Baptist Distinctives. Distinct and different from...?

[bgwilkinson]

Who or what is the object of the distinction or what or who is it that Baptists claim as the object of comparison?

Where or when in history do we first find this differentiation?

What are some good books that discuss the origin of the Baptist distinctives not just a listing and description of them.

 

[Ransom]

I have not read them (only excerpts here and there) but two books by R. Stanton Norman, More Than Just a Name and The Baptist Way appear to me as though they would be helpful.

 

[FSSL]

Great thread... "Baptist Distinctives" who developed this idea? According to Bush and Nettles, these are ideas formulated well after the establishment of the Baptists:

"Early Baptists did not think exclusively in terms of Baptist distinctives. They affirmed Christian doctrines. They believed that they were being true to Scripture in their view of the ordinances, their view of God, and so forth, and they called on other Christians to join them in their faithfulness." Baptists and the Bible (Revised and expanded) (341). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers. my emphasis

I have at least two thoughts on this...

1) I believe that Confessional Baptist origins has been replaced by a list of "distinctives" which relates more to polity than it does doctrine. The Reformed Baptists and SBC Founders Movement have worked to get us back to our Confessional/Creedal roots.

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved Church Membership
Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons
Separation of Church and State

Example 1: in 2005, one author (R. Stanton Norman) included "The Lordship of Jesus Christ" as a Baptist Distinctive. Until that book, I have NEVER seen this as a main point.

Example 2: I was taught that Separation was both Ecclesiastical AND Personal. This was an attempt to embrace 1970s fundamentalist standards as part of being a "Baptist."

While it is a good acronym, I fear that most stop there. They do not realize that a reliance on this acronym as a definition of "Baptist" actually makes polity more important than doctrine.

 

[prophet]

Great thread... "Baptist Distinctives" who developed this idea? According to Bush and Nettles, these are ideas formulated well after the establishment of the Baptists:

"Early Baptists did not think exclusively in terms of Baptist distinctives. They affirmed Christian doctrines. They believed that they were being true to Scripture in their view of the ordinances, their view of God, and so forth, and they called on other Christians to join them in their faithfulness." Baptists and the Bible (Revised and expanded) (341). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers. my emphasis

I have at least two thoughts on this...

1) I believe that Confessional Baptist origins has been replaced by a list of "distinctives" which relates more to polity than it does doctrine. The Reformed Baptists have worked to get us back to our Confessional/Creedal roots.

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved Church Membership
Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons
Separation of Church and State

Example 1: in 2005, one author (R. Stanton Norman) included "The Lordship of Jesus Christ" as a Baptist Distinctive. Until that book, I have NEVER seen this as a main point.

Example 2: I was taught that Separation was both Ecclesiastical AND Personal. This was an attempt to embrace 1970s fundamentalist standards as part of being a "Baptist."

While it is a good acronym, I fear that most stop there. They do not realize that a reliance on this acronym as a definition of "Baptist" actually makes polity more important than doctrine.

I don't think that that last "s" has been around as long as the first 7.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Great thread... "Baptist Distinctives" who developed this idea? According to Bush and Nettles, these are ideas formulated well after the establishment of the Baptists:

"Early Baptists did not think exclusively in terms of Baptist distinctives. They affirmed Christian doctrines. They believed that they were being true to Scripture in their view of the ordinances, their view of God, and so forth, and they called on other Christians to join them in their faithfulness." Baptists and the Bible (Revised and expanded) (341). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers. my emphasis

I have at least two thoughts on this...

1) I believe that Confessional Baptist origins has been replaced by a list of "distinctives" which relates more to polity than it does doctrine. The Reformed Baptists have worked to get us back to our Confessional/Creedal roots.

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved Church Membership
Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons
Separation of Church and State

Example 1: in 2005, one author (R. Stanton Norman) included "The Lordship of Jesus Christ" as a Baptist Distinctive. Until that book, I have NEVER seen this as a main point.

Example 2: I was taught that Separation was both Ecclesiastical AND Personal. This was an attempt to embrace 1970s fundamentalist standards as part of being a "Baptist."

While it is a good acronym, I fear that most stop there. They do not realize that a reliance on this acronym as a definition of "Baptist" actually makes polity more important than doctrine.

I don't think that that last "s" has been around as long as the first 7.

Depends on which strain of Baptists you look at.
Many/most mainstream Baptists trace their roots to the English Separatist  Movement.
"No Bishops, No King" was their mantra.
Now, others believe John the Baptist was their founding Pastor. 

 

[Bruh]

Great thread... "Baptist Distinctives" who developed this idea? According to Bush and Nettles, these are ideas formulated well after the establishment of the Baptists:

"Early Baptists did not think exclusively in terms of Baptist distinctives. They affirmed Christian doctrines. They believed that they were being true to Scripture in their view of the ordinances, their view of God, and so forth, and they called on other Christians to join them in their faithfulness." Baptists and the Bible (Revised and expanded) (341). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers. my emphasis

I have at least two thoughts on this...

1) I believe that Confessional Baptist origins has been replaced by a list of "distinctives" which relates more to polity than it does doctrine. The Reformed Baptists have worked to get us back to our Confessional/Creedal roots.

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved Church Membership
Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons
Separation of Church and State

Example 1: in 2005, one author (R. Stanton Norman) included "The Lordship of Jesus Christ" as a Baptist Distinctive. Until that book, I have NEVER seen this as a main point.

Example 2: I was taught that Separation was both Ecclesiastical AND Personal. This was an attempt to embrace 1970s fundamentalist standards as part of being a "Baptist."

While it is a good acronym, I fear that most stop there. They do not realize that a reliance on this acronym as a definition of "Baptist" actually makes polity more important than doctrine.

I don't think that that last "s" has been around as long as the first 7.

The church I grew up Spiritually in believes that you are not a member of that church till you are Baptized, not at Salvation.     

 

[Ransom]

I don't think that that last "s" has been around as long as the first 7.

It's been around as long as there have been Baptists - since the early 17th century. The Baptists were part of the English Radical Reformation and wanted to be free to worship outside of the control of the ecclesiastical control of the Church of England.

 

[christundivided]

It's rather hilarious how Baptist try to say they are a distinct group and then turn right around claim autonomy. You can't pin them down to "save your life".

Much the same thing that has happened to the non-denominational movement. They are a DIVISION unto themselves.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority

And yet so man Baptist preachers teach things that are clearly unbiblical.  They simply insist it's Biblical. 

Saved Church Membership

And yet honest pastors freely admit that some percentage of their membership is unsaved, and a high percentage of the regular attendees are unsaved.

Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons

Well, that's not surprising.

 

[christundivided]

I don't think that that last "s" has been around as long as the first 7.

It's been around as long as there have been Baptists - since the early 17th century. The Baptists were part of the English Radical Reformation and wanted to be free to worship outside of the control of the ecclesiastical control of the Church of England.

Yeah.... like the reformers were controlled by the Church of England....

Makes perfect sense....

It was an excuse, not a reason.

 

[christundivided]

Great thread... "Baptist Distinctives" who developed this idea? According to Bush and Nettles, these are ideas formulated well after the establishment of the Baptists:

"Early Baptists did not think exclusively in terms of Baptist distinctives. They affirmed Christian doctrines. They believed that they were being true to Scripture in their view of the ordinances, their view of God, and so forth, and they called on other Christians to join them in their faithfulness." Baptists and the Bible (Revised and expanded) (341). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers. my emphasis

I have at least two thoughts on this...

1) I believe that Confessional Baptist origins has been replaced by a list of "distinctives" which relates more to polity than it does doctrine. The Reformed Baptists and SBC Founders Movement have worked to get us back to our Confessional/Creedal roots.

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved Church Membership
Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons
Separation of Church and State

Example 1: in 2005, one author (R. Stanton Norman) included "The Lordship of Jesus Christ" as a Baptist Distinctive. Until that book, I have NEVER seen this as a main point.

Example 2: I was taught that Separation was both Ecclesiastical AND Personal. This was an attempt to embrace 1970s fundamentalist standards as part of being a "Baptist."

While it is a good acronym, I fear that most stop there. They do not realize that a reliance on this acronym as a definition of "Baptist" actually makes polity more important than doctrine.

Christianity is the only proper distinction. Everything else..... is nothing more than some man's prideful attempt to place value upon his own choice. His own group. His own distinction.

 

[TimbauxRioux]

2) No two authors agree as to what the "Baptist Distinctives" are. This is a problem. They have considerable overlaps, but each author likes to interject his own idea. The Southern Baptists in the 1960s developed this popular acronym:

Biblical Authority

And yet so man Baptist preachers teach things that are clearly unbiblical.  They simply insist it's Biblical. 

Saved Church Membership

And yet honest pastors freely admit that some percentage of their membership is unsaved, and a high percentage of the regular attendees are unsaved.

Two Offices: Pastors and Deacons

Well, that's not surprising.

Rogue Tomato..what type of church do you attend?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I don't think that that last "s" has been around as long as the first 7.

I think it has been around a while but not historically defined today. The intent was never to keep the church out of the state, but rather to keep the state out of the church. After all, the church is made up of citizens who have every right to participate in government.

You need look no further than John Leland, a Baptist pastor who was instrumental in America adopting the Bill of Rights. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Rogue Tomato..what type of church do you attend?

We just moved.  Right now we attend a small NT-style church that meets in an apartment meeting house (not sure what you'd call it officially).  There is no pastor.  There is a leader or two of sorts, but they don't preach.  Those who feel called to speak on the weekly topic stand up, one by one, and speak.  Usually about 5 people speak.  I've never been one of them. 

While I like the format, there are reasons why I don't plan to stay there for very long.  I'd rather not share those reasons, but I'll tell you it's no reflection on the people there.  They're loving and wonderful. 

 

[TimbauxRioux]

Rogue Tomato..what type of church do you attend?

We just moved.  Right now we attend a small NT-style church that meets in an apartment meeting house (not sure what you'd call it officially).

My friend attended such a church until he found out it was The Way International. eek.  It aint easy finding good churches on catholic south louisiana

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Rogue Tomato..what type of church do you attend?

We just moved.  Right now we attend a small NT-style church that meets in an apartment meeting house (not sure what you'd call it officially).

My friend attended such a church until he found out it was The Way International. eek.  It aint easy finding good churches on catholic south louisiana

I'm not familiar with The Way International.  If it's a good assembly and the people are the body of Christ, and the teaching people share is Biblical and true, then what difference does it make what affiliation it might have? 

 

[Ransom]

It's rather hilarious how Baptist try to say they are a distinct group

I have no idea who you're trying to accuse here. "Baptists"? You're being indistinct.

 

[Ransom]

Yeah.... like the reformers were controlled by the Church of England....

What stupidity are you smugly asserting now?

 

[christundivided]

Yeah.... like the reformers were controlled by the Church of England....

What stupidity are you smugly asserting now?

Do you really want to discuss this or are you just throwing one liners around?

I was bashing the idea the that persecution produced modern Baptist.

 

[Ransom]

Do you really want to discuss this or are you just throwing one liners around?

With you, I'll go for option b).

I was bashing the idea the that persecution produced modern Baptist.

How nice for you. I didn't say that persecution produced modern Baptist [sic]. Learn to read, stupid.