Calvin vs Arminius

There is no such thing as "passive decree".
It is a modern philosophical invention that Calvinists attempt to avoid the direct statement of Calvin himself, to wit:
..." God ...determined whom he would admit to salvation, and whom he would condemn to destruction".

The Westminster Confession says God "freely and unchangeable ORDAINED whatsoever comes to pass". By definition and logically that would include sin, unbelief and damnation.

"Passive decree" contradicts Theological Determinism which Calvinists themselves affirm. If every event is predetermined then the damnation of the reprobate is not 'passively allowed' it is actively determined.

Calvinism says the reprobate CANNOT believe unless God gives irresistible grace. Withholding that grace is therefore an ACTIVE determination of their damnation.

😪😪
(Claiming God decreed for Adam to sin is identical to Mormon doctrine that the Fall MUST happen so that redemption may come)
OK, why did God allow Adam to partake of the tree of knowledge? Could he have prevented it? If so, why didn't he?

And Why did God place that tree in the garden to begin with?

Does God ordain all things that come to pass or was God "taken by surprise" when Adam disobeyed him?
 
OK, why did God allow Adam to partake of the tree of knowledge? Could he have prevented it? If so, why didn't he?

And Why did God place that tree in the garden to begin with?

Does God ordain all things that come to pass or was God "taken by surprise" when Adam disobeyed him?
Rhetoric.

Why did God take Enoch before his sins were paid for by Christ?
What about Elijah?
Why was Lazarus resurrected before Calvary or the 'Rapture' ?

Does God have favorites?

Theological Determinism and/or Christian Fatalism. Same net effect as Calvinism.
 
And Why did God place that tree in the garden to begin with?
I've always appreciated Greg Koukl's perspective on many issues. I think he definitely makes some valid points in this podcast. Listen from the 3-12 minute mark.

 
OK, why did God allow Adam to partake of the tree of knowledge? Could he have prevented it? If so, why didn't he?

And Why did God place that tree in the garden to begin with?

Does God ordain all things that come to pass or was God "taken by surprise" when Adam disobeyed him?
And why did He let the Devil in?
 
Rhetoric.

Why did God take Enoch before his sins were paid for by Christ?
What about Elijah?
Why was Lazarus resurrected before Calvary or the 'Rapture' ?

Does God have favorites?

Theological Determinism and/or Christian Fatalism. Same net effect as Calvinism.
This is inane nonsense sir! None of his has anything to do with the topic at hand.

Now answer my question.

You said you wanted to have an intelligent, bananced discussion and I am trying to give you that opportunity.
 
This is inane nonsense sir! None of his has anything to do with the topic at hand.

Now answer my question.

You said you wanted to have an intelligent, bananced discussion and I am trying to give you that opportunity.
You listed SIX questions in that post.
Which one do you want answered.


"Intelligent, balanced..."? ???o


None of you guys on the Calvin cheer squad have even bothered to address any of my posts refuting Calvin and his Theological Determinism. Many atheist philosophers hold the SAME philosophy. Everything is already determined, therefore it doesn't matter what you do in this life because you were ORDAINED to do it.
 
You listed SIX questions in that post.
Which one do you want answered.


"Intelligent, balanced..."? ???o


None of you guys on the Calvin cheer squad have even bothered to address any of my posts refuting Calvin and his Theological Determinism. Many atheist philosophers hold the SAME philosophy. Everything is already determined, therefore it doesn't matter what you do in this life because you were ORDAINED to do it.
One question: Does God decree all things that come to pass? Yes or no?

Everything else are follow-up questions to whatever your response is to this first question.
 
One question: Does God decree all things that come to pass? Yes or no?

Everything else are follow-up questions to whatever your response is to this first question.
According to Calvin/Augustine/Theological Fatalism/Determinism/Neoplatonism.
1. God predestined the majority of mankind to eternal torment.
2. God could save them but chooses not to.
3. God decreed their damnation for his 'glory'.
4. God withholds the grace necessary for them to believe.
5. God punishes them for unbelief He Himself decreed.

There is no escape. Calvinism collapses under its own weight.
 
An apparent contradiction, perhaps, but only by ignoring the monergistic work of God in bringing about a person's salvation.

Salvation begins with belief in Jesus, and this is exclusively God's work:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44)​
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48; note, not "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life," as some like to distort it.)​
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia.... The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14)​
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake. (Phil. 1:29)​

So justification is God's work, and so is the sanctification that comes after:

those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified. (Rom. 8:29-30).​

It is God's work to sanctify those whom he calls to himself: to make them to be like Christ. For this purpose he gives them the Holy Spirit: " God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess. 2:13). The Holy Spirit is also a down payment, the token of a promise of our future inheritance, the Kingdom: "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1:13-14). The word translated "guarantee" is a term of commerce, what we today would call a down payment or deposit. It's a promise--in fact, a legally binding contract--to pay the amount in full later.

If God were to justify someone and give him the Holy Spirit to transform him into Christ-likeness, but that person by his own free will could reject God's work in him and return to his lost state, then God is fallible and liable to failure. If God worked justification and sanctification in him, but then denied him his promised inheritance in the Kingdom at the last, he is arbitrary and untrustworthy. Arminians and semi-Pelagians, as well as millennial exclusionists, err.

No, the work of God begins with justification, continues with sanctification, and concludes with glorification: " those whom he justified he also glorified" (Rom. 8:30). What God starts, he finishes, guaranteed.
This ENTIRE post ignored the whole point of the OP.
And I think you are aware but you are so arrogant that you think you are the FFF pope and official spokesman for Calvin.

You are stuck on Augustinianism.
It was he who introduced:
1. Meticulous divine Determinism
2. Unconditional election
3. Irresistible grace
4. Perseverance as proof of election (works salvation)
5. Total inability
6. Predestination to damnation
7. Baptismal regeneration
8. The Church as arbiter of salvation
9. Infant damnation
10. Coercion of heretics

And you STILL have not addressed 1 Cor 9:24 - 10:12.
1 Cor 9:24 destroys Calvin all by itself. It is completely illogical for Paul to have made this statement if Augustine and Calvin (and you by association) were right.
 
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