'America First' Means 'After Israel'

Ekklesian said:
A cursory internet search didn't reveal anything fringe about this publication. But I'm not hopping on board with this one yet. (One can't be too careful.)

Just to be clear, my opinons about the Scofield Bible are based on what I've personally seen and my interactions with its devotees in my own circles. I've also picked up some items here and there as I've studied over the years, but nobody came to me and said, "Scofield was a Zionist." I didn't even know what Zionism was until well into my college career...Well...I didn't know it as Zionism, I knew the Dispensational flavor of it, and I believed a form of it. I was a Dispensational Premillennialist...sort of. My varied background saved me from a wholesale descent into that deception on the order of @biscuit1953 and @Tarheel Baptist, who seem more afraid to criticize Israel than they are to blaspheme Christ.

And why is this important? It is because of the Person, work, and Gospel of Jesus Christ. By far the greatest offense of the Scofield Bible is the idea of parallel covenants, one for the gentiles, and one the jews, and two means of salvation. One that is all of grace, by which they mean salvation unaccompanied by repentance (or they redefine it to mean something other than to repent) for the gentiles, and one that mixes grace with works of the law for the jews. Repentance is for the jews, not gentiles.

What a diabolical doctrine! Can you imagine believing that? The first principle of the Gospel, repentance, is robbed from the gentiles. That is the seed that fell by the way side being devoured by the fowls of the air.

By their 'rightly dividing' (falsely so-called) of the word of truth, they rob the Scriptures of the Gospel itself. The book of James is for the Tribulation jews. We can just ignore it. The Kingdom of Heaven (vs Kingdom of God) is all about the jews. That's not for us believing gentiles. And there is just absolutely no profit whatsoever for us in a study of the law. We're just the lucky beneficiaries of the Jews' rejection of Christ. God had to adjust His plan a little bit because those sly chief priests and scribes thwarted His original plan to set up the earthly messianic kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven).

But don't worry, in the future the antichrist will whip the jews into shape and then Christ Himself will descend from Heaven and rescue them from Gog and Magog, set up residence in the temple and there will be miracles and power and glory...it will be like the Exodus all over again!

And Sinai! Oh, Sinai...wasn't that sumthin!

And we'll get to make yearly pilgrimages to Jerusalem! And we'll see Jesus in the Temple. And the Ark! Ooooh, God loves that golden box! And there will be a pillar of fire and pillar of smoke, and sacrifices!! (But there won't be any flies or stink.)

And can you believe, even after all that some nations STILL won't believe and won't make their yearly pigrimage...Sooo

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Need I go on?
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Once again you've gone off the rails and proven you're a jackass...and an arrogant one at that! The only "deception" here is that you're a human being or a Christian....you've more or less called other's cultists even though you've not used that terminology. It's alleged "Christians" like you that have turned my wife off to Christianity, church, and the Bible...and I can't say that I blame her. With all the infighting in Christianity, I can see why many in my family have left the Lord, church, and belief in the Bible. Thanks for you example of hateful, Calvinist, twisted self-righteous Christianity. May the Lord help us all if we don't agree with eKKK....$#!+
 
Ekk’s ranting against the evil Jooos have given me an idea for a new business:
I’m going to start a tour company offering excursions to Bethlehem and Nazareth…

Pennsylvania.
 
Bruh said:
You’re funny. But I don’t support Iran. I’m pro America. And going to war with Iran doesn’t help America it only hurts us for more than a few reasons.

Just because someone disagrees with the so called reasons our government wants to go to war doesn’t mean we are pro Iran or against Israel. Do you remember Ted Kennedy? Do you remember what he said when we were invading Afghanistan? He said, this is nothing more than another Vietnam!! And do you remember how they said he was against American troops? And causing morale to go down because he was against the invasion. They demonized him. But he was right. He was dead right. Go ahead and look it up on YouTube.

I am not your enemy because we disagree.

I’m not against anyone. I’m against people dying for absolutely no reason. First our soldiers. Again we died, over there. We lost moms, dad, brothers, nephews, cousins over there and for what?????
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So, you're saying that Afghanistan harboring and sending out people to destroy the Twin Towers and the Pentagon wasn't enough of a reason to go to war to get Osama? Interesting... stupid, but interesting. 🙄🙄🙄
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
With your TDS, you might actually believe that. 😏
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Follow the logic here Ek criticizes Israel and y'all insist that he is antisemitic. Mr. Trump criticized Israel. Would that not require y'all to insist that he too is antisemitic?

I haven't been particularly critical of Israel but have questioned the idea that the modern state of Israel is the subject of biblical prophecy relating to the children of Israel. I have also been accused of antisemitism.

Consistency shouldn't be that hard.
 
subllibrm said:
Follow the logic here Ek criticizes Israel and y'all insist that he is antisemitic. Mr. Trump criticized Israel. Would that not require y'all to insist that he too is antisemitic?

I haven't been particularly critical of Israel but have questioned the idea that the modern state of Israel is the subject of biblical prophecy relating to the children of Israel. I have also been accused of antisemitism.

Consistency shouldn't be that hard.
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No, Ekk criticizes Jewish people and, like those on the political left, hides behind ‘Zionism’. My defense of Israel has been and is based on their being our political and military ally.
I don’t remember calling you anything except pointing out that you have a major case of TDS.

Actually knowing the facts is not that hard.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Umm…I think Ek’s criticisms have gone beyond Israel and to Jews in general.
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My criticisms are more toward the Dispensational infatuation with a canceled covenant, and its idolization of Judaism...which really isn't the Judaism of the Old Testament...than Israel. That is true.

But it has nothing to do with someone being Hebrew.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
My defense of Israel has been and is based on their being our political and military ally.
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Your visceral reactions belie this statement. You've made no such argument, political or otherwise to justify Israel in anything. You were wise not to try. But don't lie.

@biscuit1953 at least argues from his views of the Scriptures.

But you just prance around like a court jester, yet void of the wit.

So, do you want to start actually doing what you say you're doing, or are you just content to wear the effeminate outfit :LOL:

1750935998812.png
 
www.christianpost.com

Who are God's 'chosen people': Israel or the Church?

If Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit harbors this love for the Jewish people then ought we not share this same attitude
www.christianpost.com www.christianpost.com

"Some equate the modern government of Israel with the biblical Israel of old, demanding unwavering support — a conversation that has been trending on social media as of recent, due to a fiery Tucker Carlson/Ted Cruz face-off. . . .

"Supporting Israel’s right to exist or its security doesn’t mean endorsing every policy. For example, one can question Israel’s current leadership, military actions, US relations, intelligence community, or COVID policies — issues debated even within Israel — without rejecting God’s purposes for the Jewish people. In fact, scrutiny, if done with honesty (seeking truth), is profoundly wise. Blind allegiance to any government risks idolatry, elevating a nation above God’s Kingdom. . . .

"Christians should advocate for peace and justice in the Middle East, supporting Israel’s right to exist while also championing Palestinian dignity. Both peoples suffer in the current conflict, and simplistic 'pro-Israel no matter what' or 'anti-Israel no matter what' camps often ignore this. Isaiah 19:23–25 envisions a day when enemies — Egypt, Assyria, and Israel — worship together. . . .

"First, reject the idea that the modern Israeli government is biblical Israel. It’s a nation-state, not a divine mandate. Critique its actions when warranted, as you would any government. Second, affirm God’s enduring love for the Jewish people."
 
Not everyone agrees that the existence of modern Israel is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy (go to page 2 of this link)"

Ekklesian

Thread 'In Thee Shall All Families of the Earth Be Blessed'

Genesis 12:3

Is this about the Jews, or about Christianity?

"There is no prophetic significance in the present partial worldly establishment of a Jewish state in Israel. . . . The present small and partial establishment of the nation Israel in unbelief is an entirely different matter from the tremendous miraculous event which is foretold in the Bible." (Evangelist John R. Rice, "Christ is Coming, Signs Or No Signs," Sword of the Lord Press, pp. 17-18).

Even assuming that modern Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy, to what extent does this mean that we must support modern Israel? I ran across this statement by an SBC pastor in Florida, Timothy Mann (sorry, not able to link to original):

"The modern state of Israel, founded in 1948, is a nation among the nations. . . . It may be part of God’s providential plan, but it is not identical to the Israel of the Old Testament covenant. . . . We honor Israel as part of God's historical covenant plan - but we must not confuse that with blanket political support or claim that every policy of the modern Israeli government is divinely sanctioned. . . .

"In years past, I misunderstood Genesis 12:3 and taught it as if it applied directly to the modern state of Israel. I believed - and even said - that blessing Israel today guaranteed God’s blessing on a person or nation. While my intentions were to honor God’s Word and stand with the Jewish people, I now see that I was applying the promise too narrowly, out of context from the New Testament, and apart from its fulfillment in Christ."

Isaiah 19:25 says, "Blessed be Egypt my people." Should we regard the modern nation of Egypt as a fulfillment of prophecy? What are the implications - to what extent should we be supporting the political and military actions of the modern Egyptian government?

For that matter, how specifically should we be supporting Israel today? Has Trump dropped enough bombs on Iran, and can we "take the win" at this point, or is there more we as Christians should be lobbying for on the behalf of Israel?
 
Ekklesian said:
Your visceral reactions belie this statement. You've made no such argument, political or otherwise to justify Israel in anything. You were wise not to try. But don't lie.

@biscuit1953 at least argues from his views of the Scriptures.

But you just prance around like a court jester, yet void of the wit.

So, do you want to start actually doing what you say you're doing, or are you just content to wear the effeminate outfit :LOL:

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Is my visceral reaction is pointing out your bitterness and hatred?
Is my visceral reaction daring to disagree with you, one who is often wrong but never in doubt?
If so, then that’s exactly what I did.
As you agreed earlier, our posts speak for themselves.
 
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Ekklesian said:
My criticisms are more toward the Dispensational infatuation with a canceled covenant, and its idolization of Judaism...which really isn't the Judaism of the Old Testament...than Israel. That is true.

But it has nothing to do with someone being Hebrew.
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Doest thou protest too much?



"Protest too much" means to excessively deny or defend something, often to the point where it raises suspicion about the truthfulness of the denial.😏
 
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illinoisguy said:
Not everyone agrees that the existence of modern Israel is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy (go to page 2 of this link)"

Ekklesian

Thread 'In Thee Shall All Families of the Earth Be Blessed'

Genesis 12:3

Is this about the Jews, or about Christianity?

"There is no prophetic significance in the present partial worldly establishment of a Jewish state in Israel. . . . The present small and partial establishment of the nation Israel in unbelief is an entirely different matter from the tremendous miraculous event which is foretold in the Bible." (Evangelist John R. Rice, "Christ is Coming, Signs Or No Signs," Sword of the Lord Press, pp. 17-18).

Even assuming that modern Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy, to what extent does this mean that we must support modern Israel? I ran across this statement by an SBC pastor in Florida, Timothy Mann (sorry, not able to link to original):

"The modern state of Israel, founded in 1948, is a nation among the nations. . . . It may be part of God’s providential plan, but it is not identical to the Israel of the Old Testament covenant. . . . We honor Israel as part of God's historical covenant plan - but we must not confuse that with blanket political support or claim that every policy of the modern Israeli government is divinely sanctioned. . . .

"In years past, I misunderstood Genesis 12:3 and taught it as if it applied directly to the modern state of Israel. I believed - and even said - that blessing Israel today guaranteed God’s blessing on a person or nation. While my intentions were to honor God’s Word and stand with the Jewish people, I now see that I was applying the promise too narrowly, out of context from the New Testament, and apart from its fulfillment in Christ."

Isaiah 19:25 says, "Blessed be Egypt my people." Should we regard the modern nation of Egypt as a fulfillment of prophecy? What are the implications - to what extent should we be supporting the political and military actions of the modern Egyptian government?

For that matter, how specifically should we be supporting Israel today? Has Trump dropped enough bombs on Iran, and can we "take the win" at this point, or is there more we as Christians should be lobbying for on the behalf of Israel?
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We should support Israel today when it is in our best interest…politically and militarily.
 
There was no Israel for 2,000 years and then an Israel was created again in 1948. To call that just some type of weird coincidence that has nothing to do with biblical prophecy seems as logical as believing that I can actually belch real fire after my Tuesday Taco meal. 🔥
 
Ekklesian said:
Your visceral reactions belie this statement. You've made no such argument, political or otherwise to justify Israel in anything. You were wise not to try. But don't lie.

@biscuit1953 at least argues from his views of the Scriptures.

But you just prance around like a court jester, yet void of the wit.

So, do you want to start actually doing what you say you're doing, or are you just content to wear the effeminate outfit :LOL:

View attachment 7283
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What a twit! Thanks for giving us your graduation picture! LOL That was you prancing up to get your diploma, wasn't it????
 
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