Charlie Kirk: A True Miracle

Ekklesian said:
This from one who accepts magic bullet theories prima facia. :rolleyes: Is there anything the guvmint can say you won't believe?
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People who believe there's any such thing as a "magic bullet theory" (let alone "theories," plural, LOL!) do nothing but advertise that they only listen to "alternative" viewpoints--i.e. kooks.

Behold all the magicness! LOL!

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Ransom said:
People who believe there's any such thing as a "magic bullet theory" (let alone "theories," plural, LOL!) do nothing but advertise that they only listen to "alternative" viewpoints--i.e. kooks.

Behold all the magicness! LOL!

images
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That is one magical trajectory, unaltered by three impacts. :p
 
Ransom said:
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The round reportedly used in the JFK assassination was 6.5×52mm 160 grain round with a full metal jacket fired from a Carcano Model 91/38 bolt-action rifle.

The round reportedly used in the Charlie Kirk assassination was .30-06 Springfield cartridge, typically 165 grains, fired from a Mauser Model 98 bolt-action rifle.

The 30.06 is a much more powerful round than the Carcano round, and was fired from a greater distance.

Using AI to quickly compare and contrast the ballistic data to calculate the energy of each projectile at impact for their respective targets and distances, 80-100 yards for Kennedy, and 200 yards for Kirk, the results were: 1,642 ft-lbs for Kennedy, and 2,572 ft-lbs for Kirk.

Oswald's bullet, at 44% less energy, was able to pass through two human bodies with enough energy left over to shatter Connally's wrist, but Robinson's lodged in Kirk's neck?

Magic and miracles abound.
 
Ekklesian said:
That is one magical trajectory, unaltered by three impacts.
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Ekklesian said:
Magic and miracles abound.
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Goofy s-curve trajectory? Magic bullet!

More or less straight trajectory? Magic bullet!

You have to say that about conspiracy theoy: it's resilient, able to incorporate and explain/excuse even contradictory evidence. The real magic is your (gull-)ability to believe whatever the kooks tell you. It was on YouTube, so it must be true. LOL!
 
Ekklesian said:
The round reportedly used in the JFK assassination was 6.5×52mm 160 grain round with a full metal jacket fired from a Carcano Model 91/38 bolt-action rifle.

The round reportedly used in the Charlie Kirk assassination was .30-06 Springfield cartridge, typically 165 grains, fired from a Mauser Model 98 bolt-action rifle.

The 30.06 is a much more powerful round than the Carcano round, and was fired from a greater distance.

Using AI to quickly compare and contrast the ballistic data to calculate the energy of each projectile at impact for their respective targets and distances, 80-100 yards for Kennedy, and 200 yards for Kirk, the results were: 1,642 ft-lbs for Kennedy, and 2,572 ft-lbs for Kirk.

Oswald's bullet, at 44% less energy, was able to pass through two human bodies with enough energy left over to shatter Connally's wrist, but Robinson's lodged in Kirk's neck?

Magic and miracles abound.
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The answer is in the makeup of the bullet. A full metal jacket bullet does not expand (per international law). A standard hunting bullet is designed to expand, transferring as much energy as possible into the body of the target (the reason that they are forbidden in combat). I have made enough kills on game and destroyed inanimate targets (pumpkins are a good option) to know that the above distinctions do not speak to every bullet ever fired. On the subject of terminal performance on target, it is important to consider that every bullet can prove to be a law onto itself.
 
subllibrm said:
On the subject of terminal performance on target, it is important to consider that every bullet can prove to be a law onto itself.
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Your rebuttal is that each bullet is a singularity?

subllibrm said:
The answer is in the makeup of the bullet. A full metal jacket bullet does not expand (per international law). A standard hunting bullet is designed to expand, transferring as much energy as possible into the body of the target (the reason that they are forbidden in combat). I have made enough kills on game and destroyed inanimate targets (pumpkins are a good option) to know that the above distinctions do not speak to every bullet ever fired.
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More fun with A.I. :

Typically, how far in does a standard 30.06 hunting round (non hollowpoint) penetrate the neck or chest of a deer.

A standard .30-06 hunting round (non-hollowpoint, such as a soft-point bullet) typically penetrates 12 to 24 inches into a deer's neck or chest, depending on factors like bullet weight (150–180 grains is common), velocity, shot angle, and tissue density.
  • Neck Shot: Penetration is often less (12–18 inches) due to less dense tissue (muscle, smaller bones like vertebrae). A well-placed shot can sever the spine or major arteries, causing rapid incapacitation.
  • Chest Shot: Penetration can reach 18–24 inches, as the bullet may encounter denser tissue (ribs, lungs, possibly heart). Soft-point bullets are designed to expand, creating a wider wound channel while still penetrating deeply enough to reach vital organs.
These estimates assume a typical 150-grain soft-point bullet at 2,900–3,000 fps muzzle velocity, striking broadside at 100 yards. Heavier bullets (e.g., 180-grain) may penetrate slightly deeper but expand less. Shot placement and deer size (e.g., whitetail vs. mule deer) also affect outcomes. For precise data, ballistic gel tests suggest similar penetration depths, though field results vary due to bone impact or angled shots.



Same question, but from 200 yards?

At 200 yards, a standard .30-06 hunting round (non-hollowpoint, such as a 150-grain soft-point bullet) with a muzzle velocity of 2,900–3,000 fps will lose some velocity (roughly 2,500–2,600 fps at 200 yards), but penetration into a deer's neck or chest remains similar to closer ranges, typically 12–24 inches, due to the bullet's retained energy and design.
  • Neck Shot: Penetration is likely 12–18 inches, as the neck has less dense tissue (muscle, smaller bones). The slightly reduced velocity may cause marginally less expansion but still ensures sufficient penetration to disrupt the spine or major blood vessels.
  • Chest Shot: Penetration ranges from 18–22 inches, potentially slightly less than at 100 yards (by 1–2 inches) due to lower velocity. The bullet can still traverse ribs, lungs, and possibly the heart, creating an effective wound channel.
Factors like bullet weight (e.g., 180-grain bullets penetrate slightly deeper), shot angle, and deer size influence results. Ballistic studies indicate that at 200 yards, a .30-06 soft-point retains enough energy (around 1,900–2,200 ft-lbs) for reliable expansion and penetration in game. Field performance may vary if the bullet hits heavy bone or if the shot is not broadside.



Same question, but for a hollow point bullet.

A .30-06 hollow-point bullet (e.g., a 150-grain ballistic tip or similar hunting hollow-point) at 200 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 2,900–3,000 fps and approximately 2,500–2,600 fps at impact, typically penetrates less than a soft-point due to faster expansion and energy transfer. Penetration into a deer's neck or chest generally ranges from 10–18 inches, depending on bullet design, weight, shot angle, and tissue density.
  • Neck Shot: Penetration is likely 10–14 inches. Hollow-points expand rapidly in soft tissue, creating a wider wound channel but potentially stopping short of deeper structures like the spine in larger deer. This can still be lethal with proper shot placement (e.g., hitting major arteries or the spinal column).
  • Chest Shot: Penetration ranges from 12–18 inches, often slightly less than a soft-point (by 2–4 inches) due to the bullet's tendency to expand more aggressively, dissipating energy in the lungs or heart. It may fragment or stop if it hits dense bone like ribs.
Heavier hollow-points (e.g., 180-grain) may penetrate closer to 14–18 inches, while lighter, frangible designs (e.g., 130-grain) may be on the lower end. Ballistic gel tests show hollow-points in this caliber at 200 yards retain 1,900–2,200 ft-lbs of energy, ensuring expansion but limiting penetration compared to soft-points. Field results vary with bone impact or non-broadside angles.
 
Which magic do you want? The Kennedy Magic, or the Kirk Magic? You don't get them both.
 
Ekklesian said:
More fun with A.I.
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Remember when people like Gerald Posner and Vincent Bugliosi, or Jim Garrison for that matter, had to use actual forensic science and research to draw conclusions, instead of just asking an AI?

Yeah, why bother with all that work when all you need is ChatGPT or Grok to do your thinking for you? Elon Musk's computer told me, so it must be true. LOL!
 
If you want to go the "fun with AI" route, I can get an AI to tell me what I want to hear, too:


Did the bullet fired by Lee Harvey Oswald have enough kinetic energy to make the number of wounds it did in Kennedy and Connally?​

Yes, the bullet fired by Lee Harvey Oswald had sufficient kinetic energy to cause all the wounds sustained by President Kennedy and Governor Connally, according to ballistic and forensic analyses.​
The bullet in question—Warren Commission Exhibit 399 (CE 399), often dubbed the "magic bullet"—was a 6.5mm copper-jacketed round fired from a Carcano Model 91/38 rifle. The Warren Commission concluded that this single bullet passed through Kennedy’s neck and then struck Connally, causing multiple injuries:​
  • Kennedy: Entry through the upper back, exit through the throat.
  • Connally: Entry into the back, exit from the chest, shattered his right wrist, and lodged in his left thigh.
This trajectory resulted in seven entry/exit wounds, traversing:​
  • A back brace
  • 15 layers of clothing
  • 7 layers of skin
  • ~15 inches of muscle tissue
  • 4 inches of rib bone
  • A shattered radius bone.
Despite the seemingly improbable path, physics supports the plausibility. The bullet retained enough velocity after exiting Kennedy to penetrate Connally’s body and cause significant damage. Studies like those by Nicholas Nalli, using ballistic modeling, confirmed that the Carcano rifle bullet had high energy consistent with military-grade ammunition, capable of inflicting such trauma.​

Critics of the single-bullet theory often cite the bullet’s relatively intact condition when recovered. However, forensic experts argue that the bullet’s deformation is consistent with its path through soft tissue and bone, and its mass loss was minimal.​

In short, while the trajectory is complex, the bullet’s energy and the timing constraints captured in the Zapruder film strongly support the theory that one bullet caused all these wounds, making Oswald’s lone action plausible within the physical constraints of the event.​
 
Ekklesian said:
Your rebuttal is that each bullet is a singularity?


More fun with A.I. :

Typically, how far in does a standard 30.06 hunting round (non hollowpoint) penetrate the neck or chest of a deer.

A standard .30-06 hunting round (non-hollowpoint, such as a soft-point bullet) typically penetrates 12 to 24 inches into a deer's neck or chest, depending on factors like bullet weight (150–180 grains is common), velocity, shot angle, and tissue density.
  • Neck Shot: Penetration is often less (12–18 inches) due to less dense tissue (muscle, smaller bones like vertebrae). A well-placed shot can sever the spine or major arteries, causing rapid incapacitation.
  • Chest Shot: Penetration can reach 18–24 inches, as the bullet may encounter denser tissue (ribs, lungs, possibly heart). Soft-point bullets are designed to expand, creating a wider wound channel while still penetrating deeply enough to reach vital organs.
These estimates assume a typical 150-grain soft-point bullet at 2,900–3,000 fps muzzle velocity, striking broadside at 100 yards. Heavier bullets (e.g., 180-grain) may penetrate slightly deeper but expand less. Shot placement and deer size (e.g., whitetail vs. mule deer) also affect outcomes. For precise data, ballistic gel tests suggest similar penetration depths, though field results vary due to bone impact or angled shots.



Same question, but from 200 yards?

At 200 yards, a standard .30-06 hunting round (non-hollowpoint, such as a 150-grain soft-point bullet) with a muzzle velocity of 2,900–3,000 fps will lose some velocity (roughly 2,500–2,600 fps at 200 yards), but penetration into a deer's neck or chest remains similar to closer ranges, typically 12–24 inches, due to the bullet's retained energy and design.
  • Neck Shot: Penetration is likely 12–18 inches, as the neck has less dense tissue (muscle, smaller bones). The slightly reduced velocity may cause marginally less expansion but still ensures sufficient penetration to disrupt the spine or major blood vessels.
  • Chest Shot: Penetration ranges from 18–22 inches, potentially slightly less than at 100 yards (by 1–2 inches) due to lower velocity. The bullet can still traverse ribs, lungs, and possibly the heart, creating an effective wound channel.
Factors like bullet weight (e.g., 180-grain bullets penetrate slightly deeper), shot angle, and deer size influence results. Ballistic studies indicate that at 200 yards, a .30-06 soft-point retains enough energy (around 1,900–2,200 ft-lbs) for reliable expansion and penetration in game. Field performance may vary if the bullet hits heavy bone or if the shot is not broadside.



Same question, but for a hollow point bullet.

A .30-06 hollow-point bullet (e.g., a 150-grain ballistic tip or similar hunting hollow-point) at 200 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 2,900–3,000 fps and approximately 2,500–2,600 fps at impact, typically penetrates less than a soft-point due to faster expansion and energy transfer. Penetration into a deer's neck or chest generally ranges from 10–18 inches, depending on bullet design, weight, shot angle, and tissue density.
  • Neck Shot: Penetration is likely 10–14 inches. Hollow-points expand rapidly in soft tissue, creating a wider wound channel but potentially stopping short of deeper structures like the spine in larger deer. This can still be lethal with proper shot placement (e.g., hitting major arteries or the spinal column).
  • Chest Shot: Penetration ranges from 12–18 inches, often slightly less than a soft-point (by 2–4 inches) due to the bullet's tendency to expand more aggressively, dissipating energy in the lungs or heart. It may fragment or stop if it hits dense bone like ribs.
Heavier hollow-points (e.g., 180-grain) may penetrate closer to 14–18 inches, while lighter, frangible designs (e.g., 130-grain) may be on the lower end. Ballistic gel tests show hollow-points in this caliber at 200 yards retain 1,900–2,200 ft-lbs of energy, ensuring expansion but limiting penetration compared to soft-points. Field results vary with bone impact or non-broadside angles.
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Reading Ekk’s posts has cured my insomnia!
 
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Ransom said:
If you want to go the "fun with AI" route, I can get an AI to tell me what I want to hear, too:


Did the bullet fired by Lee Harvey Oswald have enough kinetic energy to make the number of wounds it did in Kennedy and Connally?​

Yes, the bullet fired by Lee Harvey Oswald had sufficient kinetic energy to cause all the wounds sustained by President Kennedy and Governor Connally, according to ballistic and forensic analyses.​
The bullet in question—Warren Commission Exhibit 399 (CE 399), often dubbed the "magic bullet"—was a 6.5mm copper-jacketed round fired from a Carcano Model 91/38 rifle. The Warren Commission concluded that this single bullet passed through Kennedy’s neck and then struck Connally, causing multiple injuries:​
  • Kennedy: Entry through the upper back, exit through the throat.
  • Connally: Entry into the back, exit from the chest, shattered his right wrist, and lodged in his left thigh.
This trajectory resulted in seven entry/exit wounds, traversing:​
  • A back brace
  • 15 layers of clothing
  • 7 layers of skin
  • ~15 inches of muscle tissue
  • 4 inches of rib bone
  • A shattered radius bone.
Despite the seemingly improbable path, physics supports the plausibility. The bullet retained enough velocity after exiting Kennedy to penetrate Connally’s body and cause significant damage. Studies like those by Nicholas Nalli, using ballistic modeling, confirmed that the Carcano rifle bullet had high energy consistent with military-grade ammunition, capable of inflicting such trauma.​

Critics of the single-bullet theory often cite the bullet’s relatively intact condition when recovered. However, forensic experts argue that the bullet’s deformation is consistent with its path through soft tissue and bone, and its mass loss was minimal.​

In short, while the trajectory is complex, the bullet’s energy and the timing constraints captured in the Zapruder film strongly support the theory that one bullet caused all these wounds, making Oswald’s lone action plausible within the physical constraints of the event.​
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You asked AI for a conclusion, and it gave you the Warren Report. I asked for ballistics data and calculations—not that I couldn't have looked up the charts and done the math myself, it's just that I don't have the time at present.

You have every freedom to cling to your cherished conclusions despite the data.

You either get Charlie's neck stopping a .30-06 round that would sink at least 12" into the tissue and bone of a deer, or you get Oswald's round passing through Kennedy, Connally, AND his boney wrist.

You don't get both. Not in Realsville, anyway.
 
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Here, I'll throw you a bone. LOL. No one with any real knowledge trusts the guvmint narrative, but you can rest in the knowledge that it's not [absolutely] impossible. :LOL:

 
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