bishop, bishops, bishopric

logos1560

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On page 4 in another thread entitled "inspired translations", 
Mitex said:
You are on record stating that the words baptism, bishop, etc. are erroneous translations and diminish from the word of God thus condemning both ancient and modern translators alike.

Where is my own direct statement where I supposedly said that "bishop" is an "erroneous" rendering?

Are you perhaps improperly twisting, distorting, and misrepresenting what I have actually stated or wrote since you did not demonstrate that your accusation is correct?



 
Some validly suggest an indication of possible subtle Episcopal bias in the KJV at Acts 20:28.  In his history of Baptists, D. B. Ray noted the following about Acts 20:28 in the KJV: "The word overseers in this passage is episcopous in the Greek--the word which is usually translated bishops; but to have rendered it bishops in this place, would have shown that elder and bishop is the same office, which would have condemned  the  church  of  the translators"  (Baptist Succession, p. 292).  Edward Hiscox quoted Henry Alford, Dean of Canterbury, as saying that the English Version [the KJV] "has hardly dealt fairly in this case with the sacred text in rendering episcopous, v. 28, overseers; whereas, it ought there, as in all other places, to have been bishops, that the fact of elders and bishops having been originally and apostolically synonymous, might be apparent to the English reader" (Principles and Practices for Baptist Churches, p. 90).  If a Church of England Dean can in effect see the bias, why are KJV-only advocates unable to see it?  Four times the KJV had translated the same word as bishops (Phil. 1:1, 1 Tim. 3:2, Titus 1:7, 1 Pet. 2:25). 

In Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown’s Commentary, David Brown asserted that the reason the word was not translated “bishops” at Acts 20:28 was “to avoid the obvious inference that the same persons are here called ‘elders’ (v. 17) and ‘bishops’” (III, p. 150).  Concerning Acts 20:17, 28 in an article entitled “On the Right of Dissenting Ministers to the name of Bishops,“ the author asserted:  “This is a stubborn passage, and a passage that never can be made to bend to diocesan episcopacy.  The translators of King James’s Version saw with what tremendous weight and edge this text would fall on prelacy; therefore, to break its force, and prevent the effects, they introduced a Saxon compound, which has rendered its fall so easy, that the mere English reader never imagines this text to have any hearing on the question of episcopacy” (Congregational Magazine, March, 1827, p. 128).  Another writer observed:  “They retained in all cases but one the old ecclesiastical word bishop, but in Acts 20:20, they did not do so; nor could they, without making it appear that there were several bishops in the church at Ephesus, which would not have agreed with diocesan episcopacy” (Primitive Church Magazine, Vol. IX, June, 1852, p. 170). 

    In The Expositor as edited by Samuel Cox, this is stated:  ‘It can hardly be doubted that the translators avoided the word ‘Bishops’ in Acts 20:28 and put ‘overseers’ instead, because otherwise it would have been obvious that in the Apostolic age the word ‘presbyter’ and ‘bishop’ were practically identical” (Vol. III, p. 301).  James Lillie maintained:  “Because had it there (Acts 20:28) been rendered bishop, everyone would have seen, that in the one Church of Ephesus, there were several bishops.  In that one text alone, therefore, the word is translated, not as everywhere else, transferred, because, there, dust had to be thrown into the common reader’s eyes, lest he should discern the unscriptural nature of English Church government” (Bishops, p. 186).  John Eadie wrote:  “It has also been alleged, and not without some reason, that in Acts 20:28, the rendering of the clause ‘over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers’ is a deflection from the true translation, and conceals the identity of the ‘elders’ with the office-bearers usually named ‘bishops’” (English Bible, II, p. 271).  John Beard suggested that the KJV translators saw that the use of “bishops” at Acts 20:28 would have acknowledged that “plain presbyters were the same as bishops” (Revised English Bible, p. 80).  Jack Lewis wrote:  “It has been thought that the varied use of ’bishoprick’ (Acts 1:20), ’overseers’ (Acts 20:28), ’oversight’ (1 Pet. 5:2), and ’bishop’ (1 Tim. 3:1) was an effort to avoid identification of bishops and elders” (English Bible, p. 63).  John McClintock and James Strong agreed that the use of overseers at Acts 20:28 was “in order to avoid the identification of bishops and elders” (Cyclopaedia, III, p. 218).   

    John Cotton (1584-1652) affirmed that Paul “called for the elders of Ephesus, Acts 20:17, whom also he named Bishops, for so the Greek word is, which is translated overseers, verse 28” (Way, p. 47).  Calibute Downing (1604-1643), who was a son-in-law of KJV translator Richard Brett, referred to “elders or parochial bishops, or bishops of particular congregations; Acts 20:17, 28” (Clear Antithesis, pp. 1-2). John Davenport (1597-1670) noted that “those whom Luke calls elders, in Acts 20:17, Paul calls Bishops in verse 28” (Power, p. 79).  In his 1699 book, Thomas Forrester agreed that Paul described “the elders of that one city [Ephesus] as Bishops” (Hierarchical Bishops, p. 68).  In 1688, David Clarkson affirmed that “elders of the church who are said verse 28 to be made Bishops by the Holy Ghost” (Primitive Episcopacy, p. 10).  Francis Turretin noted that “the Ephesian pastors who are said to be presbyters are also called bishops (Acts 20:28)“ (Institutes, III, pp. 201-202).  Edward Litton noted that “the same persons, whom, at verse 28, St. Paul calls ‘bishops’ are described by St. Luke, at verse 17, as ‘the presbyters of the church’ of Ephesus” (Church, p. 287).  Thomas Smyth observed that “on this occasion, Paul formally enjoined upon its presbyters to continue to act as bishops, and to govern that church of which the Holy Ghost had constituted them the bishops” (Presbytery, p. 260).  Concerning Acts 20:17, 28, George Campbell wrote:  “Here there can be no question that the same persons are denominated presbyters and bishops” (Lectures on Ecclesiastical, p. 72).  Henry Alford observed:  “For ‘overseers,‘ bishops; elders and bishops, in the primitive Church, were the same” (How to Study, p. 351).  Ralph Wardlaw commented:  “overseers--the same word as that usually translated bishops” (Congregational Independency, p. 176).  Zodhiates noted that “the elders of Acts 20:17” at verse 28 “are called bishops” (Complete Word Study, p. 635).  The 1380's Wycliffe's, the 1535 Coverdale's Bible, the 1538 Coverdale's Duoglott New Testament, and 1582 Rheims had rendered it "bishops" in this verse while the other pre-1611 English Bibles had “overseers.”  An edition of the KJV printed in London in 1660 has this marginal note for “overseers”:  “Or bishops.“  In his note on Acts 20:28, Diodati indicated that the Italian Bible has “bishops” at its rendering. One source in 1871, Thomas Abbott observed that it had been “stated that this rendering [overseers] was due to Bancroft’s influence,” but he asserted that it was “erroneously stated” because the rendering “occurs in Tyndale who cannot be suspected of high prelatic notions” (English Bible, p. 42).  Since this verse is not given as one the examples of the 14 changes in Hill’s 1648 sermon and is also not mentioned in the 1671 book about Henry Jessey, this reference could indicate that there were other sources about them available to authors in the 1800’s.   

      Would the rendering “bishops” [plural] at Acts 20:28 for several “elders” [plural] of a church [singular] at one city (Acts 20:17) have been a problem for the prelatic or Episcopal church government view that each bishop is over a diocese or district that may include several churches and that a bishop has authority over elders or pastors?  Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary gave as its second definition for bishop the following:  “in the churches maintaining apostolic succession, a prelate superior to the priesthood, consecrated for the spiritual government and direction of a diocese, bishopric, or see” (p. 187).  Would use of the rendering “bishops” at Acts 20:28 have conflicted with the hierarchical or prelatic sense or definition of the diocesan bishop?  Would not “bishops” have been one of the ecclesiastical words according to the third rule to be used and kept unless its use at this verse in the genuine prelatic sense was considered a problem for the prelates?   Would use of “bishops” at Act 20:28 have demonstrated to English readers that “bishops” and “elders” were names for the same office and that these were not diocesan bishops?  Was “overseers” used at Acts 20:28 in order to prevent English readers from seeing the error of the Episcopal claim that a bishop was superior to an elder? 

David Calderwood (1575-1650) maintained that “the prelate maketh a confusion of names that he may put himself in the place of the apostle” (Pastor and the Prelate, p. 21).  Calderwood noted that “the question is not of the bishop, but of the prelate or diocesan bishop, whether he be the divine bishop” (p. 33).  Calderwood observed that “the diocesan bishop is but one, in a diocese, over many kirks [churches]“ (p. 33).  Calderwood asserted that “the diocesan bishop hath no particular congregation for his flock” (p. 34).  John Davenport maintained:  “Not one bishop over many churches, but many bishops over one church; not diocesan but congregational bishops” (Power, p. 79).  Calibute Downing referred to prelates as “diocesan Lord Bishops, lording over their brethren contrary to Christ’s forbidding” (Clear, pp. 1-2).  At the entry for “bishop,“ Samuel Green asserted that “Diocesan bishops are not known in the New Testament” (Biblical and Theological Dictionary).  William Ames (1576-1633) wrote:  “Ordinary ministers conform to the instituted church and are not ecumenical, national, provincial, or diocesan bishops, but rather elders of one congregation.  In the same sense they are also called bishops in the Scriptures” (Marrow, p. 209).  Ralph Earle wrote:  “Turning to the NT, we discover one fact immediately:  there is no mention of any diocesan bishop” (Word Meanings, p. 389).  In his commentary on Acts, John Phillips maintained that “the word [episkipos] does not envision an Episcopal hierarchy” (p. 405). 

    When quoting from or referring to Acts 20:28 in his book Perpetual Government of Christ‘s Church, Bishop Thomas Bilson, co-editor of the 1611 KJV, had quoted or rendered this word at least five times as “bishops” (pp. 211, 269, 290, 501, 514) and three as “overseers“ (pp. 134, 159, 481).  At least two of those five times as “bishops,” Bilson seemed to be quoting Jerome (pp. 269, 290).  Bilson wrote:  “If all the elders came to Miletum, they were all pastors and bishops” (p. 211).  Bilson cited Jerome as referring to Acts 20:28 and then as noting: “Here mark diligently, how calling for the presbyters of Ephesus only, he afterward termed them bishops” (p. 269).  Bilson claimed:  “Bishops were always singular; that is, one in a city and no more, except another intruded, (which the church of Christ counted a schism, and would never communicate with any such;) or else an helper was given in respect of extreme and feeble age” (p. 319).  In a sermon, KJV translator Lancelot Andrewes cited Acts 20:28, noting that “He placed them Bishops” (Ninety-Six Sermons, III, p. 381).  What advantage or gain was provided to English readers by translating the Greek word as “overseers” only at Acts 20:28 besides the obvious gain to those who advocated Episcopal church government? 

    On the other hand, if “overseers” is a better or more accurate rendering than “bishops” at Acts 20:28, it would also be the same at 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1:7, Philippians 1:1, and 1 Peter 2:25.  In its marginal note for the word “bishops” at Philippians 1:1, the Geneva Bible explained:  “By bishops here he meaneth them that had charge of the word and governing; as pastors, doctors, elders.”  The 1657 English translation of the 1637 Dutch Bible has “overseers” or “overseer” at Acts 20:28, Philippians 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:1, 1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:7, and 1 Peter 2:25.  In his commentary on 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus, J. Vernon McGee observed:  “Those who practice the Episcopal form of church government put great emphasis upon this word [bishop] and its interpretation” (p. 51).  In his study on 1 Timothy 3:1-13 entitled Church Leadership, John MacArthur asserted:  “’Bishop’ is an unfortunate translation of episkopos because it carries modern ecclesiastical implications that are not consistent with its biblical meaning” (p. 20).  In his commentary on 1 Timothy, MacArthur wrote:  “In our day ‘bishop’ has been encumbered with much ecclesiastical trapping” (p. 98).  Alexander Strauch maintained that the rendering bishops “conveys concepts not present in Paul’s thought and creates misunderstanding for modern readers” (Biblical Eldership, p. 90). David Benedict (1779-1874) pointed out that “mankind in general have been so long accustomed to associate with the term bishop the idea of a superior order of the ministry” (Fifty Years Among the Baptists, p. 289).  Concerning 1 Timothy 3:1, James Lillie wrote:  “Dean Alford expressly declares that here the Anglican Version ‘sets a trap’ for the common reader; as the apostolic bishop had ‘nothing in common with our bishop’” (Bishops, p. 177).  Lillie contended that “Paul does not mean by bishop what the Church of England does” (p. 3).  Lillie maintained that “the fatal equivocation of confounding bishop (prelate) with the apostolic overseer” was “essential to the hierarchy” (p. 6).  Henry Dunn asserted:  “The word here [1 Tim. 3:2, Titus 1:7] translated ‘Bishop’ should have been rendered ‘Inspector’ or “Overseer;‘ since it has no special reference to what we understand by a Diocesan Prelate” (Study of the Bible, p. 186). James Woolsey maintained the word bishop is “put into our Bible, under the design of keeping up the illusive idea of a distinction among ministers in power of power of conferring ordination, etc.“ (Doctrine, pp. 94-95).  Woolsey added:  “No such grade of superior power lodged in some ministers to lord it over others, has any foundation in the original Scriptures” (Ibid.).  In his commentary on 1 & 2 Timothy, Tom Westwood wrote:  “The authorized version speaks in this first verse of the office of a bishop, but it is not such an office here contemplated as is found in some of our modern ecclesiastical systems” (p. 23).  In its etymology at its entry episcopacy, Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary listed the Greek word episkopos and defined it as “an overseer, watcher, from episkopein, to look upon, examine” (p. 614). 

    Also concerning Acts 20:28 in his commentary, J. A. Alexander asserted:  “Over the which is not a correct version, as it makes the overseers entirely distinct from and superior to the flock, whereas the original makes them a part of it, although superior in office” (p. 249).  Alexander indicated that it would better have been rendered “in which, in the midst and as a part of which” (Ibid.).  At this verse, Haak’s 1637 English translation of the Dutch Annotations affirmed that the Greek meant “in which.“  Concerning these same words in his notes on Acts, Melancthon Jacobus commented:  “literally, in which--wherein--as yourselves a part” (p. 329).  The KJV kept its rendering over the which from the Bishops’ Bible.  Is this rendering [“over the which”] in the Bishops’ Bible one of the examples of where it had more hierarchical language than the other pre-1611 Bibles?  Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, and Geneva Bibles have “whereof,” and Coverdale’s has “among the which.”  Wycliffe’s Bible has “in which.“  The Companion Bible maintained that “out of 2,622 occurrences of en, it is rendered ‘over’ only here” (p. 1635).  At the entry for over in his Lexicon, Bullinger defined the Greek word en at this verse as “in” (p. 565).  On the other hand, at this verse, the KJV did keep or follow the rendering “to feed” from Coverdale’s and Geneva Bibles instead of the rendering “to rule” in Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Great, and Bishops’.  The 1611 KJV’s keeping of “feed” from the Geneva Bible at this verse could be understood to indicate that the KJV translators intended “overseers” to be understood as “pastors” [“priests” as they were called in the Church of England] instead of as bishops who rule over a diocese.  The diocesan bishops of the Church of England of that day did not feed or preach every week to one congregation or flock as the overseers of Acts 20:28 were instructed to do.
 
James forced the translators to put what he needed to support his State-Church control model.

For example he told them to put Church instead of congregation as had been done in most English Bibles before the KJV. The Rheims had Church, I wonder why? There are many more that could be cited.

Bancroft also had a hand in changing words to match his State-Church bias, according to Miles Smith one of the final editors along with Bilson the writer of the fawning dedication.
 
logos1560 said:
On page 4 in another thread entitled "inspired translations", 
Mitex said:
You are on record stating that the words baptism, bishop, etc. are erroneous translations and diminish from the word of God thus condemning both ancient and modern translators alike.

Where is my own direct statement where I supposedly said that "bishop" is an "erroneous" rendering?

Are you perhaps improperly twisting, distorting, and misrepresenting what I have actually stated or wrote since you did not demonstrate that your accusation is correct?

Are you perhaps improperly twisting, distorting and misrepresenting what I have actually stated and wrote?
You believe that the lack of the word "bishop" in Acts 20:28 diminishes the word of God.
http://www.fundamentalforums.org/bible-versions/bishop-bishops-bishopric/msg72834/#msg72834

In spite of the fact, that the following translations translated the original language texts in the same way as the AV translators:

Bishops Act 20:28  Take heede therfore vnto your selues, and to all the flocke, ouer the which the holy ghost hath made you ouerseers, to rule the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his owne blood.

Geneva Acts 20:28  Take heede therefore vnto your selues, and to all the flocke, whereof the holy Ghost hath made you Ouerseers, to feede the Church of God, which hee hath purchased with that his owne blood.

AV Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Webster Acts 20:28  take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock over which the holy spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

ESV Acts 20:28  Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

NASV Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

NIV Acts 20:28  Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

NKJV Acts 20:28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

According to a consistent and just application of Rick's devious twisted thinking we are to believe that Dr. James Price & Dr. Arthur L. Farstad were inserting their subtle Baptist bias into the NKJV in order to hide the fact that local churches should have bishops (pl) instead of one pastor (sg). Obviously, according to Rick's duplicity, the good Doctors mentioned above hardly dealt fairly with the sacred text in rendering episcopous as overseers.

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's devilish thinking the Reader is to believe that the conservative Fundamentalist translators of the NASV deliberately inserted the word overseers into the sacred text in order to avoid the obvious inference that the same persons are here called "elders (v. 17) and "Bishops", this in spite of the fact that the ASV 1901 had "bishops".

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's devious innuendo we are to believe that the translators of the NIV fell under the spell of the long expired Bishops and were forced to insert "overseers" instead of "bishops' against their will. Or perhaps they could have been, maybe, intimidated by Peter Ruckman, Sam Gipp and Gail Ripplinger and inserted the word "overseers" to avoid the flack.

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's bewildered thinking the poor Anglican ministers on the ERV 1885 translation committee were hoisting themselves on their own petard when they translated the word as "Bishops".

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's library skills, poor Webster forgot to check his own dictionary definition and went with his first definition, overseer, instead of his 2nd Roman Catholic definition. Perhaps Webster was a closet Romanist and thanks to Rick's great librarian skills the cat is now out of the bag!

Again, a consistent and just application of Rick's pack of conspiracy theorists the AV translators must have fell under the pressure of backroom dealings with the Puritans and inserted the Geneva reading in order to hammer out an ecumenical compromise. But wait, hold the phone, maybe, perhaps, it might of been true, could it not have been that the Puritans in Geneva fell under the spell of the Bishops and were forced upon the threat of death to insert the Bishop's Bible reading into their text?

Why with all this conspiracy going on I'm being lead by the spirit of Rick to go watch the re-run of Conspiracy Theory.

Never hire a word thief to be your librarian!




 
Mitex said:
logos1560 said:
On page 4 in another thread entitled "inspired translations", 
Mitex said:
You are on record stating that the words baptism, bishop, etc. are erroneous translations and diminish from the word of God thus condemning both ancient and modern translators alike.

Where is my own direct statement where I supposedly said that "bishop" is an "erroneous" rendering?

Are you perhaps improperly twisting, distorting, and misrepresenting what I have actually stated or wrote since you did not demonstrate that your accusation is correct?

Are you perhaps improperly twisting, distorting and misrepresenting what I have actually stated and wrote?
 

I clearly did not misrepresent what you incorrectly claimed, but you have repeatedly twisted, distorted, and misrepresented what I have wrote. 

You clearly asserted that I claimed that "bishop" was an "erroneous translation," but your claim was false.

Mitex said:
Never hire a word thief to be your librarian!

Perhaps you merely describe yourself since you are the one who keeps using  twisted distortion and misrepresentation and smear tactics. 

Are you so desperate that personal smear tactics and twisted distortion is the best you have to offer?

You dodge and avoid the historical documented evidence and facts while trying to smear with your bogus innuendoes.
 
Mitex said:
Rick's devious twisted thinking

  Rick's duplicity

Rick's devilish thinking

Rick's devious innuendo

Rick's bewildered thinking

Rick's pack of conspiracy theorists

a word thief

By your use of fallacies, personal attacks, smear tactics, and bogus accusations,  do you seek to dodge and avoid dealing with the presented documented historical evidence and facts?

Instead of proving their assumptions and conclusions by logic and truth, do advocates of the non-scriptural claim of inspiration for translations often depend on the illogical tactics of ad hominem and poisoning the well?  That is, they seem to seek to discredit facts by name-calling, ascribing improper motives, and attacking the character of the person presenting the truth.  This fallacy implies that the person or some circumstance around the person determines the truth of their argument.

  Without disproving or really answering what the person says, this fallacy says:  "reject what he said because he is a bad person or he lives among bad people."  This fallacy was used against Christ.  Matthew 11:19 notes that some claimed:  "Behold, a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners."  The fact that Jesus associated with sinners in no way diminished the truth of what He said. 

Any argument by character assassination does not really answer the evidence being presented by the person being attacked.   Mere denunciation does not constitute an argument for any viewpoint.  In fact, this fallacy is used in order to dodge the facts by changing the subject.  Is the use of this fallacy and others by some throwing dust into the eyes of other believers and thus diverting their attention away from an objective examination of the evidence? 

KJV-only author Lloyd Streeter observed:  "We do not believe it is helpful for people on either side to call names, cast aspersions on others, or treat one another with contempt" (75 Problems, pp. 62-63).  Allen Johnson commented:  “It has been very disheartening to see people resort to name calling and attacking people rather than dealing with the issue” (Carter, Elephant, p. 113).  Charles Surrett wrote:  "Since there are many Fundamentalists who hold differing views while still maintaining a commitment to the inspiration and inerrancy of the Scriptures, Bible-believers  must  not  see  each other as enemies" (Which Greek Text, p. 117). 

Benjamin Kennicott asserted:  “Plenty of abuse is generally introduced, to help out a writer labouring under poverty of argument” (State, II, p. 12).   
 
Gustavus Paine maintained that Miles Smith, final editor of the KJV with Thomas Bilson, “protested that after Bilson and he had finished their editing, Bishop Bancroft made fourteen more changes.”  He gave as an example Bancroft's insistence on using "the glorious word bishopric even for Judas in Acts 1:20" (Men Behind the KJV, p. 128).  Paine added:  “The fact that Smith was the one to protest Bancroft’s amendments suggests that he stood against both Bilson and Bancroft in such matters as the importance of bishoprics” (Ibid.). 

Concerning the fourteen changes, Benson Bobrick asserted:  “One of them was to insist on that ‘glorious word Bishopric’ for the titular authority of Judas in Acts 1:20” (Wide as the Waters, p. 248).  David Teems wrote:  “Because an argument followed between Smith and Bancroft, the Translators’ draft obviously read ‘And his charge’ (Geneva Bible) and not bishopricke” (Majestie, p. 232).  Edward Whiston asserted that “many of those in King James’ time (had they been as well conscientious in point of fidelity and godliness, as they were furnished with abilities, they) would not have moulded it to their own Episcopal notion rendering episkope, (the office of oversight) by the term Bishoprick Acts 1:20 as they do in 14 places more” (Life, p. 44).   

    Acts 1:20 quotes Psalm 109:8:  "let another take his office" which was translated in the Geneva Bible in Acts 1:20 as "let another take his charge."  Although it is not in many current KJV's, the 1611 KJV did have the following note in the margin indicating other acceptable words:  "Or, office: or charge."  Thomas Hill suggested that this change was made “that you may believe that the Bishops are the Apostles successors” (Six Sermons, p. 24).

In 1593, Bishop Thomas Bilson, who would be co-editor of the 1611, had quoted Acts 1:20 as “his bishopric let another take” and had used this verse as his basis for his question “will you grant, that an apostle doth not differ from a bishop” (Perpetual Government, p. 291).  Bilson contended that “Peter himself calleth the apostleship ‘a bishopship’” with the reference Acts 1:20 (p. 296).  Thus, Bilson used the rendering “bishopric” at Acts 1:20 as part of his arguments for the divine origin of episcopacy and for apostolic succession.  Bilson also claimed that “I am sure all the fathers with one mouth affirm the apostles both might be and were bishops” (p. 295).  Bilson asserted that “whatsoever becometh of the names, it cannot be denied but the apostles had that power of imposing hands, and delivering unto Satan, which they after imparted unto bishops” (p. 296).  Bilson claimed:  “as by imposing of hands, so by succeeding in the chair, have bishops ever since the apostles’ times been severed from presbyters in the church of Christ:  which to all that do not eagerly seek to captivate the truth to their own desires, is an argument unrefellable, that the first placing of bishops above presbyters was apostolic” (p. 332).  Henry Dexter asserted:  “If Judas had had a bishopric, he must have been a bishop; and if Judas had been a bishop, then the man who was to take the vacant place would be a bishop; and the twelve were all bishops” (Hand-Book of Congregationalism, p. 25).  Abel Stevens asserted that this doctrine of apostolic succession “is the basis of the arrogance and pretension of the prelatical system” (Essay on Church Polity, p. 62). 

The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology noted that bishopric is a compound of two words:  bishop [overseer] and rice or ric [realm, province, dominion, power] (p. 95).  White’s Dictionary of the King James Language noted that “a bishoprick is ‘the realm or province over which a bishop has control” (p. 168).  Does White’s definition of this English word match the meaning of the Greek word?  Ross Purdy contended that “what bishopric meant to the English mind was that it was the diocese of a ruling bishop” (I Will Have, p. 58).  In his comments about this verse in his commentary, Adam Clarke asserted that “surely the office or charge of Judas was widely different what we call bishopric, the diocese, estate, and emoluments of a bishop” (p. 687).  In his commentary on Acts, J. A. Alexander observed that the rendering bishopric “suggests foreign ideas by its modern usage and associations” (p. 30).  Did a diocesan bishop want to use a rendering that could convey a hierarchal sense that a bishop has a bishopric, diocese, or realm?  Is the rendering “bishopric” more favorable to Episcopal or prelatic views and to Bancroft’s and Bilson’s claim that bishops were of divine origin than the rendering “charge“ or “office?”  In his 1853 commentary on Acts, Abiel Abbot Livermore claimed that “this rendering [bishopric] betrays its Episcopalian origin” (p. 22).  Andrew Edgar asserted that “the prelatic word ’bishopric’ appears in Acts 1:20” (Bibles of England, p. 295).  The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia noted that the Revised Version “corrects the rendering ’bishopric’ to ’office,’ thus relieving the verse of possible ecclesiastical pretensions” (I, p. 482).  In his comments on Acts 1:20 in his Bible commentary, Adam Clarke asserted:  “Surely the office or charge of Judas was widely different from what we call bishopric, the diocese, estate, and emoluments of a bishop” (p. 687).     

    Some may attempt to excuse or justify the KJV’s rendering “bishoprick” because this same rendering had also been used in several earlier English Bibles.  John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, and Miles Coverdale seem to have used this rendering in a general sense with the meaning “office” or “overseership.”  The Oxford English Dictionary gave this as an “obsolete” meaning of the word and cited Acts 1:20 in Wycliffe’s Bible and the 1535 Coverdale’s as examples of this use (II, p. 224).  After Bancroft and Bilson advocated their new theory of the divine origin of episcopacy and apostolic succession, the word bishoprick became more associated with a specific hierarchical sense or meaning as this rendering was used to argue for apostolic succession in a book written by Bilson in 1593.  Based on the clear, first-hand evidence in Bilson’s book, it was and is valid for believers to think that the rendering bishoprick was intended by them to be understood with a different meaning from that intended by Wycliffe, Tyndale, or Coverdale.  If this different sense or meaning was not intended, Bilson could not have linked his apostolic succession argument to this rendering at Acts 1:20.  The meaning affixed to bishoprick by Bilson and Bancroft for readers who were members of the Church of England should not be explained in a manner inconsistent or even contradictory to their known sentiments and the meaning that they intended for it.  If “bishopric” was possibly considered one of the ecclesiastical words, it would be additional compelling evidence that indicates that it was used in a specific hierarchical sense to advocate apostolic succession and not in the general sense.  In the 1610-1611 edition of his book first printed in 1590, KJV translator Hadrian Saravia asserted:  “St. Peter, himself an Apostle, calls the Apostleship of Judas his Bishopric” (Treatise, p. 192).  In a book printed after 1611, KJV translator Lancelot Andrewes also cited Acts 1:20 for his assertion that “the apostles were called” “bishops or overseers” (Pattern, p. 359).  Andrewes maintained that “upon these [bishops] was transferred the chief part of the apostolic function” (Ibid., p. 355).  Purdy contended:  “They made a conscious choice to retain the language here that glorified and seemingly sanctioned their church organization; one run by the ordained bishops.  This gives those who are ordained the appearance of a connection with the apostles and supports the Roman Catholic doctrine of apostolic succession adopted by the Anglo-Catholic Church.  The king and his bishops used the new Bible as a tool to promote their agenda of absolute monarchy and episcopacy” (I Will Have, p. 58).  Was the rendering “bishopric” used in the 1611 KJV in order to uphold the error of the doctrine of apostolic succession?  Hierarchical church government views are often connected to an claim of apostolic succession.  Firsthand evidence from the writings of Bishop Bilson demonstrated that the KJV’s rendering “bishopric” was linked to the Church of England’s claim of apostolic succession.     
 
logos1560 said:
...blah, blah, blah and more blah, blah...
Rick, when the wind blows, does it change your mind? Just wondering.

Here you go, I'll let you try again. I took all the words out that threw you for a curve. With all the bones out you should now be able to chew your meat without choking. So, please try again:

You believe that the lack of the word "bishop" in Acts 20:28 diminishes the word of God. In spite of the fact that the following translations translated the original language texts in the same way as the AV translators:

Bishops Act 20:28 Take heede therfore vnto your selues, and to all the flocke, ouer the which the holy ghost hath made you ouerseers, to rule the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his owne blood.

Geneva Acts 20:28  Take heede therefore vnto your selues, and to all the flocke, whereof the holy Ghost hath made you Ouerseers, to feede the Church of God, which hee hath purchased with that his owne blood.

AV Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Webster Acts 20:28 take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock over which the holy spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

ESV Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

NASV Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

NIV Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

NKJV Acts 20:28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

According to a consistent and just application of your astute thinking we are to believe that Dr. James Price & Dr. Arthur L. Farstad were inserting their subtle Baptist bias into the NKJV in order to hide the fact that local churches should have bishops (pl) instead of one pastor (sg). Obviously, according to Rick's sincerity, the good Doctors mentioned above hardly dealt fairly with the sacred text in rendering episcopous as overseers.

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's angelic thinking the Reader is to believe that the conservative Fundamentalist translators of the NASV deliberately inserted the word overseers into the sacred text in order to avoid the obvious inference that the same persons are here called "elders (v. 17) and "bishops", this in spite of the fact that the ASV 1901 had "bishops".

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's straightforward thinking we are to believe that the translators of the NIV fell under the spell of the long expired Bishops of England and were forced to insert "overseers" instead of "bishops' against their will. Or perhaps they could have been, maybe, intimidated by Peter Ruckman, Sam Gipp and Gail Ripplinger and inserted the word "overseers" to avoid the flack.

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's clear understanding the poor Anglican ministers on the ERV 1885 translation committee were hoisting themselves on their own petard when they translated the word as "bishops".

Again, according to a consistent and just application of Rick's library skills, poor Webster forgot to check his own dictionary definition and went with his first definition, overseer, instead of his 2nd Roman Catholic definition. Perhaps Webster was a closet Romanist and thanks to Rick's fantastic librarian skills the cat is now out of the bag!

Again, a consistent and just application of Rick's brotherhood of conspiracy theorists the AV translators must have fallen under the pressure of backroom dealings with the Puritans and inserted the Geneva reading in order to hammer out an ecumenical compromise. But wait, hold the phone, maybe, perhaps, it might of been true, could it not have been that the Puritans in Geneva fell under the spell of the Bishops and were forced upon the threat of death to insert the Bishop's Bible reading into their text?

Why with all this conspiracy going on I'm being lead by the spirit of Rick to go watch the re-run of Conspiracy Theory.

Never hire a word thief to be your librarian! <--- I left this one cause it's just good advise! So, please don't choke on it.

Now, deal with the issue and quit swatting at the gnats.

 
Mitex said:
I took all the words out that threw you for a curve. 

I presented accurate, documented information, and you responded with improper, deceitful smear tactics and bogus innuendoes. 


Mitex said:
You believe that the lack of the word "bishop" in Acts 20:28 diminishes the word of God.

That is not what I stated. 

You missed the points and dodged dealing with the documented evidence that was presented as you try to misrepresent and distort them. 
 
Hi,

logos1560 said:
I presented accurate, documented information, and you responded with improper, deceitful smear tactics and bogus innuendoes. 

Actually, Mitex used your own tactics, in a type of humorous turnabout. 

Although he did not use your trick of so question upon questions, for loading the questions and to maintain the flim-flam of plausible deniability. 

Yours in Jesus,
Steven Avery
 
The AV doesn't promote the Nicolaitan single "pastor" anyway.

Phi 1:1
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

There isn't a single reference to a single leader.
There isn't one shred of admonishment to appoint one man over the rest. In fact, Timothy was commanded to not do so, quite firmly:

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Every mention of church leadership is in the plural form in the AV.

Act 20:17
17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

One can hardly properly charge the AV with single-pastor bias, it doesn't exist.

Here is Ephesus, at the end, getting the "attaboy"  from God for it's leadership (presbytery):

Rev 2:6
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

The evidence against any "Baptist bias"concerning church leadership, in the AV, is overwhelming.


 
prophet said:
There isn't a single reference to a single leader.

Every mention of church leadership is in the plural form in the AV.

Perhaps the Church of England makers of the KJV could find support for their Episcopal church government views in the KJV regardless of whether you see it or not.

Tied in to the Church of England's claims of apostolic succession and of divine right for the Episcopal view of church government is their interpretation of Revelation chapters two and three.  In 1593, Thomas Bilson maintained that St. John wrote “to the seven pastors and bishops of those seven places” (Perpetual Government, p. 305).  Bilson contended that “The Lord himself in the Revelation, speaking of the bishops of the seven churches in Asia, calleth them ‘the stars and angels’ of the seven churches” (p. 101).  Bilson asserted that “St. John the evangelist wrote to the pastors of the seven churches in Asia” and that “their successors sat in the council of Nice, retaining the same place and office of bishops which their predecessors had in the apostles’ time” (p. 347).  Against the Presbyterian view, Bilson contended:  “If John in his time saw those seven churches governed by seven pastors or bishops, then was the common and equal government of presbyters before that time changed.  If Christ called them stars and angels of the churches, they were no human invention after the apostles were dead and buried” (p. 306).  Bilson wrote that “the Son of God willed St. John the apostle in his Revelation to write to the seven chief pastors of the seven churches of Asia” (p. 373).  Bilson wrote:  “By Christ’s own mouth the overseer of the church is praised under the name of an angel” (p. 178).  KJV translator Lancelot Andrewes claimed that bishops are called “by St. John (Rev. 1:20) the ’angels of the churches’” (Pattern, p. 355).  KJV translator Hadrian Saravia contended:  “For thus much is clear from the word of God; viz. that, in the time of John the Apostle, to seven Churches of Asia, had seven Bishops, set over them by Divine, not by human, appointment” (Treatise, p. 223).  Bilson asserted:  “The bishop must be pastor alone; for he is the angel of God’s church.  If the pastoral charge may be common to many, then must he have it chiefly and above all, because he is God’s angel, and superior to all” (Perpetual Government, p. 379).  Perhaps this Episcopal interpretation and claim that there was only one bishop [angel] at Ephesus could be linked to Acts 20:28 where the KJV seemed to avoid showing English readers that there were “bishops” [plural] at Ephesus. 

Ross Purdy suggested that two other “examples of the [KJV] translators’ bias will be seen in the postscripts to two of Paul’s epistles” (I Will Have, p. 63).

At the end of 2 Timothy in the 1611 edition of the KJV, the postscript referred to Timothy as “ordained the first Bishop of the Church of the Ephesians.” 

At the end of Titus in the 1611 KJV, the postscript referred to Titus as “ordained the first Bishop of the Church of the Cretians.” 

Bishop Thomas Bilson [who was co-editor of the 1611 edition of the KJV] in his book defending Episcopal church government and apostolic succession maintained that Timothy and Titus were bishops (Perpetual Government, pp. 302-303, 341, 388).  Bilson wrote:  “If succession of Episcopal power came from the apostles to them [Timothy and Titus], and so to their successors, we shall soon conclude that bishops came from the apostles” (p. 302).  Bilson asserted:  “We infer this power must be perpetual in bishops, for they succeed Timothy in the church” (p. 391).  Bilson contended:  “St. Paul committed that power and care to Timothy and his successors” (p. 406).  Bishop Overall’s Convocation Book claimed that “it is very apparent and cannot be denied, that in many Greek copies of the New Testament, Timothy and Titus are termed bishops in the directions or subscriptions of two epistles which St. Paul did write unto them (pp. 145-146).  In this same book, KJV translator John Overall referred to Timothy and Titus as “two apostolical bishops newly designed unto their Episcopal functions” (p. 140).  James Lillie maintained that the Church of England uses these postscripts “to prove her order of bishops” (Bishops, p. 3).  Stephen Marshall, Edmund Calamy, Thomas Young, Matthew Newcomen, and William Spurstowe maintained that “our Episcopal men of late in newer impressions enlarged their phylacteries, in putting those postscripts in the same full character with that of the text, that the simple might believe they are canonical Scripture” (Smectymnuus, p. 45).  Concerning these postscripts, Ross Purdy asserted:  “The bias of the King James Version ’translators’ towards prelates (i.e., a hierarchy of ruling prelates/bishops is quite obvious” (I Will Have, p. 64).  John Davenport asserted that the postscript to 2 Timothy and to Titus “are apocryphal” (Power, p. 80).  John Brown maintained:  “These postscripts are of no weight; are of no divine authority; but were added, at least in their present form, ages after their [referring to Timothy and Titus] death, by some imposter” (Letters, p. 42).  While the 1560 Geneva Bible also included a postscript to 2 Timothy, its rendering does not indicate as much Episcopal bias.  The Geneva Bible postscript referred to “Timotheus the first bishop elected, of the Church of Ephesus.”  Haak’s 1657 English translation of the 1637 Dutch Annotations had this note after the postscript at the end of 2 Timothy:  “These subscriptions even as it is uncertain who set them down, so their truth is also uncertain.”  At the end of 2 Timothy, Theodore Haak noted or translated: “(The Epistle) to Titus, the first elected overseer [Gr. EPISCOPON; that Titus was an evangelist, sent to and fro by the apostles to spread abroad the gospel, is indeed collected out of the Scriptures; but not that he was anywhere a Bishop, as they are at this day called amongst the Papists].”  These misleading postscripts used to advocate Episcopal church government remain in some [perhaps all] KJV editions printed at Cambridge and Oxford in Great Britain, but they are not found in a number of KJV editions printed in America.  Do KJV-only advocates believe those words of the postscripts as the KJV translators did and do they assert that these postscripts should be printed in the KJV editions that they recommend?  Some KJV-only advocates recommend as the perfect standard Cambridge KJV editions that include these Episcopal postscripts.   
 
Yup, I read all of those,  and noticed their bias.
Good thing the text doesn't support it.

Those translators weren't in charge of preservation, God is.

Just like all the IFB perverts that beat people over the head with their KJV now, don't have the job of preservation in this generation.
Good thing, too , cuz they'd be turning a lot of people away from the Word of God.
 
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