Bill Gothard

I thought he'd already tipped over.

You shall know a tree by its fruit.

God's will be done.
 
I'm thankful that I heard of him through a "doubter" rather than a follower. When I did meet my first follower I had a goodly amount of skepticism on hand.

Extended family members went whole hog. They spent $10k on getting his vasectomy reversed so they could atone for the sin of having only two kids. Didn't work. Adopted four children from "troubled" homes (hellscapes in reality). Then proceeded to make their lives worse. Now divorced and four of their kids have "deconstructed".

Legalistic performance rituals.
 
I'm sorry that Bill Gothard is sick and I wish him well. I attended the Basic and Advanced Bill Gothard seminars. I was mostly impressed with him at the time, but many of us former Gothard followers, including Jinger Duggar, have seen through the flaws in his philosophy, including the abusive "chain of command" and "umbrella of authority" teachings.

For those not familiar with Gothard, his teachings, and the controversies around them, see these web sites:

midwestoutreach.org

Bill Gothard and the Unpaid Bills of the Church

There is a cost, very often a high cost, exacted by false teachers in the lives of their followers. Lives can be crushed. Often people are badly damaged spiritu
midwestoutreach.org

Recovering Grace: A Bill Gothard generation shines light on the teachings of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI)

Recovering Grace exists to help people harmed by the teachings of Bill Gothard, the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP), and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI). Recovering Grace provides a unique perspective in that it was founded and is operated entirely by adults who were raised as...
www.recoveringgrace.org www.recoveringgrace.org

www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com

Letter to the Editor: God Protected My Family From Bill Gothard's Damaging Teachings

LTRP Note: The following letter to the editor is in response to an article Lighthouse Trails posted in June of this year titled “A Look at Shiny Happy People and What the Church Can Learn.” It also comes on the heels...
www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com

www.chicagomag.com

The Cult Next Door

For decades, the people of Hinsdale gave little thought to the mysterious brick building in town. Then came a scandal.
www.chicagomag.com www.chicagomag.com

www.chicagotribune.com

Controversial church leader with Hinsdale ties featured in Amazon docuseries ‘Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets’

For a seven-year span ending in 2015, cable TV viewers from across the country tuned in to TLC to watch the travails of the Duggar family — an Arkansas clan steeped in ultraconservative religious beliefs, perhaps best known for the…
www.chicagotribune.com www.chicagotribune.com
 
Comment from the Sharper Iron forum:

JD Miller
assignment-ind-filled.svg

Mon, 06/29/26 5:39 pm

​

"I didn't know he was still alive. I do know a lot of lives have been destroyed and churches have been disrupted by his teachings. It is sad how many families who embraced his teachings have had sexual abuse in them. (It is not just the Duggers, many people who know Gothard families can testify to the pattern and it was not just from Bill and his brother but often from the boys who grew up in those families). If you do not want your kids and grandkids sexually abused, keep them away from Gothard and his teaching. Even for those who are not theologically astute enough to spot the errors of his teaching, remember that by their fruits you shall know them.

"I fear part of the problem was the teachings oversexualization of women and the idea that if a man stumbled it was always the woman (or girls) fault. Years ago my wife personally spoke to a lady who relayed that she had told Bill Gothard that she was being sexually abused (as a minor) by her brother and Gothard told her it was her fault. The evidence has continued to pile up as years have gone by since then.

"When the Duggar boys and others were taught that their sin was the fault of their sisters and other little girls, then it is no wonder that they felt emboldened to sin as they did.

"This should alert us to the broader issue of the danger of evangelicals in general excusing pornography as all the woman's fault by suggesting that men cannot resist. We tell our boys that temptation will cross their eyes whether they look for it or not, but they have a responsibility to control their thoughts and hearts no matter how attractive an image may be. No doubt God makes women attractive and we should be thankful for that, but that is no excuse for lust."
 
illinoisguy said:
This should alert us to the broader issue of the danger of evangelicals in general excusing pornography as all the woman's fault by suggesting that men cannot resist.
Click to expand...

A very "Muslim" argument. Women need to cover themselves up completely, because if men catch a glimpse of their hair or any skin, they won't be able to control themselves. Hilariously, I recently saw a video of an imam arguing this is also the reason men need to grow beards.
 
illinoisguy said:
Comment from the Sharper Iron forum:

JD Miller
assignment-ind-filled.svg

Mon, 06/29/26 5:39 pm

​

"I didn't know he was still alive. I do know a lot of lives have been destroyed and churches have been disrupted by his teachings. It is sad how many families who embraced his teachings have had sexual abuse in them. (It is not just the Duggers, many people who know Gothard families can testify to the pattern and it was not just from Bill and his brother but often from the boys who grew up in those families). If you do not want your kids and grandkids sexually abused, keep them away from Gothard and his teaching. Even for those who are not theologically astute enough to spot the errors of his teaching, remember that by their fruits you shall know them.

"I fear part of the problem was the teachings oversexualization of women and the idea that if a man stumbled it was always the woman (or girls) fault. Years ago my wife personally spoke to a lady who relayed that she had told Bill Gothard that she was being sexually abused (as a minor) by her brother and Gothard told her it was her fault. The evidence has continued to pile up as years have gone by since then.

"When the Duggar boys and others were taught that their sin was the fault of their sisters and other little girls, then it is no wonder that they felt emboldened to sin as they did.

"This should alert us to the broader issue of the danger of evangelicals in general excusing pornography as all the woman's fault by suggesting that men cannot resist. We tell our boys that temptation will cross their eyes whether they look for it or not, but they have a responsibility to control their thoughts and hearts no matter how attractive an image may be. No doubt God makes women attractive and we should be thankful for that, but that is no excuse for lust."
Click to expand...
I know people very close to me that believe if a woman is dressed inappropriately and she is raped that she holds some of the responsibility. When having this conversation with them it literally made my stomach sick.

I couldn’t believe it. One of them explained it this way, it’s kinda like a choice between a Porscha and a Pinto, does that make sense? I was speechless, literally.

I did say, so if a woman is dressed inappropriately at Walmart, you sin every time? They didn’t want to answer. At least in front of their wives.
 
Bruh said:
I know people very close to me that believe if a woman is dressed inappropriately and she is raped that she holds some of the responsibility. When having this conversation with them it literally made my stomach sick.

I couldn’t believe it. One of them explained it this way, it’s kinda like a choice between a Porscha and a Pinto, does that make sense? I was speechless, literally.

I did say, so if a woman is dressed inappropriately at Walmart, you sin every time? They didn’t want to answer. At least in front of their wives.
Click to expand...
No different than believing a religious teaching is at fault. The rape of Tamar. A problem of Amnon's or a problem with the religion?
 
Ekklesian said:
No different than believing a religious teaching is at fault. The rape of Tamar. A problem of Amnon's or a problem with the religion?
Click to expand...
The difference is is that rape hurts people, to put it mildly. Did Ammon’s religion encourage him to rape a person?
 
The House approved a measure Tuesday compelling the public release of records showing which House members have used taxpayer dollars to settle sexual misconduct charges levied against them and how much money was spent.

The resolution, offered by Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), directs the House Ethics Committee and the Office of Congressional Workplace Rights - which also handles claims of misconduct — to produce such information within 60 days. It passed nearly unanimously, 420-0, with only Rep. Nancy Mace an outspoken advocate for victims of sexual harassment and assault — voting present

(Politico)

I’m sure this was only a simple misstep. Probably, only a few at best elected officials that were doing this. And to add to this, it’s not our government as a whole that are covering things up, only a few. Our government has never covered things up. Therefore, the government can be trusted as a whole including the FDA and Anthony Fauci. If Fauci did anything illegal our government would no doubt investigate him, that I’m sure of.
 
Ekklesian said:
The rape of Tamar.
Click to expand...

Tamar was living according to the Bill Gothard rules. Women are supposed to live with Mom and Dad until marriage, under the protection of their "umbrella of authority." Tamar was living with her Dad, King David. She was under David's "chain of command" and obeying David's specific order to go to Amnon's quarters, 2 Samuel 13:7. She was modestly dressed, "she was wearing a long robe with sleeves, for thus were the virgin daughters of the king dressed." (2 Samuel 13:25, ESV). She was raped anyhow. If this had happened today, followers of Bill Gothard would have blamed it on her and said she must have "defrauded" her horny brother at some point.
 
Gothard‘s philosophy and theology on authority was trash, on that, I think we can all agree. Having said that, is there any basis in biblical truth to say that one Christian can be a stumbling block for another, and if so, can the issue of sexuality and modesty play any factor in this stumbling?
 
Yes, one Christian can be a stumbling block for another.

"Judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. . . . Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died." - Romans 14:13, 15.

"Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God." - 1 Corinthians 10:32

Yes, a Christian woman could give offence to the brethren by attending a church activity dressed in an immodest or otherwise inappropriate manner. However, this would not give any man any excuse or justification for inappropriate sexual behavior or even lust. Christ's proposed remedy for lust was not to force the woman to "cover up" but rather for the man to take the blame and pluck his own eyes out if necessary, Matthew 5:28:29.
 
I'm not sure what the umbrella thing is all about but I believe that there is a responsibility incumbent upon the husband that does not apply to the wife. How you all parse that out is between you and God. As for me and my spouse, we will pursue the instructions of Ephesians as best as we can.
 
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