Cat Poop Sermon Illustration

[ItinerantPreacher]

I?m chiming in very late in this thread, but:

For the life of me, I can?t understand why a Christian would accept the advances in medical sciences (i.e. pharmaceuticals, surgical advances) and not accept the advances in psychological sciences, which, in fact, are also medical advances! 

Itinerant Preacher, your thoughts are anathema to me!  Unless you have never been to a doctor of any kind, never have taken an over the counter drug of any kind, never have taken a natural remedy of any kind, you, Sir, are a hypocrite, of the worst kind!

The answer is simple, the advances in psychological science do not exist, as attested by psychologists themselves.

Some of the comparisons on here have been to spurting blood and psychological medicine, a ridiculous comparison. One is demonstrable medical problem, it can be diagnosed, a cure can be administered. You can cure a broken leg, you can cure a deep cut, because you can see them, you can measure them, there is a known cure fro them. (By cure I simply mean a medical solution to the problem, one that works, and works permanently). But a psychological issue, no doctor can cure, they only treat them.

Get this, they cannot be diagnosed. Now, your North American Pschologist is going to tell you that what I am saying is not true, Bu Canada and the US make up about 1/5 of the worlds population, and the diagnostic material used here is not used in almost all of the rest of the world. The DSM V is being rejected by Psychologists in North America,

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-real-problems-with-psychiatry/275371/

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I?m chiming in very late in this thread, but:

For the life of me, I can?t understand why a Christian would accept the advances in medical sciences (i.e. pharmaceuticals, surgical advances) and not accept the advances in psychological sciences, which, in fact, are also medical advances! 

Itinerant Preacher, your thoughts are anathema to me!  Unless you have never been to a doctor of any kind, never have taken an over the counter drug of any kind, never have taken a natural remedy of any kind, you, Sir, are a hypocrite, of the worst kind!

The answer is simple, the advances in psychological science do not exist, as attested by psychologists themselves.

Some of the comparisons on here have been to spurting blood and psychological medicine, a ridiculous comparison. One is demonstrable medical problem, it can be diagnosed, a cure can be administered. You can cure a broken leg, you can cure a deep cut, because you can see them, you can measure them, there is a known cure fro them. (By cure I simply mean a medical solution to the problem, one that works, and works permanently). But a psychological issue, no doctor can cure, they only treat them.

Get this, they cannot be diagnosed. Now, your North American Pschologist is going to tell you that what I am saying is not true, Bu Canada and the US make up about 1/5 of the worlds population, and the diagnostic material used here is not used in almost all of the rest of the world. The DSM V is being rejected by Psychologists in North America,

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-real-problems-with-psychiatry/275371/

So how should we (Christians) care for someone who takes on the symptoms of what the psychological community label as "schizophrenic" ???

Exorcism. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

I?m chiming in very late in this thread, but:

For the life of me, I can?t understand why a Christian would accept the advances in medical sciences (i.e. pharmaceuticals, surgical advances) and not accept the advances in psychological sciences, which, in fact, are also medical advances! 

Itinerant Preacher, your thoughts are anathema to me!  Unless you have never been to a doctor of any kind, never have taken an over the counter drug of any kind, never have taken a natural remedy of any kind, you, Sir, are a hypocrite, of the worst kind!

The answer is simple, the advances in psychological science do not exist, as attested by psychologists themselves.

Some of the comparisons on here have been to spurting blood and psychological medicine, a ridiculous comparison. One is demonstrable medical problem, it can be diagnosed, a cure can be administered. You can cure a broken leg, you can cure a deep cut, because you can see them, you can measure them, there is a known cure fro them. (By cure I simply mean a medical solution to the problem, one that works, and works permanently). But a psychological issue, no doctor can cure, they only treat them.

Get this, they cannot be diagnosed. Now, your North American Pschologist is going to tell you that what I am saying is not true, Bu Canada and the US make up about 1/5 of the worlds population, and the diagnostic material used here is not used in almost all of the rest of the world. The DSM V is being rejected by Psychologists in North America,

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-real-problems-with-psychiatry/275371/

Contrary to what you think....

I've personally known several people that couldn't function without the medication they were prescribed by psychologist. Take my word for it. You don't want to know them off their meds.

Also, I don't know if you're familiar with this or not.... Looks like you're not..... but ADD ADHD are both diagnosed by psychologist. I know because I have been through it with my children. They have gotten better at truly identifying those who have the disorder and those that don't. I know parents that swear that ADD and ADHD diagnosis saved their children. I believe them.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

My wife is epileptic. There is no cure for her seizures - just the daily pills she takes to control them.

Should she go off them, die, and leave her children motherless?

Epilepsy is a physical condition, not a disorder as psychologists label their diagnosis.

Phsychologists are not allowed to label you with a disease, because a disease has empirical evidence of its existence. A disorder does not have to meet that criteria.

Here is the simple truth. You cannot cure a spiritual problem with medicine. Someone suicidal may need a sedative to preserve their life so you can talk to them, but no pill will cure a spiritual problem. Peace and healing for spiritual problems are found in the peace of God available through the blood of Christ, period. You cannot appease God with pills.

You cannot cure a physical problem by prayer alone. Certainly, God heals as He will, pray, get others to pray, but go to the doctor.

The problem is simple, the lines have been blurred. Non Christian doctors driving an agenda is not going to result in them seeking the Lord. As a matter of fact, tell an unbeliever, an agnostic or atheist that you have a spiritual problem and he will class you as having a problem for thinking your problem is spiritual. Tell that agnostic clinician you have that your problem is unrepentant sin and you are under the chastening hand of God, and they will likely label you as cuckoo for thinking that could even exist.  So, they want to heal spiritual problems with counsel and medication. If your problem is with God, no amount of medication with fix it, and truth is, the happy pill they give you (mood stabilizer) will likely cloud your mind so you don't repent and repair your fellowship with God.

 

[T-Bone]

My wife is epileptic. There is no cure for her seizures - just the daily pills she takes to control them.

Should she go off them, die, and leave her children motherless?

Epilepsy is a physical condition, not a disorder as psychologists label their diagnosis.

Phsychologists are not allowed to label you with a disease, because a disease has empirical evidence of its existence. A disorder does not have to meet that criteria.

Here is the simple truth. You cannot cure a spiritual problem with medicine. Someone suicidal may need a sedative to preserve their life so you can talk to them, but no pill will cure a spiritual problem. Peace and healing for spiritual problems are found in the peace of God available through the blood of Christ, period. You cannot appease God with pills.

You cannot cure a physical problem by prayer alone. Certainly, God heals as He will, pray, get others to pray, but go to the doctor.

The problem is simple, the lines have been blurred. Non Christian doctors driving an agenda is not going to result in them seeking the Lord. As a matter of fact, tell an unbeliever, an agnostic or atheist that you have a spiritual problem and he will class you as having a problem for thinking your problem is spiritual. Tell that agnostic clinician you have that your problem is unrepentant sin and you are under the chastening hand of God, and they will likely label you as cuckoo for thinking that could even exist.  So, they want to heal spiritual problems with counsel and medication. If your problem is with God, no amount of medication with fix it, and truth is, the happy pill they give you (mood stabilizer) will likely cloud your mind so you don't repent and repair your fellowship with God.

The problem with drawing these hard lines is that you presume that every problem people have is either physical or spiritual...mental health is not always a spiritual problem.  The brain is an organ of the body, it could be chemical imbalance or it could be organic problems that cause the emotional stress.  It also could be outside influences in a person's life that is not a matter of chemical imbalance or not organic, but as a result of extreme stress.  PTSD is an example of this.  These individuals need to be treated for what their problem is, not catergorized as being somehow spiritual inferior or deficient.  It would be cruel to tell someone with a physical illness that their problem is merely spiritual (I know you have heard of Job)...likewise it is cruel to tell someone with an emotional (mental) illness that their problem is merely spiritual.

 

[HeDied4U]

My wife is epileptic. There is no cure for her seizures - just the daily pills she takes to control them.

Should she go off them, die, and leave her children motherless?

Epilepsy is a physical condition, not a disorder as psychologists label their diagnosis.

Phsychologists are not allowed to label you with a disease, because a disease has empirical evidence of its existence. A disorder does not have to meet that criteria.

Here is the simple truth. You cannot cure a spiritual problem with medicine. Someone suicidal may need a sedative to preserve their life so you can talk to them, but no pill will cure a spiritual problem. Peace and healing for spiritual problems are found in the peace of God available through the blood of Christ, period. You cannot appease God with pills.

You cannot cure a physical problem by prayer alone. Certainly, God heals as He will, pray, get others to pray, but go to the doctor.

The problem is simple, the lines have been blurred. Non Christian doctors driving an agenda is not going to result in them seeking the Lord. As a matter of fact, tell an unbeliever, an agnostic or atheist that you have a spiritual problem and he will class you as having a problem for thinking your problem is spiritual. Tell that agnostic clinician you have that your problem is unrepentant sin and you are under the chastening hand of God, and they will likely label you as cuckoo for thinking that could even exist.  So, they want to heal spiritual problems with counsel and medication. If your problem is with God, no amount of medication with fix it, and truth is, the happy pill they give you (mood stabilizer) will likely cloud your mind so you don't repent and repair your fellowship with God.

So, if someone still suffers from depression, does that mean they don't have enough faith in God? That they missed a sin in their daily confession?

Why do some kooks insist that depression, suicidal tendencies, and the like are nothing but a spiritual problem? Some people can attend church, pray daily, do devotionals, study the Bible, fellowship with like minded believers and still spend six days in a mental health hospital over New Years because they tried to overdose on pills. Sounds to me like there's more going on than just spiritual issues.

But hey, what do I know, right? I'm not some sort of preacher / expert who thinks they have all the answers. I'm just a guy who deals with the daily issues of depression and knows what happens / how I feel if I skip my medications for a day or two.

 

[T-Bone]

My wife is epileptic. There is no cure for her seizures - just the daily pills she takes to control them.

Should she go off them, die, and leave her children motherless?

Epilepsy is a physical condition, not a disorder as psychologists label their diagnosis.

Phsychologists are not allowed to label you with a disease, because a disease has empirical evidence of its existence. A disorder does not have to meet that criteria.

Here is the simple truth. You cannot cure a spiritual problem with medicine. Someone suicidal may need a sedative to preserve their life so you can talk to them, but no pill will cure a spiritual problem. Peace and healing for spiritual problems are found in the peace of God available through the blood of Christ, period. You cannot appease God with pills.

You cannot cure a physical problem by prayer alone. Certainly, God heals as He will, pray, get others to pray, but go to the doctor.

The problem is simple, the lines have been blurred. Non Christian doctors driving an agenda is not going to result in them seeking the Lord. As a matter of fact, tell an unbeliever, an agnostic or atheist that you have a spiritual problem and he will class you as having a problem for thinking your problem is spiritual. Tell that agnostic clinician you have that your problem is unrepentant sin and you are under the chastening hand of God, and they will likely label you as cuckoo for thinking that could even exist.  So, they want to heal spiritual problems with counsel and medication. If your problem is with God, no amount of medication with fix it, and truth is, the happy pill they give you (mood stabilizer) will likely cloud your mind so you don't repent and repair your fellowship with God.

So, if someone still suffers from depression, does that mean they don't have enough faith in God? That they missed a sin in their daily confession?

Why do some kooks insist that depression, suicidal tendencies, and the like are nothing but a spiritual problem? Some people can attend church, pray daily, do devotionals, study the Bible, fellowship with like minded believers and still spend six days in a mental health hospital over New Years because they tried to overdose on pills. Sounds to me like there's more going on than just spiritual issues.

But hey, what do I know, right? I'm not some sort of preacher / expert who thinks they have all the answers. I'm just a guy who deals with the daily issues of depression and knows what happens / how I feel if I skip my medications for a day or two.

Spot on...bless you brother as you deal with your struggles...sadly many like IP have learned to mask their struggles in false piety...it allows them the feeling so spiritual superiority, false so!

 

[BALAAM]

This whole thread is starting to remind me of the book of Job. We are in good health, our flocks are in good shape, families good, finances good, so therefore Job we know that there is some type of secret sin in your life because if there wasn't you would be healthy, wealthy, and wise. We all know how that turned out.

As much as things change they are still the same.

 

[aleshanee]

My wife is epileptic. There is no cure for her seizures - just the daily pills she takes to control them.

Should she go off them, die, and leave her children motherless?

Epilepsy is a physical condition, not a disorder as psychologists label their diagnosis.

Phsychologists are not allowed to label you with a disease, because a disease has empirical evidence of its existence. A disorder does not have to meet that criteria.

Here is the simple truth. You cannot cure a spiritual problem with medicine. Someone suicidal may need a sedative to preserve their life so you can talk to them, but no pill will cure a spiritual problem. Peace and healing for spiritual problems are found in the peace of God available through the blood of Christ, period. You cannot appease God with pills.

You cannot cure a physical problem by prayer alone. Certainly, God heals as He will, pray, get others to pray, but go to the doctor.

The problem is simple, the lines have been blurred. Non Christian doctors driving an agenda is not going to result in them seeking the Lord. As a matter of fact, tell an unbeliever, an agnostic or atheist that you have a spiritual problem and he will class you as having a problem for thinking your problem is spiritual. Tell that agnostic clinician you have that your problem is unrepentant sin and you are under the chastening hand of God, and they will likely label you as cuckoo for thinking that could even exist.  So, they want to heal spiritual problems with counsel and medication. If your problem is with God, no amount of medication with fix it, and truth is, the happy pill they give you (mood stabilizer) will likely cloud your mind so you don't repent and repair your fellowship with God.

if you think you are going to just throw down a boat load of lies and garbage here.... post your usual filibuster on it, then walk away.............  think again..............

you wanted "empirical evidence"?...... something that will eventually convince the ignorant flat earth society hold outs like yourself, that mental illnesses like schizophrenia have physical causes behind them?........  here it is.....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/study-suggests-genetic-physiological-schizophrenia-cause/ar-BBoNKIj?ocid=ansmsnhealth11

this is the same kind of research and evidence what eventually led even the most ignorant of doubters.. who up until just a few decades ago preached seizures were caused by demon possession... to eventually ... though begrudgingly.... accept that they were indeed related to physical problems... .... ....... what will it take for you to stop burning the mentally ill at the stake in this century?..... or locking them up in rubber rooms and throwing away the key?....

this is a link to the new thread i started on the subject which also has a link to the report on the new findings..

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/continued-medical-research-on-schizophrenia/