Are You a "Recovering Fundamentalist"?
- Thread starter Twisted
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Twisted said:Billy said:Twisted said:
I'm weary of ANYTHING that Don Boys says....
And yes I am still in recovery.
Billy
Thanks but I'm good...
Billy
We have meds here in the ward for you! Feel free to come on down!
Recovered..........
Because he evidently is still in long standing "movement" & recognizes that there have been some "nuts" does not mean that when some of us talk about our involvement that it is "poppycock, balderdash, and a generous portion of hogwash."
It is good that he has not been where so much hurt, abuse & outright lies have done so much damage in lives of believers.
BTW, I am done with movements of men.
Because he evidently is still in long standing "movement" & recognizes that there have been some "nuts" does not mean that when some of us talk about our involvement that it is "poppycock, balderdash, and a generous portion of hogwash."
It is good that he has not been where so much hurt, abuse & outright lies have done so much damage in lives of believers.
BTW, I am done with movements of men.
It seems to me that the author of that article is confusing two different things:
The meaning of a fundamentalist.... with the recent fundamentalist movement
Those who excel as preachers and teachers are those who know the fundamentals of the faith and the historical applications and outworkings of those fundamentals. They know the Apostles' Creed and make deliberate attempts to raise the next generation up on an understanding of the creeds.
Fundamentalists, as the recent movement, rejects creeds.
So, there is a real disconnect, in my opinion with this article.
The meaning of a fundamentalist.... with the recent fundamentalist movement
Those who excel as preachers and teachers are those who know the fundamentals of the faith and the historical applications and outworkings of those fundamentals. They know the Apostles' Creed and make deliberate attempts to raise the next generation up on an understanding of the creeds.
Fundamentalists, as the recent movement, rejects creeds.
So, there is a real disconnect, in my opinion with this article.
Twisted said:
Well... I think he makes some valid points, but he seems to be missing or overlooking some things.
One of the big things missed is the fact that IFB churches still refuse to admit that these spiritually abusive, power-hungry, self-aggrandizing men are wrong.
Take, for example, Jack Hyles: there should be no question that he exalted himself through his sermons. There should be no question that his teaching on leadership in the church was wrong. Yet hundreds continue to defend him and make excuses for him to this day.
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to claim that God couldn't bring some good and teach people good and useful things through HAC and the preaching there... but that isn't the point. To this day, many people think that JH is the greatest Christian who ever lived. And far too many IFB preachers sit on the fence and won't admit his flaws. They blithely quote him without caution.
Twisted said:
I don't know if I'm still in recovery. I do know that we were part of a HAC-type church where there was little spirituality; there was a great deal of interest in loyalty to the pastor, soul-winning, tithing, hair-cuts, but interest in the Scriptures was lacking. And without a walk with Jesus Christ, people inevitably fell into sin. Some leaders were out for filthy lucre; others had various moral problems. The "inner circle" were excused and their sin was ignored.
We got out of there, and, I hope, did not veer too far in the other direction; we are still members of an IFB church, but one that doesn't have the high-pressure performance Christianity of the first. There is a genuine love of one another that is refreshing.
But I know I still have tender spots from the former church. Various family members still have issues about getting balance between treating the pastor with respect, but not worshipping him.
Jack Hyles has been dead for 15 years. Why do so many have to obsess about him good or bad. If he did the things some say it's water under the bridge. If he did not, then he is still gone let not obsess, lets move on.Walt said:
There are 100's and 100's of pastors out there as a result of Gods call & the influence of HAC. Those who were influenced directly and those who were influenced by those who went there. Why can't we look forward instead of looking back all the time. JH is loved by many and despised by others but in the end he's ancient history. Let's move on.
Twisted said:
Who is Don Boys and why should I care what he thinks.
He seems to be the most famous Christian I have never heard of.
TV
Dr. Boys has been a guest on ?Crossfire?; ??Sally Jessy Raphael? (twice); the ?Jerry Springer Show? (three times); the ?Morton Downey, Jr. Show?; ?NBC Nightly News?; ?CBS Morning News?; the ?Christian Television Network (three times); and many cable shows. He has also appeared on well-known radio shows such as the ?Jack Anderson Show?; the ?Pat Buchanan Show?; the London ?BBC; the ?ABC? radio network, etc.
He has also written many feature articles for USA TODAY magazine, the Chattanooga Free-Press, the Sword of the Lord, and the Baptist Tribune and has been interviewed by scores of magazines, journals and newspapers such as the Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times, Indianapolis News, Indianapolis Star, Sacramento Bee, London Daily Mail,
Books
EVOLUTION: Fact, Fraud, or Faith?Mar 22, 2016
Islam: America's Trojan Horse! - A Christian Looks at IslamFeb 2003
Muslim Invasion: The Fuse Is BurningJun 9, 2016
Martin Luther KIng, Jr.: Judged by His Character, Not His Color!Jan 1, 2013
LIBERALISM a Rope of Sand - a Conservative Answer to Cultural and Social Issues1979
Pilgrims, Puritans and Patriots: Our Christian HeritageJun 1983
Christian Resistance: An Idea Whose Time Has Come--Again!Jun 28, 2012
Your Health: How to Feel Better, Look Younger, Live LongerJun 1980
Christian Resistance: An Idea Whose Time Has Come Again1985
boys' Big book of Humor1991
Y2k: The Event That Could Paralyze the PlanetApr 1999
Flying Saucers: Myths, Madness or Made in Moscow?1969
The God Haters: Angry Atheists, Shallow Scholars, Silly Scientists, Pagan Preachers and Embattled Evolutionists Declare War Against Christians by Don Boys (2015-09-18)
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sword said:
Move on?
Because many many many people have been influenced by him for example the 123 repeat after me 456 hope it sticks crowd. FBCH hasn't denounced this neither has Paul Chappell Jack Trieber or any others of the like. They may have spoke against it, lightly, but REFUSE to call Jack Hyles as the root teacher of such doctrine and until then, SHAME ON THEM, for being more loyal to a movement/Jack Hyles than the Scriptures.
Move on? These men need to become men.
sword said:
He may be gone, but his influence, for good or bad, lives on. You have people like Bob Gray, Sr who continue to exalt everything he did and push for the numbers-only nonsense. That influence is worth preaching against and fighting.
I actually don't obsess about JH; I used his name because he is pretty well known on this forum, and made a good example.
It is not water under the bridge when people are still trying to emulate him and are pushing his materials and the unscriptural methods he used. That's why it is worth fighting.
He's not quite "ancient" history. I'm quite ready to move on when people stop exalting him beyond measure.
As I said before, I'm thankful for all of those who have turned out well in spite of the problems with Hyles & HAC, and who serve God faithfully in any capacity. I'm sure that there are many, many who fit this role.
But we still have those who want to be a second JH with people fawning all over them, and hanging on their every word.
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Every man will give an account of HIMSELF to God. I'm certain there has been abuse and mistreatment....but at some point you must move on. Not for anyone's sake but yours'.
My experience is that many recovering fundamentalists recover so far that they end up outside the need for assembling together with other believers and some recover all the way to a false belief system.
I can only imagine that at the judgment seat "the fundys made me do it" will be the end all panacea.
Get a grip....
My experience is that many recovering fundamentalists recover so far that they end up outside the need for assembling together with other believers and some recover all the way to a false belief system.
I can only imagine that at the judgment seat "the fundys made me do it" will be the end all panacea.
Get a grip....
Walt said:
I understand it the Fundamental Fighting Forums but why must we fight with each other so much. I have a set of standards I practice and attend a church the shares those beliefs. I have many friends who share my standards. I also have many friends who have different standards than mine who go to churches with their standards. I also have a few friends whose churches do not match their standards and they are always complaining about.
I don't care what standards your church has or does not have and you should not care what standards you have. Were never going to agree so why do we try. You preach what you think & we will preach what we think the bible says & God expects. Same with your bible or your music or whatever.
Why must we fight with each other all the time.
I never hears people come on here and talk about Mormons, JW's, The Amish, Mennonites, Pentecostal's or any of the other brands. Were just fight with each other and trade members back and forth.
There are only 15 million Mormons worldwide yet they had 85,000 missionaries at any given time & that number is growing. Most of these missionaries are fully funded at the start of their mission. You will not find fighting in the Mormon church just a united effort to convert the world.
I never hears people come on here and talk about Mormons, JW's, The Amish, Mennonites, Pentecostal's or any of the other brands. Were just fight with each other and trade members back and forth.
There are only 15 million Mormons worldwide yet they had 85,000 missionaries at any given time & that number is growing. Most of these missionaries are fully funded at the start of their mission. You will not find fighting in the Mormon church just a united effort to convert the world.
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Off the top my head, I believe it's in Galatians, who withstood who over doctrine?
Jack Hyles preached a false gospel and taught how many to preach that false gospel and what big name in the Hyles side of the IFB has denounced Jack Hyles for this?
Division over doctrine is biblical.
I gotta go back to work I'm already late.
Jack Hyles preached a false gospel and taught how many to preach that false gospel and what big name in the Hyles side of the IFB has denounced Jack Hyles for this?
Division over doctrine is biblical.
I gotta go back to work I'm already late.
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sword said:
Maybe he is still talked about because of the"influence" he had on so many men. If he reproduced his philosophy of ministry in the hearts and minds of men preaching today then it is relevant to speak to his errors.
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sword said:
Did he write three and two books with the same title, or is he trying to count multiple editions of the same books as different books? I smell some resume padding.
Hahaha! If I had written a Y2K scare book, I would have taken it off my CV on January 2, 2000.
Then again, I know of one Christian bookstore that was still selling Grant Jeffrey's Millennium Meltdown two years after the fact at full price.
Commies!
Embattled what? Endocrinologists? Epistemologists? Emo kids?