can prevent God; that is, he cannot go before Him, cannot anticipate Him. God is always first in the matter of salvation. He is before our convictions, before our desires, before our fears, and before our hopes. All that is good or ever will be good in us is preceded by the grace of God and is the effect of a divine cause within.”

To answer your OP questions a little more specifically, no, God doesn't just regenerate a soul that sets things in motion. Jonah said it well, salvation is of the Lord. It is His grace that draws us, regenerates us, sanctifies us, and ultimately His grace glorifies us. I am not a Calvinist, I believe in a form of synergism, namely that the grace of God enables the believer by His grace to cooperate with the Spirit in sanctification.

Thanks

 

[Bob Jones V]

Wow!
Nicely put! I agree.

One question though. You seems to say God regenerates us, then calls us?

Am I understanding correctly? Would you explain?
Thanks

Yes, I am one of the known Calvinists. I believe that God regenerates us then calls us efficaciously, then we believe. I am only so frank abut it because so many of us here have discussed this for years and we respect that others might believe that faith comes before regeneration.

 

[Gringo]

Yes, I am one of the known Calvinists. I believe that God regenerates us then calls us efficaciously, then we believe. I am only so frank abut it because so many of us here have discussed this for years and we respect that others might believe that faith comes before regeneration.

.
This would explain alot.
.

 

[Ekklesian]

Is it really grace that does the work? Or is it just a decision by God that sets everything else in motion? If it is just a decision, what are the steps for our salvation to be completed?

It's a Person who does the work. This Person is the author AND finisher of our faith. He begins the work of grace in us, and He brings it to completion. This is our confidence.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: - Philippians 1:6

 

[Baptist Renegade]

This is a question asked elsewhere, but it's such a great question I have to post it here. Here it is.


Please take some time to think about your answer before you just shoot it off half-cocked. Here goes.

Scripture says we are saved by grace. How does grace save us, ie. God just regenerates? Is it really grace that does the work? Or is it just a decision by God that sets everything else in motion? If it is just a decision, what are the steps for our salvation to be completed?

Our salvation is ALL OF GRACE!

Grace is unmerited favor and therefore absolutely nothing that we bring to the table!

All of grace, all of Christ and NONE OF US!

God does not give us his grace because we "decide" to accept it! God saves us by his grace and we accept it like a newborn babe takes his first breath of air (Eph 2:1-10).

 

[Bob Jones V]

.
This would explain alot.
.

Now you have me in a box.

 

[Gringo]

Now you have me in a box.

.
What do you mean?
.

 

[Bob Jones V]

.
What do you mean?
.

When I say I am a Calvinist, and you say "That explains a lot," it tends to indicate that me being a calvinist puts me in a box that is called Calvinist, and once I am in that box, you can determine how I would answer or explain any question. You've boxed me in, you've figured me out.

 

[Gringo]

"God regenerates us then calls us efficaciously, then we believe. "

.
When I said "this would explain alot", I was referring to my own perdicament, not you. I was referring to the fact that God apparently chose not to regenerate me and that would be why I don't believe since belief comes after regeneration. While I don't believe any of it, if it were to be true, it's obvious that I am not one of the elect. That's all I was saying.

And I believe the reason I am not one of the elect is because God, in his foreknowledge, knew that I would be one of those characters in Romans 1, of whom he turned his back and of whom is described in I Cor 6:9. And despite the fact that those days are long behind me, He must have turned his back on me at that time - never to return.

I suppose.
.

 

[Bob Jones V]

"God regenerates us then calls us efficaciously, then we believe. "

.
When I said "this would explain alot", I was referring to my own perdicament, not you. I was referring to the fact that God apparently chose not to regenerate me and that would be why I don't believe since belief comes after regeneration. While I don't believe any of it, if it were to be true, it's obvious that I am not one of the elect. That's all I was saying.

And I believe the reason I am not one of the elect is because God, in his foreknowledge, knew that I would be one of those characters in Romans 1, of whom he turned his back and of whom is described in I Cor 6:9. And despite the fact that those days are long behind me, He must have turned his back on me at that time - never to return.

I suppose.
.

Oh, I see. But you don't know if you are one of the elect, not yet. It just may not be your time yet to believe. I have prayed for you. Paul the Apostle killed Christians, and then God regenerated him. You've not killed any Christians, I hope. So you've still got hope.