Amos, Prosperity and America

[Tarheel Baptist]

One of my favorite books of the Bible.

Their refusal to repent led to the Assyrian captivity. The mixing of religions during that time is how the hated Samaritans came to be. Kind of interesting that their sin was lack of compassion and Jesus taught that a Samaritan could show more compassion than the religious leaders of his day.

I wonder what Amos would think of the revulsion American Christians show towards the poor in our midst.

Do you have someone or some particular situation in mind or did you intend to make a broad brush denouncement of American Christianity as a whole?

Unwed mothers and their "baby daddies". Illegal immigrants. Raging on about "dead beats" getting food stamps. All sentiments provided by Christian friends that post their confused theology on FB or forward email spam with the same or similar nonsense. Then you add in the recommended scorched earth approach "solutions" to these problems and you can see the hardened heart that has resulted from mixing politics with what should be pure religion.

Sorry, but I don't see that at all.
You have anecdotal evidence based on your experience, I assume.
I don't see evidence of a 'revulsion American Christians show towards the poor in our midst'.
I would say that in evangelicalism today helping the poor is a widespread phenomenon...almost a fad in some circles.

 

[subllibrm]

One of my favorite books of the Bible.

Their refusal to repent led to the Assyrian captivity. The mixing of religions during that time is how the hated Samaritans came to be. Kind of interesting that their sin was lack of compassion and Jesus taught that a Samaritan could show more compassion than the religious leaders of his day.

I wonder what Amos would think of the revulsion American Christians show towards the poor in our midst.

Do you have someone or some particular situation in mind or did you intend to make a broad brush denouncement of American Christianity as a whole?

Unwed mothers and their "baby daddies". Illegal immigrants. Raging on about "dead beats" getting food stamps. All sentiments provided by Christian friends that post their confused theology on FB or forward email spam with the same or similar nonsense. Then you add in the recommended scorched earth approach "solutions" to these problems and you can see the hardened heart that has resulted from mixing politics with what should be pure religion.

Sorry, but I don't see that at all.
You have anecdotal evidence based on your experience, I assume.
I don't see evidence of a 'revulsion American Christians show towards the poor in our midst'.
I would say that in evangelicalism today helping the poor is a widespread phenomenon...almost a fad in some circles.

I guess I need to introduce you to some American Christians of my acquaintance. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

One of my favorite books of the Bible.

Their refusal to repent led to the Assyrian captivity. The mixing of religions during that time is how the hated Samaritans came to be. Kind of interesting that their sin was lack of compassion and Jesus taught that a Samaritan could show more compassion than the religious leaders of his day.

I wonder what Amos would think of the revulsion American Christians show towards the poor in our midst.

Do you have someone or some particular situation in mind or did you intend to make a broad brush denouncement of American Christianity as a whole?

Unwed mothers and their "baby daddies". Illegal immigrants. Raging on about "dead beats" getting food stamps. All sentiments provided by Christian friends that post their confused theology on FB or forward email spam with the same or similar nonsense. Then you add in the recommended scorched earth approach "solutions" to these problems and you can see the hardened heart that has resulted from mixing politics with what should be pure religion.

Sorry, but I don't see that at all.
You have anecdotal evidence based on your experience, I assume.
I don't see evidence of a 'revulsion American Christians show towards the poor in our midst'.
I would say that in evangelicalism today helping the poor is a widespread phenomenon...almost a fad in some circles.

I guess I need to introduce you to some American Christians of my acquaintance. 

I don't doubt that...met a few myself, but today, they are the exception (in my experience).
Around here, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church program designed to 'help the poor'.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I don't doubt that...met a few myself, but today, they are the exception (in my experience).
Around here, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church program designed to 'help the poor'.[/quote]

Those quote marks are quite telling...

 

[ALAYMAN]

For ye have the poor always with you...

 

[ddgently]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Agreed.

But why should we pay some widow's mortgage payment when we can get ourselves some pads for our church pews? Or assist an addict in getting rehab when we need to put in a church kitchen for potlucks?

 

[subllibrm]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Agreed.

But why should we pay some widow's mortgage payment when we can get ourselves some pads for our church pews? Or assist an addict in getting rehab when we need to put in a church kitchen for potlucks?

We never need get that far in rationalizations. The comfort of our building is way down the list of "why" we shouldn't help. The widow obviously wasted what little she had so we can't be enabling her and the addict is welcome to help as soon as he cleans up his act.  ???

 

[Smellin Coffee]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Agreed.

But why should we pay some widow's mortgage payment when we can get ourselves some pads for our church pews? Or assist an addict in getting rehab when we need to put in a church kitchen for potlucks?

We never need get that far in rationalizations. The comfort of our building is way down the list of "why" we shouldn't help. The widow obviously wasted what little she had so we can't be enabling her and the addict is welcome to help as soon as he cleans up his act.  ???

Reminds me of the lyrics to My Jesus by Todd Agnew:

Which Jesus do you follow?
Which Jesus do you serve?
If Ephesians says to imitate Christ
Then why do you look so much like the world?

Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the arrogant
So which one do you want to be?

Blessed are the poor in spirit
Or do we pray to be blessed with the wealth of this land
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness
Or do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand

Cause my Jesus bled and died for my sins
He spent His time with thieves and sluts and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the rich
So which one do you want to be?

Who is this that you follow
This picture of the American dream
If Jesus was here would you walk right by on the other side or fall down and worship at His holy feet

Pretty blue eyes and curly brown hair and a clear complexion
Is how you see Him as He dies for Your sins
But the Word says He was battered and scarred
Or did you miss that part
Sometimes I doubt we'd recognize Him

Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and the least of these
He loved the poor and accosted the comfortable
So which one do you want to be?

Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church
The blood and dirt on His feet might stain the carpet
But He reaches for the hurting and despises the proud
I think He'd prefer Beale St. to the stained glass crowd
And I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud

I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!

Not a posterchild for American prosperity, but like my Jesus
You see I'm tired of living for success and popularity
I want to be like my Jesus but I'm not sure what that means to be like You Jesus
Cause You said to live like You, love like You but then You died for me
Can I be like You Jesus?
I want to be like you Jesus!

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/My-Jesus-lyrics-Todd-Agnew/8E759CCF72670A224825716D00455768

 

[ALAYMAN]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Or you could loosen up the tie and get a sense of humor.

 

[ALAYMAN]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Agreed.

But why should we pay some widow's mortgage payment when we can get ourselves some pads for our church pews? Or assist an addict in getting rehab when we need to put in a church kitchen for potlucks?

False dichotomy.

Jesus attended synagogue(which required maintenance and upkeep), and he regularly ate with his disciples, "doing ministry" with the addicts in between.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Agreed.

But why should we pay some widow's mortgage payment when we can get ourselves some pads for our church pews? Or assist an addict in getting rehab when we need to put in a church kitchen for potlucks?

False dichotomy.

Jesus attended synagogue(which required maintenance and upkeep), and he regularly ate with his disciples, "doing ministry" with the addicts in between.

So the temple had padded pews and a kitchen for potlucks. Thanks for the history lesson.

FYI, the presence of God Himself dwelt in the temple at that time. That particular "upkeep" was in essence directly given for Him. Can't say the same thing about the church in America today.

 

[ddgently]

For ye have the poor always with you...

Good use abuse of context there.

Or you could loosen up the tie and get a sense of humor.

Well, considering how pervasive anti-poor sentiments are in Christian and conservative (and especially conservative Christian) circles, I don't think it's that funny.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Well, considering how pervasive anti-poor sentiments are in Christian and conservative (and especially conservative Christian) circles, I don't think it's that funny.

I don't know of any Christians (conservative or otherwise) who are anti-poor.  I know of many who are against abuse of welfare, disability and food stamps, but that's not being anti-poor.  That's anti-irresponsibility. 

 

[christundivided]

Well, considering how pervasive anti-poor sentiments are in Christian and conservative (and especially conservative Christian) circles, I don't think it's that funny.

I don't know of any Christians (conservative or otherwise) who are anti-poor.  I know of many who are against abuse of welfare, disability and food stamps, but that's not being anti-poor.  That's anti-irresponsibility.

I bet the turd hasn't personally helped anyone in his life. You see it all the time. Rabid liberals want to claim conservatives hate the poor and the vast majority of Liberals haven't personally done anything to help the poor.

 

[rsc2a]

Well, considering how pervasive anti-poor sentiments are in Christian and conservative (and especially conservative Christian) circles, I don't think it's that funny.

I don't know of any Christians (conservative or otherwise) who are anti-poor.  I know of many who are against abuse of welfare, disability and food stamps, but that's not being anti-poor.  That's anti-irresponsibility.

I don't know of many explicitly anti-poor Christians, but I know several,  several 'bootstraps' Christians that don't want to 'get in the way' of someone struggling through financial difficulties.  I also know several whose first response isn't 'how can I help'but instead 'what did you do to cause this'.

 

[christundivided]

Well, considering how pervasive anti-poor sentiments are in Christian and conservative (and especially conservative Christian) circles, I don't think it's that funny.

I don't know of any Christians (conservative or otherwise) who are anti-poor.  I know of many who are against abuse of welfare, disability and food stamps, but that's not being anti-poor.  That's anti-irresponsibility.

I also know several whose first response isn't 'how can I help'but instead 'what did you do to cause this'.

NO... people like you don't want to know how someone got there......so it might not happen again.... You just enjoy bashing someone who refuses to help someone that willingly lives in the gutter.

 

[ddgently]

Well, considering how pervasive anti-poor sentiments are in Christian and conservative (and especially conservative Christian) circles, I don't think it's that funny.

I don't know of any Christians (conservative or otherwise) who are anti-poor.  I know of many who are against abuse of welfare, disability and food stamps, but that's not being anti-poor.  That's anti-irresponsibility.

True enough, but the way it's expressed often implicitly makes severe, unwarranted judgments, and often wholly incorrect judgments about the poor.

Two good essays on the subject:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/women/2013/november/things-broke-people-do.html?paging=off
and
http://lizboltzranfeld.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/when-christians-despise-the-poor/

I bet the turd hasn't personally helped anyone in his life. You see it all the time. Rabid liberals want to claim conservatives hate the poor and the vast majority of Liberals haven't personally done anything to help the poor.

You again. Well for your information, "the turd" personally gives ongoing financial support to:
(1) a local mission that provides housing and Christian education for the city's homeless;
(2) the Salvation Army;
(3) the fund established by the utility company to pay for electricity and heat in the winter for those who can't afford it;
(4)  World Impact (worldimpact.org) -- probably my favorite one. They do absolutely amazing work;
(5) A Christian sports outreach program in Liberia .  . .

I could keep going, but I think I've made my point.

 

[rsc2a]

And, personally, I just prefer not to advertise how my family gives. Something about trumpets.

It is enough that it is the right thing to do. The fact that some people in our personal lives have acknowledged it is just icing.

 

[ddgently]

NO... people like you don't want to know how someone got there......so it might not happen again.... You just enjoy bashing someone who refuses to help someone that willing lives in the gutter.

“Then the King will say to those on his Religious Right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you told me Wal-Mart was hiring, I was thirsty and you made sure I wasn't an alcoholic before you gave me what was left of your bottled water, I was a stranger and you asked to see my papers, I needed clothes and you asked why I hadn't been more responsible with the clothes I had, I was sick and you passed laws to make sure my liberty wasn't taken away by socialized medicine, I was in prison and you made damn sure I stayed there.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Right on!’’

Matthew 25:.34-37 (NCV)*

*New Conservative Version