As pastor, what would you do?

TimbauxRioux

TimbauxRioux

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Greetings from New Orleans.....

Just wanted to throw out a topic..i fishing for opinions.

Suppose a woman wants to make a surprise announcement in church, good news, something to be thrilled about. You say ok. She gets up there and screams "I am going to be a grandmother!!!"

Problem is, her daughter is 13 years old, and will have that baby just shy of turning 14. How would you respond to that, if not verballly (or in sign language, for us), and what kind of facial expressions would you show?

Then...suppose you have a policy that allows church members to use the church for free for bridal and baby showers. Do you allow them use of the facilities for a baby shower (in the situation explained above)?
 
Is it normal for New Orleans........ i tell ya a story...

One year in Chalmette, on Mothers Day, i was invited to teach Deaf SS class. We went to the Hearing church for morning service. They had a special.. they giving out flowers to the OLDEST and YOUNGEST mothers in the service. They started with the oldest..every mother of 65 yrs old stood up..then they said 70 yrs old..many sat down..on and on.. oldest mother was i think 94. Standing ovation.

Now time for youngest... every mother under 25 stand up... then under 20... then 18..and the pastor's face changed colors... 17... 16... still a few standing... turns out youngest mother is 14 years old.... ... slow clapping. After church the pastor told me in all his years he doesnt think he made a more stupid mistake in front of so many people.

Yeah.... we had a 14 yr old pregnant deaf girl wanting to go to Deaf camp... and I am just an evangelist...so I didnt make the call but gave input. The pastor decided she cant go to camp... half the people in church were mad. "You judged her". "You racist!" etc.

just fishing for a few opinions i can share with my folks when i preach next time
 
Whoever impreganted these girls should be prosecuted if they are adults or more than 2 years older. Have the police been called in to investigate already?

As a pastor you might be a mandatory reporter.
 
TimbauxRioux said:
Greetings from New Orleans.....

Just wanted to throw out a topic..i fishing for opinions.

Suppose a woman wants to make a surprise announcement in church, good news, something to be thrilled about. You say ok. She gets up there and screams "I am going to be a grandmother!!!"

Problem is, her daughter is 13 years old, and will have that baby just shy of turning 14. How would you respond to that, if not verballly (or in sign language, for us), and what kind of facial expressions would you show?

Then...suppose you have a policy that allows church members to use the church for free for bridal and baby showers. Do you allow them use of the facilities for a baby shower (in the situation explained above)?
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So, either you are fishing to rip into someone, or you are looking for input. Not sure of which, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now, I don't know grandma, so my answer needs to be tailored to suit her specifically, maybe she hasn't been saved long, but Pastor needs to talk to her and explain that this is not something to be excited about.

The baby shower, now it is for the 13 yr old, not grandma, and if the 13 year old is a member, surely she is under some form of counsel and under some measure of observation that she is not still in sin if she is not under discipline. If she is under discipline, she is not a member in good standing, so they cant use the building. If she is not under discipline, perhaps the Pastor and his wife could take over having the shower so that some measure of understanding is put forth as to the intent, simply to help her in her situation as opposed to advocating or celebrating her conduct.

If no one is talking to grandma, and no one is talking to the 13 yr old, and if no one is putting some expectations on her to maintain her membership, what difference will it make not having the shower, no one would care about her conduct anyway.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
Whoever impreganted these girls should be prosecuted if they are adults or more than 2 years older. Have the police been called in to investigate already?
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Agreed.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
TimbauxRioux said:
Greetings from New Orleans.....

Just wanted to throw out a topic..i fishing for opinions.

Suppose a woman wants to make a surprise announcement in church, good news, something to be thrilled about. You say ok. She gets up there and screams "I am going to be a grandmother!!!"

Problem is, her daughter is 13 years old, and will have that baby just shy of turning 14. How would you respond to that, if not verballly (or in sign language, for us), and what kind of facial expressions would you show?

Then...suppose you have a policy that allows church members to use the church for free for bridal and baby showers. Do you allow them use of the facilities for a baby shower (in the situation explained above)?
Click to expand...
So, either you are fishing to rip into someone, or you are looking for input. Not sure of which, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now, I don't know grandma, so my answer needs to be tailored to suit her specifically, maybe she hasn't been saved long, but Pastor needs to talk to her and explain that this is not something to be excited about.

The baby shower, now it is for the 13 yr old, not grandma, and if the 13 year old is a member, surely she is under some form of counsel and under some measure of observation that she is not still in sin if she is not under discipline. If she is under discipline, she is not a member in good standing, so they cant use the building. If she is not under discipline, perhaps the Pastor and his wife could take over having the shower so that some measure of understanding is put forth as to the intent, simply to help her in her situation as opposed to advocating or celebrating her conduct.

If no one is talking to grandma, and no one is talking to the 13 yr old, and if no one is putting some expectations on her to maintain her membership, what difference will it make not having the shower, no one would care about her conduct anyway.
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Wow. Your first instinct is to church discipline this kid. Your first instinct is somehow not to find out who impregnated this poor girl, since 13 is too young to consent. ABG is correct. You on the other hand, have no business giving input on this topic.
 
Breezy said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
TimbauxRioux said:
Greetings from New Orleans.....

Just wanted to throw out a topic..i fishing for opinions.

Suppose a woman wants to make a surprise announcement in church, good news, something to be thrilled about. You say ok. She gets up there and screams "I am going to be a grandmother!!!"

Problem is, her daughter is 13 years old, and will have that baby just shy of turning 14. How would you respond to that, if not verballly (or in sign language, for us), and what kind of facial expressions would you show?

Then...suppose you have a policy that allows church members to use the church for free for bridal and baby showers. Do you allow them use of the facilities for a baby shower (in the situation explained above)?
Click to expand...
So, either you are fishing to rip into someone, or you are looking for input. Not sure of which, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now, I don't know grandma, so my answer needs to be tailored to suit her specifically, maybe she hasn't been saved long, but Pastor needs to talk to her and explain that this is not something to be excited about.

The baby shower, now it is for the 13 yr old, not grandma, and if the 13 year old is a member, surely she is under some form of counsel and under some measure of observation that she is not still in sin if she is not under discipline. If she is under discipline, she is not a member in good standing, so they cant use the building. If she is not under discipline, perhaps the Pastor and his wife could take over having the shower so that some measure of understanding is put forth as to the intent, simply to help her in her situation as opposed to advocating or celebrating her conduct.

If no one is talking to grandma, and no one is talking to the 13 yr old, and if no one is putting some expectations on her to maintain her membership, what difference will it make not having the shower, no one would care about her conduct anyway.
Click to expand...

Wow. Your first instinct is to church discipline this kid. Your first instinct is somehow not to find out who impregnated this poor girl, since 13 is too young to consent. ABG is correct. You on the other hand, have no business giving input on this topic.
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So, here we are on the FFF with garbage answers. Nowhere in my post did I say anything like what you posted, which either makes you a total idiot or simply dishonest. I care little of your opinion of whether I should give input or not.

I answered the question. You didn't. You didn't give input, probably because you can't formulate an opinion of your own, or give a logical answer to a question asked. Your disingenuous response is a simple indicator of that.

Wanna return to the question, or hi-jack the thread because you have an axe to grind and a drum to pound?
 
Actually you said: "if the 13 year old is a member, surely she is under some form of counsel and under some measure of observation that she is not still in sin if she is not under discipline." Then you suggested that if she was not under church discipline, the pastor and his wife could do something to help her without "advocating or celebrating her conduct".

Phrases like "still in sin" and "her conduct"  imply that your first instincts are to assume wrongdoing on the part of the girl. Nowhere did you suggest that the authorities be called or that you would seriously consider this to be a potential rape.

I stated I agree with AmazedbyGrace, and there isn't much more I have to say. Find out who impregnated her, and call the cops if it's someone 2 years older or more.
 
What has any of that got to do with the shower? Why also do you assume that if the authourities neede to be called that they weren't? What makes you think a 13 yr old girl never bears any responsibility in an immoral act?
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
What has any of that got to do with the shower? Why also do you assume that if the authourities neede to be called that they weren't? What makes you think a 13 yr old girl never bears any responsibility in an immoral act?
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Your immediate focus on church discipline, the girl's behavior and the particulars of where and if to host a shower imply an assumption on your part that this girl has done something wrong and needs to be punished. If calling the cops is necessary, it would be odd to also administer church discipline. 13 year old girls cannot legally consent to sexual intercourse. They are also much more likely to actually need the support of the community than would an adult married woman.
 
Breezy said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
What has any of that got to do with the shower? Why also do you assume that if the authourities neede to be called that they weren't? What makes you think a 13 yr old girl never bears any responsibility in an immoral act?
Click to expand...

Your immediate focus on church discipline, the girl's behavior and the particulars of where and if to host a shower imply an assumption on your part that this girl has done something wrong and needs to be punished. If calling the cops is necessary, it would be odd to also administer church discipline. 13 year old girls cannot legally consent to sexual intercourse. They are also much more likely to actually need the support of the community than would an adult married woman.
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My immediate focus was not on church discipline as you imply. Grandma is highly unlikely to be excited about her molested granddaughter's pending delivery. If calling the cops was necessary, there would be no question about whether to have the shower or not, but it seems there is a question, implying the 13 yr old made a choice. The fact that it is not legal does not mean she has no moral obligation to make moral choices. If your 10 yr old son steals a candy bar, IT IS NOT LEGAL, but he knew not to, and there needs to be consequences, if you don't think so, please don't procreate and add to the already overburdened prison system.
 
IP answers the question and gets ripped for "assuming" the girl had some culpability in the situation.

But those ripping him, ignore the part where "grandma" is excited and assume that the girl has been raped.

Interestingly all of you could be right. The "father" could be her 14 year old boy friend, her uncle/brother/cousin/father, her youth leader, her math teacher, the beat cop in the neighborhood, a wandering hobo or anyone else with a Y chromosome. May be a crime. Maybe not. But how many of those possibilities would leave "grandma" excited to tell the congregation? And if there was a criminal act involved wouldn't it seem likely that the pastor would already know because the lady came to him horrified at what had happened to her little girl?

So if IP is a bad guy for assuming that the girl was a willing participant, what does it make those who assume that her mom is a total moron?
 
Y'all stop fighting. its not what I wanted to do..start a fight. I am trying to find out various opinions and angles.

this is from 1990s, early.. the girl is very low IQ, her mother is no better, and they were not coming to church much at all, as a matter of fact, the girl almost never came to church. The boyfriend, i believe turned 16 right before the baby was born. I never met him. The mother popped up and wanted free use of the facilities for a baby shower.

All i am asking is what would you do in terms of allowing or not allowing the girl to have her baby shower in the church? thats all. Sheesh.

Just answer that. no need to fight
 
TimbauxRioux said:
Y'all stop fighting. its not what I wanted to do..start a fight. I am trying to find out various opinions and angles.

Just answer that. no need to fight
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Welcome to FF  :D
 
TimbauxRioux said:
Y'all stop fighting. its not what I wanted to do..start a fight. I am trying to find out various opinions and angles.
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You are in the wrong place my friend.  :-\































;D
 
i know yall fight all the time.... just asking... would you allow the use of the building to someone who never comes to church and is not a member? talking about the pregnant girl.

if no, WHY, what reason would you give?
 
TimbauxRioux said:
i know yall fight all the time.... just asking... would you allow the use of the building to someone who never comes to church and is not a member? talking about the pregnant girl.

if no, WHY, what reason would you give?
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Just tell them they have a low IQ, and you won't need to worry about them much longer ..... seriously, you are a pastor?
 
,tim... what would you do?

seriously.. i was not the pastor of that church. The pastor took a lot of heat for decisions he made on such things.. and he didnt make those decisions quickly or without talking to other pastors..
 
TimbauxRioux said:
,tim... what would you do?

seriously.. i was not the pastor of that church. The pastor took a lot of heat for decisions he made on such things.. and he didnt make those decisions quickly or without talking to other pastors..
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I might allow the use of the fellowship hall for the baby shower - praying that the compassion seen from the Church would speak to them in some way. But - I can also see wisdom in simply telling them they need to repent and be right and their sins keep the Church from being available in this way.
 
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