Are there any books on door to door soulwinning before the IFB movement?

I?m all for evangelism...soulwinning to you IFB-ers :)....door to door or any other way the Gospel is propagated. But to say that door to door is mandated in Scripture as some do is beyond my understanding.
 
Actually, there is no such thing as "soul winning" but whatever makes you feel good, or less guilty, as the case may be.
 
bruinboy said:
Actually, there is no such thing as "soul winning" but whatever makes you feel good, or less guilty, as the case may be.
I try not to get hung up on terminology or even methods for that matter, but surely you believe we have a command to share the gospel with others?

Call it witnessing, evangelism, sharing the gospel, soul winning, outreach, teaching or preaching, the purpose is the same.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 14:23 - And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 15:20  Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundations

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Acts 13:47  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.


 
sword said:
bruinboy said:
Actually, there is no such thing as "soul winning" but whatever makes you feel good, or less guilty, as the case may be.
I try not to get hung up on terminology or even methods for that matter, but surely you believe we have a command to share the gospel with others?

Call it witnessing, evangelism, sharing the gospel, soul winning, outreach, teaching or preaching, the purpose is the same.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 14:23 - And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 15:20  Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundations

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Acts 13:47  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Great list!  If someone believes the Bible you'll get no argument.  You are correct - we can bicker over terminology , method and so on, but the scriptures (God) commands the church to go and proclaim.
 
Edwards said:
sword said:
bruinboy said:
Actually, there is no such thing as "soul winning" but whatever makes you feel good, or less guilty, as the case may be.
I try not to get hung up on terminology or even methods for that matter, but surely you believe we have a command to share the gospel with others?

Call it witnessing, evangelism, sharing the gospel, soul winning, outreach, teaching or preaching, the purpose is the same.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 14:23 - And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 15:20  Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundations

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Acts 13:47  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Great list!  If someone believes the Bible you'll get no argument.  You are correct - we can bicker over terminology , method and so on, but the scriptures (God) commands the church to go and proclaim.

I believe the point bruin boy was trying (lamely) to make is that evangelism is not ?saving people?...it is telling them they need to be saved and how they can be saved.
 
I have switched mainly to public places whenever possible to share the gospel.

I have found people on benches in the park or other public spaces are much more receptive to someone talking to them. People just hanging out tend to have more time to chat. I have also found success in airports (when traveling) hotel lobbies, waiting rooms, and lobbies of large buildings. One might find events at libraries and community centers to be a great place to meet people and be a witness as well. I find i'm most effective when I make some type of connection first. People I have chatted with more than once in the same place are far more willing to allow you to share your faith with them. This take a lot more work, but seems far more effective.

Repeat visits to the nursing home seem to yield the best results. As people see you return week after week or month after month they feel as they know you and began to trust your face.

I think every area and every demographic is different and I am for every effective method to get the gospel out.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Edwards said:
sword said:
bruinboy said:
Actually, there is no such thing as "soul winning" but whatever makes you feel good, or less guilty, as the case may be.
I try not to get hung up on terminology or even methods for that matter, but surely you believe we have a command to share the gospel with others?

Call it witnessing, evangelism, sharing the gospel, soul winning, outreach, teaching or preaching, the purpose is the same.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 14:23 - And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 15:20  Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundations

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Acts 13:47  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Great list!  If someone believes the Bible you'll get no argument.  You are correct - we can bicker over terminology , method and so on, but the scriptures (God) commands the church to go and proclaim.

I believe the point bruin boy was trying (lamely) to make is that evangelism is not ?saving people?...it is telling them they need to be saved and how they can be saved.

Not really. God is the ONLY one who saves souls. Our "efforts" do not have anything to do with who or how many go to heaven.  Those who's names were written in the Lambs Book of Life, before the foundation of the world, will make it to heaven, regardless. 
We are commanded to tell others, just as Noah was told.  Who knows, maybe if he was a better "soul-winning salesman" maybe he would have had some converts after 120 years .  Maybe the ark wouldn't have been big enough and he would have had to build a bigger one?  What if, after it started to rain, that some of the people wanted to get on the ark?  Do you think that they had that choice?  Could they have made that decision to be a passenger?  Isn't the ark supposed to be a "type" of salvation?  Just wondering.
 
bruinboy said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Edwards said:
sword said:
bruinboy said:
Actually, there is no such thing as "soul winning" but whatever makes you feel good, or less guilty, as the case may be.
I try not to get hung up on terminology or even methods for that matter, but surely you believe we have a command to share the gospel with others?

Call it witnessing, evangelism, sharing the gospel, soul winning, outreach, teaching or preaching, the purpose is the same.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 14:23 - And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 15:20  Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundations

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Acts 13:47  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Great list!  If someone believes the Bible you'll get no argument.  You are correct - we can bicker over terminology , method and so on, but the scriptures (God) commands the church to go and proclaim.

I believe the point bruin boy was trying (lamely) to make is that evangelism is not ?saving people?...it is telling them they need to be saved and how they can be saved.

Not really. God is the ONLY one who saves souls. Our "efforts" do not have anything to do with who or how many go to heaven.  Those who's names were written in the Lambs Book of Life, before the foundation of the world, will make it to heaven, regardless. 
We are commanded to tell others, just as Noah was told.  Who knows, maybe if he was a better "soul-winning salesman" maybe he would have had some converts after 120 years .  Maybe the ark wouldn't have been big enough and he would have had to build a bigger one?  What if, after it started to rain, that some of the people wanted to get on the ark?  Do you think that they had that choice?  Could they have made that decision to be a passenger?  Isn't the ark supposed to be a "type" of salvation?  Just wondering.

So what's the purpose of us telling anyone about Christ.

Is it just to give us something to do until Jesus returns?

Romans 10:14
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Matt 5:13-15
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me.
 
sword said:
So what's the purpose of us telling anyone about Christ.

Is it just to give us something to do until Jesus returns?

If you know who the elect are already, please let us all know so we don't waste our time preaching the message of death unto death to the reprobates.

If not, then I guess we'll have to keep following the example of Jesus and the apostles, and proclaim the Gospel indiscriminately, secure in the hope that sheep will recognize the voice of their Master and will follow him.
 
Ransom said:
If you know who the elect are already, please let us all know so we don't waste our time preaching the message of death unto death to the reprobates.

If not, then I guess we'll have to keep following the example of Jesus and the apostles, and proclaim the Gospel indiscriminately, secure in the hope that sheep will recognize the voice of their Master and will follow him. 

Hmmm...you'd think that Jesus would have known who the "elect" were.
 
Twisted said:
Hmmm...you'd think that Jesus would have known who the "elect" were.

You'd think the sower (Mark 4:3-9) would know not to waste seed on the rocks, too, but there you are. Jesus missed out not having you around to correct his stupid stories.
 
Ransom said:
Twisted said:
Hmmm...you'd think that Jesus would have known who the "elect" were.

You'd think the sower (Mark 4:3-9) would know not to waste seed on the rocks, too,

Unless Augustine/Calvin are wrong, which they are.
 
Twisted said:
Unless Augustine/Calvin are wrong, which they are.

Well, if you say so without any supporting arguments whatsoever, it must be true. LOL!
 
Ransom said:
Twisted said:
Unless Augustine/Calvin are wrong, which they are.

Well, if you say so without any supporting arguments whatsoever, it must be true.

Now you're learning!
 
Ransom said:
Twisted said:
Unless Augustine/Calvin are wrong, which they are.
Well, if you say so without any supporting arguments whatsoever, it must be true. LOL!
Ramsom:
I ask these questions sincerely:

Is the elect all the people who accept gospel and accept Jesus Christ as their savior?

Is the non-elect all those people who could have accepted the gospel and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior but chose not too. Those who could have gotten saved but God in his foreknowledge knew they would not accept his plan for Heaven?

How could anyone not at least have the opportunity to get saved if they would just repent, when the bible uses the words "ALL" and WHOSOEVER" and "ANY"?

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me.

Romans 10:10
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

How do these verses reconcile with man not having a choice whether or not they can be saved?

 
sword said:
I ask these questions sincerely:
Is the elect all the people who accept gospel and accept Jesus Christ as their savior?
Is the non-elect all those people who could have accepted the gospel and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior but chose not too. Those who could have gotten saved but God in his foreknowledge knew they would not accept his plan for Heaven?

The elect are those whom God has chosen (i.e. elected) to grant eternal life.

The non-elect are those whom he hasn't.

That simple.

How could anyone not at least have the opportunity to get saved if they would just repent . . .

Everyone has the opportunity. As I said in my first post in this thread, God gives them their entire lives to hear the Gospel and repent. No one is prevented from doing what they want. The elect want to follow God, and choose repentance unto life; the reprobates want to remain God's enemy, and choose continued disobedience unto death.

. . . when the bible uses the words "ALL" and WHOSOEVER" and "ANY"?

You've committed a non sequitur there. The word "whosoever" simply means "those who." Whosoever X merely distinguishes those who are X from those who are not-X. It makes no statement about how they get from non-X to X. So John 3:16 simply says that those who believe get eternal life; those who don't perish. There's no assumption of libertarian free will.

As for "any" and "all," they're ajdjectives; they modify a noun. When you see "any" or "all" without a noun, you need to ask, "Any of whom?" "All of whom?" and do a little Bible study to establish the context.

Case in point:

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

"The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any [of you] to perish but for all [of you] to come to repentance."

The context of this passage is the second coming, and the skeptics who demand to know why God hasn't kept his promise to return. Peter's answer is that he doesn't mark time the way we do, and he is patiently waiting for the rest of his sheep to be brought into the fold.

In context, 2 Peter 3:9 makes no sense if "any" and "all" mean all people indiscriminately. If you assume libertarian free will, then there's never going to be an end to people who might potentially turn to God. It's only when we understand this verse to mean, "God has a definite people and plan, and he is waiting for it to come to fruition" that it answers the question, "Where is the promise of his coming?"

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me.

Again, context matters. This particular discourse is prompted by some Gentiles who come to the disciples asking to see Jesus (12:20-22). This, Christ takes as a sign that the time of his death was imminent (v. 23). Verse 32 needs to be contrasted with the preceding verse: "Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself" (12: 31-32). There's a double meaning in the words "lifted up"; literally it signifies the kind of death he was going to die (v. 33), but Christ emphatically contrasts his own fate with that of "the ruler of this world." He will be "cast out"; Christ will be "lifted up." He will be exalted as the one who has conquered Satan and taken over his entire kingdom. He is no longer "king of the Jews" only, but the king of "all men": Jew and Gentile alike.

Romans 10:10
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

Titus 2:11-12, you mean? (You must have forgotten to paste a verse?)

Paul is writing Titus about organizing the church, and in chapter 2 of this letter, he discusses the kind of moral teaching that Titus is to pass on. There are specific instructions for men and women (both young and old), as well as slaves. Is Paul telling Titus to teach pagan slaves to glorify their Saviour in their work (v. 10)? Is he saying to teach the pagans to wait for their blessed hope (v. 13)? Obviously not.

Again, context defines the scope of "all men." All men, everywhere, have not received the grace of God unto salvation. Paul is writing to, and about, the community of the saved, those who have received God's saving grace--which is "training us to renounce ungodliness" (v. 12); leading them to wait for "our blessed hope . . . who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness" (vv. 13-14). It isn't all men everywhere to whom the grace of God brings salvation. It is all men in Christ: men and women, young and old, slave and free, without distinction.

How do these verses reconcile with man not having a choice whether or not they can be saved?

I reject your premise. All men have a choice. Outside of God's grace, they choose to stay away from him.
 
Ransom said:
sword said:
I ask these questions sincerely:
Is the elect all the people who accept gospel and accept Jesus Christ as their savior?
Is the non-elect all those people who could have accepted the gospel and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior but chose not too. Those who could have gotten saved but God in his foreknowledge knew they would not accept his plan for Heaven?

The elect are those whom God has chosen (i.e. elected) to grant eternal life.

The non-elect are those whom he hasn't.

That simple.

How could anyone not at least have the opportunity to get saved if they would just repent . . .

Everyone has the opportunity. As I said in my first post in this thread, God gives them their entire lives to hear the Gospel and repent. No one is prevented from doing what they want. The elect want to follow God, and choose repentance unto life; the reprobates want to remain God's enemy, and choose continued disobedience unto death.

. . . when the bible uses the words "ALL" and WHOSOEVER" and "ANY"?

You've committed a non sequitur there. The word "whosoever" simply means "those who." Whosoever X merely distinguishes those who are X from those who are not-X. It makes no statement about how they get from non-X to X. So John 3:16 simply says that those who believe get eternal life; those who don't perish. There's no assumption of libertarian free will.

As for "any" and "all," they're ajdjectives; they modify a noun. When you see "any" or "all" without a noun, you need to ask, "Any of whom?" "All of whom?" and do a little Bible study to establish the context.

Case in point:

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

"The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any [of you] to perish but for all [of you] to come to repentance."

The context of this passage is the second coming, and the skeptics who demand to know why God hasn't kept his promise to return. Peter's answer is that he doesn't mark time the way we do, and he is patiently waiting for the rest of his sheep to be brought into the fold.

In context, 2 Peter 3:9 makes no sense if "any" and "all" mean all people indiscriminately. If you assume libertarian free will, then there's never going to be an end to people who might potentially turn to God. It's only when we understand this verse to mean, "God has a definite people and plan, and he is waiting for it to come to fruition" that it answers the question, "Where is the promise of his coming?"

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me.

Again, context matters. This particular discourse is prompted by some Gentiles who come to the disciples asking to see Jesus (12:20-22). This, Christ takes as a sign that the time of his death was imminent (v. 23). Verse 32 needs to be contrasted with the preceding verse: "Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself" (12: 31-32). There's a double meaning in the words "lifted up"; literally it signifies the kind of death he was going to die (v. 33), but Christ emphatically contrasts his own fate with that of "the ruler of this world." He will be "cast out"; Christ will be "lifted up." He will be exalted as the one who has conquered Satan and taken over his entire kingdom. He is no longer "king of the Jews" only, but the king of "all men": Jew and Gentile alike.

Romans 10:10
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

Titus 2:11-12, you mean? (You must have forgotten to paste a verse?)

Paul is writing Titus about organizing the church, and in chapter 2 of this letter, he discusses the kind of moral teaching that Titus is to pass on. There are specific instructions for men and women (both young and old), as well as slaves. Is Paul telling Titus to teach pagan slaves to glorify their Saviour in their work (v. 10)? Is he saying to teach the pagans to wait for their blessed hope (v. 13)? Obviously not.

Again, context defines the scope of "all men." All men, everywhere, have not received the grace of God unto salvation. Paul is writing to, and about, the community of the saved, those who have received God's saving grace--which is "training us to renounce ungodliness" (v. 12); leading them to wait for "our blessed hope . . . who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness" (vv. 13-14). It isn't all men everywhere to whom the grace of God brings salvation. It is all men in Christ: men and women, young and old, slave and free, without distinction.

How do these verses reconcile with man not having a choice whether or not they can be saved?

I reject your premise. All men have a choice. Outside of God's grace, they choose to stay away from him.
I'm still a little confused at your position.

Do you believe they are the elect because God chooses them to go to Heaven and everyone else were not selected for heaven. The non-elect had no choice about salvation? Mankind has no control over their destiny, It has all been decided for us?

OR

Do you believe someone who choose to accept Christ by their own free will becomes the elect because of their own choice? God knew before the foundation of the world how we would live our lives and what we would choose, but we still have the freewill to decide to accept or reject Christ?

It seems if option 1 is true then there would be no need for the great commission. No need for tracts. No need to share the gospel. No need for evangelism.
 
sword said:
I'm still a little confused at your position.

I'm only confused as to why you're confused.  As I said, in my very first sentence in my previous post, the elect are the elect because God elects them. Not because they elect themselves.

That is unambiguously option 1.

It seems if option 1 is true then there would be no need for the great commission. No need for tracts. No need to share the gospel. No need for evangelism.

God does his work in the world through human agents. We need tracts and evangelism, because we're not God and we don't already know who will respond to the gospel. As I said earlier, if you know who the elect are, please let us know, so we can stop wasting our time on the reprobates. Of course, we can't tell the difference between the wheat and the tares in this present world, so we preach to everyone and let God sort 'em out.
 
I have to wonder what kind of "choice" Saul, ie. Paul had, as he was struck down on the road to Damscus and saved by God's glorious grace?  Would it have been possible for Paul to reject salvation?  How could he have done so?  What action(s) would be required to do so?
 
bruinboy said:
I have to wonder what kind of "choice" Saul, ie. Paul had, as he was struck down on the road to Damscus and saved by God's glorious grace?  Would it have been possible for Paul to reject salvation?  How could he have done so?  What action(s) would be required to do so?

"With every head bowed and every eye closed, I wonder if any of you here in this graveyard would like to be alive? Just slip up your hand... Anyone?... Yes, I see that hand, thank you, Lazarus..."
 
Top