Calvin vs Arminius

JimKnox

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Both fellers saw truths in Scripture but misapplied them.
Salvation in Scripture does not always mean "going to heaven".
JSYK
Scriptures in this debate, that apparently conflict, can be reconciled IF the reader believes that God does not contradict Himself.
 
To which apparent contradictions are you referring?
All of them?
For example:
In one case Scripture says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" ; while another says "he that endureth unto the end shall be saved".
One camp says grace only while the other says one must work to stay saved.
M.E. says these are both true but the end state of each are not the same.
And that is the entire debate in a nutshell.
In one case it is talking about our eternal state while the other is speaking about our entrance into the Millenial Kingdom. One is based on our works AFTER salvation and the other is based on the work of Christ on our behalf.
The C vs A debate is like two guys looking at the sky on a spring day with wispy cloud floating by. One says the sky is blue and the other says it is white. A third comes along and says it is both because blue is it's eternal state while white is it's temporary state.
Misapplication of Scripture is the essence of the debate by BOTH sides.
 
For example:
In one case Scripture says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" ; while another says "he that endureth unto the end shall be saved".

An apparent contradiction, perhaps, but only by ignoring the monergistic work of God in bringing about a person's salvation.

Salvation begins with belief in Jesus, and this is exclusively God's work:


No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44)

And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48; note, not "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life," as some like to distort it.)

One who heard us was a woman named Lydia.... The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14)

For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake. (Phil. 1:29)

So justification is God's work, and so is the sanctification that comes after:

those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified. (Rom. 8:29-30).​

It is God's work to sanctify those whom he calls to himself: to make them to be like Christ. For this purpose he gives them the Holy Spirit: " God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess. 2:13). The Holy Spirit is also a down payment, the token of a promise of our future inheritance, the Kingdom: "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1:13-14). The word translated "guarantee" is a term of commerce, what we today would call a down payment or deposit. It's a promise--in fact, a legally binding contract--to pay the amount in full later.

If God were to justify someone and give him the Holy Spirit to transform him into Christ-likeness, but that person by his own free will could reject God's work in him and return to his lost state, then God is fallible and liable to failure. If God worked justification and sanctification in him, but then denied him his promised inheritance in the Kingdom at the last, he is arbitrary and untrustworthy. Arminians and semi-Pelagians, as well as millennial exclusionists, err.

No, the work of God begins with justification, continues with sanctification, and concludes with glorification: " those whom he justified he also glorified" (Rom. 8:30). What God starts, he finishes, guaranteed.
 
An apparent contradiction, perhaps, but only by ignoring the monergistic work of God in bringing about a person's salvation.

Salvation begins with belief in Jesus, and this is exclusively God's work:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44)​
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48; note, not "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life," as some like to distort it.)​
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia.... The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14)​
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake. (Phil. 1:29)​

So justification is God's work, and so is the sanctification that comes after:

those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified. (Rom. 8:29-30).​

It is God's work to sanctify those whom he calls to himself: to make them to be like Christ. For this purpose he gives them the Holy Spirit: " God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess. 2:13). The Holy Spirit is also a down payment, the token of a promise of our future inheritance, the Kingdom: "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1:13-14). The word translated "guarantee" is a term of commerce, what we today would call a down payment or deposit. It's a promise--in fact, a legally binding contract--to pay the amount in full later.

If God were to justify someone and give him the Holy Spirit to transform him into Christ-likeness, but that person by his own free will could reject God's work in him and return to his lost state, then God is fallible and liable to failure. If God worked justification and sanctification in him, but then denied him his promised inheritance in the Kingdom at the last, he is arbitrary and untrustworthy. Arminians and semi-Pelagians, as well as millennial exclusionists, err.

No, the work of God begins with justification, continues with sanctification, and concludes with glorification: " those whom he justified he also glorified" (Rom. 8:30). What God starts, he finishes, guaranteed.
Preach!!!
 
An apparent contradiction, perhaps, but only by ignoring the monergistic work of God in bringing about a person's salvation.

Salvation begins with belief in Jesus, and this is exclusively God's work:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44)​
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48; note, not "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life," as some like to distort it.)​
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia.... The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14)​
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake. (Phil. 1:29)​

So justification is God's work, and so is the sanctification that comes after:

those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified. (Rom. 8:29-30).​

It is God's work to sanctify those whom he calls to himself: to make them to be like Christ. For this purpose he gives them the Holy Spirit: " God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess. 2:13). The Holy Spirit is also a down payment, the token of a promise of our future inheritance, the Kingdom: "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1:13-14). The word translated "guarantee" is a term of commerce, what we today would call a down payment or deposit. It's a promise--in fact, a legally binding contract--to pay the amount in full later.

If God were to justify someone and give him the Holy Spirit to transform him into Christ-likeness, but that person by his own free will could reject God's work in him and return to his lost state, then God is fallible and liable to failure. If God worked justification and sanctification in him, but then denied him his promised inheritance in the Kingdom at the last, he is arbitrary and untrustworthy. Arminians and semi-Pelagians, as well as millennial exclusionists, err.

No, the work of God begins with justification, continues with sanctification, and concludes with glorification: " those whom he justified he also glorified" (Rom. 8:30). What God starts, he finishes, guaranteed.
That's the fallacy of Calvinism.
You all ignore " without faith it is impossible to please God" and " obedience is better than sacrifice" and " :But I keep under my body, and bring it unto subjection: lest by any means, when I have preached to others, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY".

As I said, You are looking at the wrong part of the sky. I said NOTHING about losing salvation, did I?
Jesus Himself said the Kingdom inheritance is conditional. So did Paul. "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain".
1 Cor 9:24 - 10:12 Paul makes it abundantly clear that the Inheritance is conditional. Paul is NOT writing to the lost nor to Israel; he is addressing this passage to Saved Gentile Church members.
 
That's the fallacy of Calvinism.
You all ignore " without faith it is impossible to please God"

Incorrect. Faith itself comes from God: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).

and " obedience is better than sacrifice"

Incorrect. God himself works obedience in us: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12-13).

And, "Now may the God of peace ... equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever" (Heb. 13:20-21).

and " :But I keep under my body, and bring it unto subjection: lest by any means, when I have preached to others, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY".

Incorrect. In the previous verse he says, specifically, he is not doing that. You can't conclude a positive from a negative.

As I said, You are looking at the wrong part of the sky. I said NOTHING about losing salvation, did I?

Nope, just the inheritance we were promised. At least you're admitting you believe God's promises are in bad faith.
 
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Incorrect. Faith itself comes from God: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).



Incorrect. God himself works obedience in us: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12-13).

And, "Now may the God of peace ... equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever" (Heb. 13:20-21).



Incorrect. In the previous verse he says, specifically, he is not doing that. You can't conclude a positive from a negative.



Nope, just the inheritance we were promised. At least you're admitting you believe God's promises are in bad faith.
[/QUOTE]

That's another thing you Calvies do.
You lie about people when they disagree with you.
And you ignore Scripture supplied that pops your over inflated ego.
 
Finding the grapes a bit sour, Jim?
Nope.
I just resent you making untrue statements about what I believe about God's promises.
That move is more appropriate coming from lying and looney leftist than a professing Christian man.
 
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