Cat Poop Sermon Illustration

[Tim]

So. Sunday our assistant pastor performed a little sermon illustration. It left a few shocked, while most LOLed.

He had two children come up, put on aprons, and mix up a batter of brownies. He had them taste the batter, and asked a few children in the congregation to come forward and taste and smell the yummy batter.

Then. He presented what he called the "secret ingredient" to make it taste even better. He showed it to the one boy helping mix the batter and immediately he made a disgusted face. It was cat poop!

The cat poop was added to the brownie mix, mixed in, and then the preacher asked if anyone wanted to taste it now .... nobody touched it.

The point. A little sin ruined everything.

Now. Before we get into how well (or not) this really illustrated sin in the life of a believer ....

One elderly lady left Church in the middle of the illustration upset. Some sat stoned faced. And my wife didn't appreciate the children tasting "raw egg" ....

So. How well (or not) is this illustration of sin in our life. Sin we willfully leave.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

This is one of the reasons I don't like pastor-centered Sunday sermon assemblies.

 

[praise_yeshua]

How about bread and little leaven.....

You can't beat the Scriptures.

 

[HeDied4U]

While I agree with the point your pastor was trying to make, I do think there could have been better ways to illustrate his point. I think praise_yeshua had it spot-on.

 

[ALAYMAN]

While I agree with the point your pastor was trying to make, I do think there could have been better ways to illustrate his point. I think praise_yeshua had it spot-on.

And I echo his sentiments as well.  The Scriptures are more than apt at interpreting and expounding themselves systematically.  And if I might be a tad bit critical of the methodology, the sort of "shock jock" theatrics and coarseness that some pulpiteers and street preachers display really speaks (IMNSHO) of the lack of reliance on the truth that the Scriptures are sufficient and the power of God unto salvation.  For a parallel within those contemporary seeker type (think Perry Noble) churches, it is the equivalent of the church music group playing "Highway to Hell" as an intro to the Easter service, all with the intent to portray the bankrupt message of the worldview inherent to the message of folk like AC/DC.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What breed of cat was the poop from?  Us aliens are particular.

Is it an Asian Palm Civet?  Not technically a cat, but people call them cats.  And the coffee beans in their poop supposedly makes the best coffee. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

My dog (RIP) ate cat poop out of the litter box.  I had to set up a gate to prevent her from getting to the litter box. 

That's why I crack up at commercials about things like "Beggin' Strips -- Dogs Don't Know it's Not Bacon!" 

As if dogs really care.  I could create a new snack called "Pooperoni! -- Dogs Don't Know it's Not Cat Poop!"

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Could you explain more the aspect of "abuse" and the illustration?

I was viewing it more as bad taste (no pun intended), or that it took the focus off Christ too much ... but when you say "abuse" are you speaking of his allowing Children to be near raw egg and cat poop? Offing it as okay to taste?

it;s not so much that the thing itself was abusive.... though it was as i will explain later....... but that in doing it, and setting it up the way he did, he showed in himself the potential for being an abuser...... .... that is where the real and bigger danger is here...... what he did put those children at risk.. there is no doubt about that.... .... and at the very least every parent of every child involved in any part of that should have been informed of what their kids were going to do and asked if it was ok with them first....... but he didn;t do that.... he moved forward and took liberty with a childs welfare without having the parents permission and without the parents being fully informed ...... that is the very definition of a potential child abuser...... propriety doesn;t occur to them.... they exceed the limits of their rights with regards to others welfare without a second thought....... and do nothing but make excuses later......

but furthermore ....he didn;t even inform the children of what what he was going to do before hand..... or ask their permission to do it.... .. he just sprung it on them in front of the whole church and left it up to them to decide whether they wanted to taste it or not........... and in at least one case... one child..... your son..... did exactly that.......... that shows where the potential risk went from risk to reality and caused potential harm ..... ... if your son had become sick from that then the potential for harm would have become real harm... in the form of diseases caused by ingestion of cat feces.....

but wait .....  ..in the spirit of tv infomercials.... which your pastor seems well suited for.... .... there is more.......

by setting this whole thing up the way he did the pastor took advantage of a childs trusting and obedient nature, and..... even worse.... took advantage of their tendency to obey without question a person in authority.... especially the authority of a pastor........ and in the process he made them an embarrassing object of a silly and frivolous illustration played out in front of the whole church......... at worst a child put through that will walk away feeling as if they were ill used and unfairly taken un-advantage of by an adult in authority........ and that ... though it may not go to the insidious ends of much more damaging and prolonged abuse ....is no less still in the same vein as those that do go to those ends.... ..... the feelings of distrust and shame left with the child is the same.......

and at the very least...if that scenario doesn;t manifest itself,  then other children... especially those watching... will walk away believing such frivolous off color games and risky illustrations are what church is all about..... and hence... what life is all about.......  ..... ... don;t be surprised if one of the children who witnessed that demonstration goes home and tries to set up their own little taste test experiment with other friends, later on .... trying to copy what the preacher did........ can you imagine what kind of headaches the parents of those children are  going to have trying to explain why ..even though the preacher did it... it;s still wrong?......

on sunday the mess might have been in a bowl of brownie batter......... but if thats the biggest mess the preacher thinks he made by doing what he did... then he is wrong....... ..... and while his staff conned other children to clean up the mess at church it won;t be that easy to clean up the rest of it...... sadly.... he probably won;t offer much help in trying to clean up that mess either......... the ones who perpetrate these kinds of things never do......  but smart people would never trust them to anyway........ it;s better to just get away from them... and stay away..........

Wow, he "put the children at risk"? Now that's ridiculous, I am a farm kid, grew up around a lot of poop, stepped in it, sat in it, had it on my hands, on my face, in my mouth. Helped a cow give birth and had it shot up the side of my neck and into my mouth. No one ever said my dad was "putting me at risk". What a 21st century, grew up in the city, crazy idea.

Feelings of being unfairly taken advantage of? Or, memories of a silly, funny time? Yeah, some psychologist would love to tell you that your problems are because someone made you look silly, but his business is predicated on the fact that he needs a repeat customer, so curing you is not in his best interest, inventing maladies so you keep coming back is.

In regards to taking advantage of a childs trusting nature, don't we all do that when we simply preach the gospel to them? Now, I don't mean in the sense of an empty confession, but they trust what you say to be true, especially if they cannot read and understand enough to challenge you? Should we then stop preaching the gospel to trusting children?

Staff conned children to clean up? One of the goals of discipling and growing Christians is to teach them how to serve in a local church. Serve. Not a position, but serve. The best qualified SS teacher, music leader etc is the one that has a heart willing to serve. They are spiritually qualified, they have "decreased", it is life long, it is basic, and teaching that example to a child is right and appropriate and proper not perverse and a con game. What a ridiculously anti scriptural notion.

What mess will he have to clean up? Really? What mess? You are accusing the man of destroying lives with an illustration with cat poop in it.

The scriptures are filled with some tough stuff to palate.
David collected the foreskins of 200 men
Joshua circumcised all the men born in the 40 years in the wilderness
The words "pisseth against the wall" are in the scriptures
Dinah's brothers Levi talked all the men in Shechem to get circumcised
The Song of Solomon has some pretty racy material including a description of womens breasts
The children of Israel were told to stop defecating beside their tent, and to go dig a hole and cover it after they had gone to the bathroom.

Yeah, the illustration was a little crude, perhaps in bad taste, but traumatizing? Get real.

 

[T-Bone]

Just unnecessary, unimaginative, unbiblical crass and course talk...really has no place in sharing the Gospel.  Someone was not thinking or they have a mind that can only think on the most base and ugly level!

 

[prophet]

What breed of cat was the poop from?  Us aliens are particular.

Is it an Asian Palm Civet?  Not technically a cat, but people call them cats.  And the coffee beans in their poop supposedly makes the best coffee. 

I don't know if it is the best coffee, but I know it costs the most.

Earnestly Contend

 

[prophet]

tim.... didn;t you post something a while back about wondering when it;s time to consider moving to a different church?......  ???


well........... if that was my church it would be time......  :-\


though it is by far not the most insidious thing i ever heard of a preacher doing on the platform...... what you described nonetheless ranks in the top 10 of the worst and potentially most abusive sermon illustrations / demonstrations, i have ever heard of...... ..... (jack hyles asking for a child volunteer so he could demonstrate how to do a proper spanking on them still ranks as number one).......

but if a preacher has the callous disregard to pull children out of the congregation and subject them to cat feces stirred into brownie mix in the middle of his sermon...... and the church allows him to get away with it.... then i would shudder to think what he might come up with next ........... i would have left in the middle of that sermon  and taken any child under my supervision with me..... .. and we would have not returned.........

After the older lady left I almost followed her out.

But. In our hearts my wife and I have resolved to be patent with this group of believers for the time being.

My wife wants to talk with the assistant pastor. You see, my son was asked to  help with the demonstration (setup table, clean up after service), and after Church HE TASTED THE CAT POOP BATTER!!!! I couldn't believe it and I begged my son to come clean and admit he was joking. But he wasn't. He said he was curious if it would taste bad.

Needless to say, he was clearly told never to taste anything with "poop" in it again!

I wondered if that new Jelly Belly game with gross flavors aided in his curiosity.

Sounds like he is a boy.

This is a good sign.

He ate his own poop, when he was a baby, and is fine.


Not sure why anyone needs cat poop to illustrate anything.

Earnestly Contend

 

[prophet]

Sounds like he is a boy.

This is a good sign.

He ate his own poop, when he was a baby, and is fine.


Not sure why anyone needs cat poop to illustrate anything.

Earnestly Contend

are you serious?........... 

have you ever heard of toxoplasmosis?.... t gondii?.... parvo?.... ???........ would you care to guess at what serious organic brain disorder is linked to toxoplasmosis in humans who have ingested cat feces? .............. there is a big difference in a persons own excrement and that of an animal or other organism.....

and didn;t you post here on this forum once that you studied medical biology in college?

you flunked out of it ... didn;t you?....

It's a wonder any of us live to 5 years old, isn't it?

Must be God put a pit of hydrochloric acid in the middle of us, among other things.


Boys will be boys, and you won't stop em from eatin a lil poo.

On the other hand, in case you missed it, I questioned the use of cat poop for an illustration....for the exact reason you expressed.
BTW, it isn't limited to cats.
Bat$#!* crazy didn't get named for no reason.
Any carnivore will have toxic poop.

And....any boy raised around cats will eventually end up tasting it one way or another.
And all the Dads say: 

Earnestly Contend

 

[prophet]

It's a wonder any of us live to 5 years old, isn't it?

Must be God put a pit of hydrochloric acid in the middle of us, among other things.


Boys will be boys, and you won't stop em from eatin a lil poo.

On the other hand, in case you missed it, I questioned the use of cat poop for an illustration....for the exact reason you expressed.
BTW, it isn't limited to cats.
Bat$#!* crazy didn't get named for no reason.
Any carnivore will have toxic poop.

And....any boy raised around cats will eventually end up tasting it one way or another.
And all the Dads say: 

Earnestly Contend

well maybe that explains what is wrong with some of you guys who grew up in fundamentalism..... ???...... how long have preachers been using this kind of cat poop in the brownie mix illustration?....... and how many of you actually tasted cat poop when you were boys?......  ???

toxoplasmosis sits in the human body dormant for years before it finally manifests itself....... and by the time it does it is too late to do anything about it........ brain damage has already taken place and a form of organic schizophrenia has set in........ and it just so happens the people most commonly suffering from it are men.....  :-\ 

that;s right..... there are a lot of middle aged men running around the country today who suddenly go crazy as an outhouse rat and without a clue as to why....... .... ingestion of dirt... leaded paint chips.... feces of various animals as a child are often considered among the possible causes unless, or until they can be positively ruled out.....

and yes i saw you question the need for cat poop in an illustration....... so why act like it;s no big deal that a preacher set up a demonstration using children which led to one of them tasting it?....... :-\

but seriously..... just to show you i;m not totally negative..... i would like take this opportunity to thank both you and itinerant preacher for confirming in my mind..  once again.. that my decision to move back to the catholic church and stay as far away as possible from a baptist church was the right one........... 

How did you take "no big deal" away from my post?

Look, you have no children, and you aren't a man.
You can relate to neither a parent nor a man.
You don't share our (either) emotions.

The first part of my post was reassurance to the parent, that their kid wasn't the only one who'd do such a thing.

The second part of my post was addressing the poop illustration.

You are definitely sounding more like some of my Catholic friends....paranoid, vindictive, etc.
They're lost....what's your excuse?

Earnestly Contend

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

........... some psychologist would love to tell you that your problems are because someone made you look silly, but his business is predicated on the fact that he needs a repeat customer, so curing you is not in his best interest, inventing maladies so you keep coming back is.........
.........

somehow i missed this little paragraph in your earlier post.......... whose problems are you talking about?......... ..do you seriously believe you can do more for someone with schizophrenia and a list of other mental illnesses  than a psychologist or psychiatrist could?...............

There is no psychiatrist or psychologist that can perform the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not one.  The scriptures contain al that pertains to life. All, not part.

There were no psychologists as we recognize them today before Wilhelm Wundt around 1879. The discipline did not exist.

We must then conclude God left us powerless until Wundt, Skinner, Freud, Jung, Dewey, and Titchener came along and lifted us out of the confusing mess of scripture we had been living in and set us on the right path.

He did not. He gave us all that pertains to life. All.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

........... some psychologist would love to tell you that your problems are because someone made you look silly, but his business is predicated on the fact that he needs a repeat customer, so curing you is not in his best interest, inventing maladies so you keep coming back is.........
.........

somehow i missed this little paragraph in your earlier post.......... whose problems are you talking about?......... ..do you seriously believe you can do more for someone with schizophrenia and a list of other mental illnesses  than a psychologist or psychiatrist could?...............

There is no psychiatrist or psychologist that can perform the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not one.  The scriptures contain al that pertains to life. All, not part.

There were no psychologists as we recognize them today before Wilhelm Wundt around 1879. The discipline did not exist.

We must then conclude God left us powerless until Wundt, Skinner, Freud, Jung, Dewey, and Titchener came along and lifted us out of the confusing mess of scripture we had been living in and set us on the right path.

He did not. He gave us all that pertains to life. All.

i guess you think all of medical science was just fine prior to this century too?........... today people survive heart attacks.. strokes... and many other serious conditions that would have killed them outright in previous centuries........ who do you think gave people in this era the ability to study medical science and improve on the way people suffering from those conditions are treated?.......... the same person who gave us the ability to study psychology and help people suffering from mental illness in a way better than just locking them up in rubber rooms and throwing away the key........... God.......

i have heard from people like you here many times before....... those who think psychological and even medical science should be pushed back to the dark ages........ and who tout their religious beliefs as the reason why.... and all of them... like you... seemd to imply they could do better than trained and educated professionals when it comes to treating or even curing both physical and mental diseases...... i have never seen a one of them prove it yet........

but can God cure any problem i have?...... absolutely.... and i believe He will when He is ready to..... in the past He did it though servants of God who were touched by Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit..... ... but the solemn fact is you are not God.... and you are not Jesus.... you are not one of His apostles...... neither were you ever touched by one........all you are is an arrogant man pretending to be an expert at something he knows nothing about......  and doing it for his own glory..... ... the Holy Sprit does not work through arrogant men seeking their own glory.... and He doesn;t work so arrogant men can prove themselves right..... He works to the glory of God... something those in the fundamental baptist camp haven;t cared anything about in a very long time.... if they ever did.......

i am probably less than half your size but you would not last 10 minutes in a room with me if i was totally off my meds... and suffering an acute psychotic episode...... nobody ever has.... and when it was all over i would probably not even remember it.... .....but you would never forget it.... if you made it out in one piece.... .. i wasn;t nicknamed chupacabra as a child because they thought it was cute...... and no... i am not proud of that ... we joke about it but only so far as to keep in mind what can happen if i;m not diligent about taking my meds or keeping it to a proper schedule.......

i am only here and able to function in a near normal capacity because of psychology - psychiatry and medication....... and all of those things were given to mankind by God..... a God that expects man to use the gifts He gives them and not sit by watching others suffer and die for the sake of their own religious arrogance......

yes.... God gives us all that pertains to life..... but not necessarily all at one time....... He gives us things when we are ready for them...... maybe He had to wait to give us psychology until recent times, so men like you who would rather burn people than help them.. could die off and become so rare they no longer posed a threat to the rest of us.... ..... .. who really knows why He waited?.... but i for one am thankful He gave it to us in my time.....

and btw... every doctor i have is a christian..... and everything they do starts with prayer....... 

God did not give us psychiatrists and psychologists. God gave us the local new testament church, and equipped it to minister to souls, to care for the body.

Psychology and psychotherapy are pseudo science, as attested by experts in the field themselves. You might look at the Smith Glass Meta analysis to find out that psychotherapy is smoke and mirrors.

 

[BALAAM]

........... some psychologist would love to tell you that your problems are because someone made you look silly, but his business is predicated on the fact that he needs a repeat customer, so curing you is not in his best interest, inventing maladies so you keep coming back is.........
.........

somehow i missed this little paragraph in your earlier post.......... whose problems are you talking about?......... ..do you seriously believe you can do more for someone with schizophrenia and a list of other mental illnesses  than a psychologist or psychiatrist could?...............

There is no psychiatrist or psychologist that can perform the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not one.  The scriptures contain al that pertains to life. All, not part.

There were no psychologists as we recognize them today before Wilhelm Wundt around 1879. The discipline did not exist.

We must then conclude God left us powerless until Wundt, Skinner, Freud, Jung, Dewey, and Titchener came along and lifted us out of the confusing mess of scripture we had been living in and set us on the right path.

He did not. He gave us all that pertains to life. All.

i guess you think all of medical science was just fine prior to this century too?........... today people survive heart attacks.. strokes... and many other serious conditions that would have killed them outright in previous centuries........ who do you think gave people in this era the ability to study medical science and improve on the way people suffering from those conditions are treated?.......... the same person who gave us the ability to study psychology and help people suffering from mental illness in a way better than just locking them up in rubber rooms and throwing away the key........... God.......

i have heard from people like you here many times before....... those who think psychological and even medical science should be pushed back to the dark ages........ and who tout their religious beliefs as the reason why.... and all of them... like you... seemd to imply they could do better than trained and educated professionals when it comes to treating or even curing both physical and mental diseases...... i have never seen a one of them prove it yet........

but can God cure any problem i have?...... absolutely.... and i believe He will when He is ready to..... in the past He did it though servants of God who were touched by Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit..... ... but the solemn fact is you are not God.... and you are not Jesus.... you are not one of His apostles...... neither were you ever touched by one........all you are is an arrogant man pretending to be an expert at something he knows nothing about......  and doing it for his own glory..... ... the Holy Sprit does not work through arrogant men seeking their own glory.... and He doesn;t work so arrogant men can prove themselves right..... He works to the glory of God... something those in the fundamental baptist camp haven;t cared anything about in a very long time.... if they ever did.......

i am probably less than half your size but you would not last 10 minutes in a room with me if i was totally off my meds... and suffering an acute psychotic episode...... nobody ever has.... and when it was all over i would probably not even remember it.... .....but you would never forget it.... if you made it out in one piece.... .. i wasn;t nicknamed chupacabra as a child because they thought it was cute...... and no... i am not proud of that ... we joke about it but only so far as to keep in mind what can happen if i;m not diligent about taking my meds or keeping it to a proper schedule.......

i am only here and able to function in a near normal capacity because of psychology - psychiatry and medication....... and all of those things were given to mankind by God..... a God that expects man to use the gifts He gives them and not sit by watching others suffer and die for the sake of their own religious arrogance......

yes.... God gives us all that pertains to life..... but not necessarily all at one time....... He gives us things when we are ready for them...... maybe He had to wait to give us psychology until recent times, so men like you who would rather burn people than help them.. could die off and become so rare they no longer posed a threat to the rest of us.... ..... .. who really knows why He waited?.... but i for one am thankful He gave it to us in my time.....

and btw... every doctor i have is a christian..... and everything they do starts with prayer....... 

God did not give us psychiatrists and psychologists. God gave us the local new testament church, and equipped it to minister to souls, to care for the body.

Psychology and psychotherapy are pseudo science, as attested by experts in the field themselves. You might look at the Smith Glass Meta analysis to find out that psychotherapy is smoke and mirrors.

Okay, right! From now on anyone with psychological or emotional problems or a broken leg or spurting blood, we just send them to a baptist preacher. The problem, as I see it, is that someone with psychological problems becomes one of the 'throw aways' in the typical ifb culture. I can quote the verses for you about the fruit of the spirit and peace etc. If a parishioner can't be emotionally healed in church he is thrown away and labeled as unsaved, demon-posessed, bitter, sinful, rebellious, and on and on.

 

[Walt]

While I agree with the point your pastor was trying to make, I do think there could have been better ways to illustrate his point. I think praise_yeshua had it spot-on.

And I echo his sentiments as well.  The Scriptures are more than apt at interpreting and expounding themselves systematically.  And if I might be a tad bit critical of the methodology, the sort of "shock jock" theatrics and coarseness that some pulpiteers and street preachers display really speaks (IMNSHO) of the lack of reliance on the truth that the Scriptures are sufficient and the power of God unto salvation.  For a parallel within those contemporary seeker type (think Perry Noble) churches, it is the equivalent of the church music group playing "Highway to Hell" as an intro to the Easter service, all with the intent to portray the bankrupt message of the worldview inherent to the message of folk like AC/DC.

Yes!  -- this!

 

[HeDied4U]

........... some psychologist would love to tell you that your problems are because someone made you look silly, but his business is predicated on the fact that he needs a repeat customer, so curing you is not in his best interest, inventing maladies so you keep coming back is.........
.........

somehow i missed this little paragraph in your earlier post.......... whose problems are you talking about?......... ..do you seriously believe you can do more for someone with schizophrenia and a list of other mental illnesses  than a psychologist or psychiatrist could?...............

There is no psychiatrist or psychologist that can perform the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not one.  The scriptures contain al that pertains to life. All, not part.

There were no psychologists as we recognize them today before Wilhelm Wundt around 1879. The discipline did not exist.

We must then conclude God left us powerless until Wundt, Skinner, Freud, Jung, Dewey, and Titchener came along and lifted us out of the confusing mess of scripture we had been living in and set us on the right path.

He did not. He gave us all that pertains to life. All.

i guess you think all of medical science was just fine prior to this century too?........... today people survive heart attacks.. strokes... and many other serious conditions that would have killed them outright in previous centuries........ who do you think gave people in this era the ability to study medical science and improve on the way people suffering from those conditions are treated?.......... the same person who gave us the ability to study psychology and help people suffering from mental illness in a way better than just locking them up in rubber rooms and throwing away the key........... God.......

i have heard from people like you here many times before....... those who think psychological and even medical science should be pushed back to the dark ages........ and who tout their religious beliefs as the reason why.... and all of them... like you... seemd to imply they could do better than trained and educated professionals when it comes to treating or even curing both physical and mental diseases...... i have never seen a one of them prove it yet........

but can God cure any problem i have?...... absolutely.... and i believe He will when He is ready to..... in the past He did it though servants of God who were touched by Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit..... ... but the solemn fact is you are not God.... and you are not Jesus.... you are not one of His apostles...... neither were you ever touched by one........all you are is an arrogant man pretending to be an expert at something he knows nothing about......  and doing it for his own glory..... ... the Holy Sprit does not work through arrogant men seeking their own glory.... and He doesn;t work so arrogant men can prove themselves right..... He works to the glory of God... something those in the fundamental baptist camp haven;t cared anything about in a very long time.... if they ever did.......

i am probably less than half your size but you would not last 10 minutes in a room with me if i was totally off my meds... and suffering an acute psychotic episode...... nobody ever has.... and when it was all over i would probably not even remember it.... .....but you would never forget it.... if you made it out in one piece.... .. i wasn;t nicknamed chupacabra as a child because they thought it was cute...... and no... i am not proud of that ... we joke about it but only so far as to keep in mind what can happen if i;m not diligent about taking my meds or keeping it to a proper schedule.......

i am only here and able to function in a near normal capacity because of psychology - psychiatry and medication....... and all of those things were given to mankind by God..... a God that expects man to use the gifts He gives them and not sit by watching others suffer and die for the sake of their own religious arrogance......

yes.... God gives us all that pertains to life..... but not necessarily all at one time....... He gives us things when we are ready for them...... maybe He had to wait to give us psychology until recent times, so men like you who would rather burn people than help them.. could die off and become so rare they no longer posed a threat to the rest of us.... ..... .. who really knows why He waited?.... but i for one am thankful He gave it to us in my time.....

and btw... every doctor i have is a christian..... and everything they do starts with prayer....... 

God did not give us psychiatrists and psychologists. God gave us the local new testament church, and equipped it to minister to souls, to care for the body.

Psychology and psychotherapy are pseudo science, as attested by experts in the field themselves. You might look at the Smith Glass Meta analysis to find out that psychotherapy is smoke and mirrors.

Okay, right! From now on anyone with psychological or emotional problems or a broken leg or spurting blood, we just send them to a baptist preacher. The problem, as I see it, is that someone with psychological problems becomes one of the 'throw aways' in the typical ifb culture. I can quote the verses for you about the fruit of the spirit and peace etc. If a parishioner can't be emotionally healed in church he is thrown away and labeled as unsaved, demon-posessed, bitter, sinful, rebellious, and on and on.

While it may be more prevalent in the IFB(x) culture, they certainly don't hold a monopoly on making those who deal with depression feel less than welcome. I've experienced it a couple of times in non-denom churches. As I've said in other threads here and on other forums, people don't tell someone with breast cancer or epilepsy to "suck it up." Why should it be different with mental illness? Those kind of folks are just ignorant @#$%^&*s.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Even I struggle with the false pretense that my fight with sin somehow causes my mental issues; as if Jesus Christ is angry at me for not being less a sinner under the blood so he curses me with some mental anguish. I did grow up in Churches that would label people with certain mental issues "demonic" ... and that leaves a mark I fear. The whole false teaching of "falling from grace" injects all manner of fear into a person. Even after they see the truth of God's eternal saving grace.

But. It isn't limited to psychiatric issues and the like. Some pastors will tell you that your financial struggles or health struggles are linked to not paying a tithe.

and they love to push those they have labelled as "demonic" completely out of church.... away from their families.... and even to suicide.......... because it makes them feel somehow justified in their persecution of the mentally ill when they self destruct and kill themselves.......

I have learned recently also that Churches push away the "disturbingly" down and out, the poor, the homeless ... one pastor told my pastor, "We don't help those people ..." and other man gave a report of being asked to stop inviting homeless people to his Church.

It is assumed that every man on the street corner is just a "bum" seeking to get their next fix. Or, they are just out for Obama entitlements and whatever else they can get, not what they can (are expected) give.

Our church participates in the Room In The Inn ministry where December through April, one night a week we shuttle homeless people into the church to sleep, eat a free hot meal, shower, clean laundry and are given a couple days of lunches (non-perishable items). We participate with other churches who rotate nights during the cold seasons. Once there are more volunteers, we plan on expanding to more nights a week. The church also offers classes for the community including Divorce Care, Divorce Care for Children, AA, elderly caregiver classes, etc.

 

[lnf]

I?m chiming in very late in this thread, but:

For the life of me, I can?t understand why a Christian would accept the advances in medical sciences (i.e. pharmaceuticals, surgical advances) and not accept the advances in psychological sciences, which, in fact, are also medical advances! 

Itinerant Preacher, your thoughts are anathema to me!  Unless you have never been to a doctor of any kind, never have taken an over the counter drug of any kind, never have taken a natural remedy of any kind, you, Sir, are a hypocrite, of the worst kind!