Be imitators/followers of Paul

[prophet]

[quote author=prophet]...

WHO HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT PASTORAL AUTHORITY IN THIS THREAD OTHER THAN YOU????

You did. In fact, you opened with it...original post, first paragraph, last sentence:

"Notice how Paul wields the authority of one who has been delegated the power to command others to observe and learn from his life examples and teachings" - Alayman

He is either playing some game here, or is functionally illiterate.

Earnestly Contend

He just can never admit when he's wrong.  Even after you prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt.
[/quote]
I can't breast feed him all day long.

He claims he can't understand me, so I recommend that he not read my posts.
His reaction?  Follows me around yelling "You won't talk to me!" at my back.

Sad thing is, I think he knows full well what the false doctrine of "pastoral authority" has to do with the extreme cessassionist position, and how it all ties into this thread.



Earnestly Contend

 

[praise_yeshua]

Again. You're deflecting and twisting the facts.

1Co 15:9  For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul said such things because he persecuted the church before his conversion. Don't drag him down to the level of those today. He's better than that. I'm not trying to "praise Paul" I give God the glory for his example that I can follow through the Scriptures.

The revelation of God that we have through the ministry of Paul is essential to the body of Christ. You have no other comparison to make that reachs the magnitude of his gift to the church. Not even close.

Paul didn't just commend himself, as he also spoke well of others who followed the Christlike example of more than just Timothy.

I commend those that follow Christ. I don't follow them as an example. We already have perfect examples. You're grasping at straws to defend your belief. Just let it go. It'll feel good..... I promise.

 

[ALAYMAN]

He claims he can't understand me, so I recommend that he not read my posts.
His reaction?  Follows me around yelling "You won't talk to me!" at my back.

ROFLOL!  Dude, you are hilarious.  Do you remember this post of yours to me...

Please ignore this like you did my last post.

Earnestly Contend

I ignored your weird contribution, so you practically begged me to respond, and when I did interact with your bizarre post by asking you to explain the connection you went into ostrich mode.  Well, at least I tried.  Back to ignore-ville you go.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Again. You're deflecting and twisting the facts.

1Co 15:9  For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul said such things because he persecuted the church before his conversion. Don't drag him down to the level of those today. He's better than that. I'm not trying to "praise Paul" I give God the glory for his example that I can follow through the Scriptures.

The revelation of God that we have through the ministry of Paul is essential to the body of Christ. You have no other comparison to make that reachs the magnitude of his gift to the church. Not even close.

Paul didn't just commend himself, as he also spoke well of others who followed the Christlike example of more than just Timothy.

I commend those that follow Christ. I don't follow them as an example. We already have perfect examples. You're grasping at straws to defend your belief. Just let it go. It'll feel good..... I promise.

Nothing wrong with discipling people, and nothing wrong with people looking to be discipled.  I wish somebody would have taken that role more seriously with me and my wife after we were first saved.  Maybe we wouldn't have dropped out of church and service for a decade in our 20s if they had.

 

[prophet]

He claims he can't understand me, so I recommend that he not read my posts.
His reaction?  Follows me around yelling "You won't talk to me!" at my back.

Still not sure why you showed up to answer that post, I wasn't talking to you.

You must consider yourself a rabid cessationist.



Earnestly Contend

 

[praise_yeshua]

Again. You're deflecting and twisting the facts.

1Co 15:9  For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul said such things because he persecuted the church before his conversion. Don't drag him down to the level of those today. He's better than that. I'm not trying to "praise Paul" I give God the glory for his example that I can follow through the Scriptures.

The revelation of God that we have through the ministry of Paul is essential to the body of Christ. You have no other comparison to make that reachs the magnitude of his gift to the church. Not even close.

Paul didn't just commend himself, as he also spoke well of others who followed the Christlike example of more than just Timothy.

I commend those that follow Christ. I don't follow them as an example. We already have perfect examples. You're grasping at straws to defend your belief. Just let it go. It'll feel good..... I promise.

Nothing wrong with discipling people, and nothing wrong with people looking to be discipled.  I wish somebody would have taken that role more seriously with me and my wife after we were first saved.  Maybe we wouldn't have dropped out of church and service for a decade in our 20s if they had.

Discipleship is about pointing to our proper examples. Not about getting others to follow us.

Job 42:5  I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6  Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Discipleship is about pointing to our proper examples. Not about getting others to follow us.

Why does the "proper examples" have to be somebody else?

Job 42:5  I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6  Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

What's the relevance?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Discipleship is about pointing to our proper examples. Not about getting others to follow us.

Why does the "proper examples" have to be somebody else?

1. It expresses humility.
2. They are better than us. They are better examples in every way imaginable. Why can't you see this?

What's the relevance?

Job had only went by what he had heard. What he saw around him. The "examples" you're want others to follow.... Those he could see and touch.

Job finally saw God for WHO He is.... and He repented. He finally got to the source and the source was different than the examples around him....

 

[ALAYMAN]

1. It expresses humility.
2. They are better than us. They are better examples in every way imaginable. Why can't you see this?

1) Then Paul (and other leaders in the Bible) weren't humble.
2) Who is "they"?  And how are "they" better examples to those living today who more easily can translate what they see in the here and now?

Job had only went by what he had heard. What he saw around him. The "examples" you're want others to follow.... Those he could see and touch.

Job finally saw God for WHO He is.... and He repented. He finally got to the source and the source was different than the examples around him....

Right, and when Paul said "as I follow Christ" that is precisely the proper focus and perspective for earthly examples.  He wanted people to follow his example only in so far as it matched up with the real Christ.  But for immature beleivers, whose faith is often weak at the beginning of their journey, they are more able to perceive the reality of faith when they see it lived out before them.

 

[praise_yeshua]

1) Then Paul (and other leaders in the Bible) weren't humble.
2) Who is "they"?  And how are "they" better examples to those living today who more easily can translate what they see in the here and now?

1. What others? and Paul was humble. He did it out of necessity. You aren't like Paul. You know no one like Paul. Name someone who is???
2. Jesus. The apostle. Sorry Alayman. You're not them. You don't know anyone like them. Not even close. Your comparison fails. You can't apply their example as being your own. You're not even close to being them. No one you know is.

We point to them. Not to ourselves. We have their example. Their example is the source. Not you.

Right, and when Paul said "as I follow Christ" that is precisely the proper focus and perspective for earthly examples.  He wanted people to follow his example only in so far as it matched up with the real Christ.

Okay. We can agree.

But for immature beleivers, whose faith is often weak at the beginning of their journey, they are more able to perceive the reality of faith when they see it lived out before them.

No. Not even close. Where did you get this? It didn't come from the Scripture. Provide evidence to support your claim?

You don't change the source because someone can't fully comprehend it. You don't.... at any time....substitute weakness.... for perfection.

 

[ALAYMAN]

No. Not even close. Where did you get this? It didn't come from the Scripture. Provide evidence to support your claim?

You don't change the source because someone can't fully comprehend it. You don't.... at any time....substitute weakness.... for perfection.

It's not "changing the source".  That's a poor description of being a witness and discipler of people.

Here's just two verse that talks about how faith is bolstered by others.


And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No. Not even close. Where did you get this? It didn't come from the Scripture. Provide evidence to support your claim?

You don't change the source because someone can't fully comprehend it. You don't.... at any time....substitute weakness.... for perfection.

It's not "changing the source".  That's a poor description of being a witness and discipler of people.

Here's just two verse that talks about how faith is bolstered by others.


And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.

Yes. The very Righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

However, this isn't an example to follow. Again. We point to the source and make them disciples of Christ.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Yes. The very Righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

However, this isn't an example to follow. Again. We point to the source and make them disciples of Christ.

I don't see a distinction in what you're saying that is worthwhile.  That process of "pointing them to Christ" involves an element of followship.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Yes. The very Righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

However, this isn't an example to follow. Again. We point to the source and make them disciples of Christ.

I don't see a distinction in what you're saying that is worthwhile.  That process of "pointing them to Christ" involves an element of followship.

And I think the less we think of ourselves the quicker they will be plugged directly into Christ and not us.

 

[ALAYMAN]

And I think the less we think of ourselves the quicker they will be plugged directly into Christ and not us.

I think I know what you mean, and agree, but nevertheless, it is impossible to extract ourselves from the equation, and I don't think we ever should, because as long as we are alive we are to be available as a witness and help for any and all who might be edified by our lives in Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

And I think the less we think of ourselves the quicker they will be plugged directly into Christ and not us.

I think I know what you mean, and agree, but nevertheless, it is impossible to extract ourselves from the equation, and I don't think we ever should, because as long as we are alive we are to be available as a witness and help for any and all who might be edified by our lives in Christ.

So you don't ever think there is a time we should just get out of the way?

You know there is.