Abortion

Tarheel Baptist

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Smellin Coffee said:
T-Bone said:
Smellin Coffee said:
T-Bone said:
LongGone said:
T-Bone said:
LongGone said:
Ransom said:
LongGone said:
I do think Republicans need to be careful about not funding Planned Parenthood. As this shows us the cause and effect do not always work the way that one would think.

I'm fairly sure the "cause and effect" does not go "increased Planned Parenthood funding leads to fewer abortions." That may be correlation, but it's not causation.

Preventing unwanted pregnancies could realistically reduce the number of abortions.

I am hoping you are not inferring that abortion is a legitimate form of birth control...but let me add, that stopping the government both promoting and paying for abortions would definitely reduce the number of abortions.

I am not sure how you thought I was inferring that abortion if a legitimate form of birth control. How is government paying or even promoting abortions since they are not a covered service under Medicaid?

You are not that na?ve...when they fund PP and other abortion providers, they are funding abortion.

The issue isn't the funding of PP shouldn't be allowed but rather the Hyde Amendment should be better enforced. To get rid of PP altogether will increase abortion rates as well as restrict health care to women and infants, particularly the poorest. Just like repealing the ACA which offers coverage for infants (or should offer), these things actually reduce abortions, knowing that infants of poor mothers can be medically taken care of. I'm absolutely for other alternatives that will decrease the abortion rate and be a medical provider for other women's services for cheap/free so don't think this is about defending PP itself.

If you can get rid of PP and provide care and coverage for poor mothers and children without abortion services, we need to do it. But don't get rid of PP without such a service in place or the abortion rates will begin to rise again. Crisis pregnancy centers are a great alternative but they aren't adequately funded to handle the volume of services that need to be rendered.

Actually, there are plenty of providers for women's health...it is a misnomer to say that PP is necessary or women cannot get help.  There is an agenda of death that will never allow PP to be defunded. We don't have to promote the killing of the innocent to provide care for people.

Being a "provider" and an "affordable provider" are two different things. Take away PP and ACA and you will see abortions start rising again.

Yes!
And whatever you do...dont break a mirror!
 

LongGone

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T-Bone said:
LongGone said:
T-Bone said:
LongGone said:
Ransom said:
LongGone said:
I do think Republicans need to be careful about not funding Planned Parenthood. As this shows us the cause and effect do not always work the way that one would think.

I'm fairly sure the "cause and effect" does not go "increased Planned Parenthood funding leads to fewer abortions." That may be correlation, but it's not causation.

Preventing unwanted pregnancies could realistically reduce the number of abortions.

I am hoping you are not inferring that abortion is a legitimate form of birth control...but let me add, that stopping the government both promoting and paying for abortions would definitely reduce the number of abortions.

I am not sure how you thought I was inferring that abortion if a legitimate form of birth control. How is government paying or even promoting abortions since they are not a covered service under Medicaid?

You are not that na?ve...when they fund PP and other abortion providers, they are funding abortion.

If I want an abortion (not actually possible for a 60 year old man) how do I get the government to pay for it? The fact the Planned Parenthood provides multiple services does not mean that the government is paying for abortions. You can hate abortion but it doesn't give you the right to distort the facts.
 

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subllibrm said:
The local grocery store regularly sells milk for less than cost. This is called a "loss leader" in marketing. The idea is to get you into the store so that you will buy the items that have a profitable markup.

Planned parenthood is using "women's health care" as their loss leader. Get them in the door with free inoculations (which are also available at the county health department), free exams (which are also available at the county health department),  free wellness checks (which are also available at the county health department), free pregnancy tests (which are also available at the county health department) but can't come up with the resources for free abortions. Those you have to pay for missy.

PP is the ultimate bait & switch scam.

Then according to your logic abortions should be going up or the bait and switch scam is working very well.
 

subllibrm

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LongGone said:
subllibrm said:
The local grocery store regularly sells milk for less than cost. This is called a "loss leader" in marketing. The idea is to get you into the store so that you will buy the items that have a profitable markup.

Planned parenthood is using "women's health care" as their loss leader. Get them in the door with free inoculations (which are also available at the county health department), free exams (which are also available at the county health department),  free wellness checks (which are also available at the county health department), free pregnancy tests (which are also available at the county health department) but can't come up with the resources for free abortions. Those you have to pay for missy.

PP is the ultimate bait & switch scam.

Then according to your logic abortions should be going up or the bait and switch scam is working very well.

Surgical abortions are being replaced with "morning after" abortions.
 

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Guttmacher Institute, affiliated with Planned Parenthood developed this statistic. There is no third party peer review of this study. I believe the books have been cooked.

Since Planned Parenthood makes huge profits on the sale of baby parts, any internal "study" that suggests abortion rates have declined needs to be viewed as a curious oddity before accepted.


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prophet

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FSSL said:
Guttmacher Institute, affiliated with Planned Parenthood developed this statistic. There is no third party peer review of this study. I believe the books have been cooked.

Since Planned Parenthood makes huge profits on the sale of baby parts, any internal "study" that suggests abortion rates have declined needs to be viewed as a curious oddity before accepted.


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From Guttmacher.org, January 2015:

During the 2014 state legislative session, lawmakers introduced 335 provisions aimed at restricting access to abortion. By the end of the year, 15 states had enacted 26 new abortion restrictions. Including these new provisions, states have adopted 231 new abortion restrictions since the 2010 midterm elections swept abortion opponents into power in state capitals across the country.
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Hard not to see a correlation between increased restrictions and fewer abortions. 

Link: https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2015/01/just-last-four-years-states-have-enacted-231-abortion-restrictions
 

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Least of These said:
From Guttmacher.org, January 2015:

During the 2014 state legislative session, lawmakers introduced 335 provisions aimed at restricting access to abortion. By the end of the year, 15 states had enacted 26 new abortion restrictions. Including these new provisions, states have adopted 231 new abortion restrictions since the 2010 midterm elections swept abortion opponents into power in state capitals across the country.
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Hard not to see a correlation between increased restrictions and fewer abortions. 

Link: https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2015/01/just-last-four-years-states-have-enacted-231-abortion-restrictions

Then it would seem hard to give the credit for any decline to PP or Mr. Obama.
 

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FSSL said:
Guttmacher Institute, affiliated with Planned Parenthood developed this statistic. There is no third party peer review of this study. I believe the books have been cooked.

Since Planned Parenthood makes huge profits on the sale of baby parts, any internal "study" that suggests abortion rates have declined needs to be viewed as a curious oddity before accepted.


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You are correct the Guttmacher Institute although now independent was at one time part of Planned Parenthood. Other than you believe the books were cooked why is a more conservative organization not reviewing and challenging the findings.

Your claim that Planned Parenthood makes money selling baby parts is bogus.
 

LongGone

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subllibrm said:
Least of These said:
From Guttmacher.org, January 2015:

During the 2014 state legislative session, lawmakers introduced 335 provisions aimed at restricting access to abortion. By the end of the year, 15 states had enacted 26 new abortion restrictions. Including these new provisions, states have adopted 231 new abortion restrictions since the 2010 midterm elections swept abortion opponents into power in state capitals across the country.
----------------

Hard not to see a correlation between increased restrictions and fewer abortions. 

Link: https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2015/01/just-last-four-years-states-have-enacted-231-abortion-restrictions

Then it would seem hard to give the credit for any decline to PP or Mr. Obama.

If you go back and look at article by Gottmacher that Smellin copied it actually credits ACA with the reduction. Gottmacher also stated in release on January 17th that Improvements in contraceptive use are likely contributing o the decline but punitive abortion restrictions may also be a factor.

It was be reasonable to think that all had a impact.
 

FSSL

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How many baby parts does it take to buy a Lamborghini?


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When President Trump was running as a candidate many including some on this forum had great doubts as to his sincerity on the things he ran on.  He had given thousands of dollars to liberal Democrats including Hillary Clinton and many thought once he became president his true colors of being a big liberal Democrat on social issues would come out.  However, in his inauguration speech he doubled down on most of the promises he ran on and gave a refreshing speech excoriating the establishment of both parties. 

Pastor Robert Jeffress announced in one interview today that he has word that Mr. Trump plans to keep his promises on Supreme Court justices and pro life issues as well as the Johnson Amendment suppressing free speech behind the pulpit.  President Donald Trump will sign an executive order to defund International Planned Parenthood this coming Sunday. 
http://www.lifenews.com/2017/01/20/president-donald-trump-will-sign-executive-order-sunday-to-defund-intentional-planned-parenthood/

Tom Delay was right.  ?But, you know, God has a great sense of humor, and He uses people that appear to be weak, or uses people that don?t even have faith,? he said. ?I mean, He used me for a long time, until I came to Congress, and when I came to Congress, I came to Christ in 1985.?
http://www.wnd.com/2016/12/tom-delay-finds-gods-plan-in-trumps-election/

I'm starting to like our new President.  I'm glad to eat crow sometimes.
 

Tarheel Baptist

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The abortion debate is being won (and will ultimately be won) by the Pro-life movement. Science and technology illustrating that a fetus is simply Latin for baby will ultimately win the day.
 

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Tarheel Baptist said:
The abortion debate is being won (and will ultimately be won) by the Pro-life movement. Science and technology illustrating that a fetus is simply Latin for baby will ultimately win the day.

While that is a nice thought I do not think it is based in reality. Trump actually believes that when he nominates Supreme Court Justices that is will happen automatically. He stated this in the debates.

The only way the Pro-Life movement wins is to win the minds of the women who are candidates for abortion.
 

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Win the minds of murderous women inconvenienced by a pregnancy?

Sure. Repeal the repugnant law and install penalties one would get for murder. That will win most murderous minds!
 

biscuit1953

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FSSL said:
Win the minds of murderous women inconvenienced by a pregnancy?

Sure. Repeal the repugnant law and install penalties one would get for murder. That will win most murderous minds!
What is even more repugnant is Hillary Clinton believes the day a woman is to give birth the "mother" has a right to rip the full term baby out of her womb and murder the helpless child for any reason!  The entire Democratic Party leadership also believes that!
 

Tarheel Baptist

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biscuit1953 said:
FSSL said:
Win the minds of murderous women inconvenienced by a pregnancy?

Sure. Repeal the repugnant law and install penalties one would get for murder. That will win most murderous minds!
What is even more repugnant is Hillary Clinton believes the day woman is to give birth the "mother" has a right to rip the full term baby out of her womb and murder the helpless child for any reason!  The entire Democratic Party leadership also believes that!

I assume that liberal socialist democrats vote their values.
 

FSSL

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biscuit1953 said:
What is even more repugnant is Hillary Clinton believes the day woman is to give birth the "mother" has a right to rip the full term baby out of her womb and murder the helpless child for any reason!  The entire Democratic Party leadership also believes that!

...and make a ton of money off their chopped up body parts.
 

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FSSL said:
biscuit1953 said:
What is even more repugnant is Hillary Clinton believes the day woman is to give birth the "mother" has a right to rip the full term baby out of her womb and murder the helpless child for any reason!  The entire Democratic Party leadership also believes that!

...and make a ton of money off their chopped up body parts.

And conservatives just make stuff up. I am sorry I said that...as Kellyanne Conway said about Sean Spicer is that he gave "alternate facts".
 

FSSL

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How many baby parts does it take to pay for a Lambo?


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