Chemical Welfare

aleshanee said:
JustABigKid said:
aleshanee said:
JustABigKid said:
Actually the ball of drug testing is already in place for those who do work. I dare say that there is not a single employer that does not have some sort of drug testing policy. I had to take a drug test to begin my current employment and I have to take random test regularly to maintain my employment. It is as simple as that. If a working person has to do it then someone who is getting my tax dollars for free should to.

And I would be more than ok to take a drug test just to keep my license. I already have to do it to keep my job and I need my license to get to my job.

There are rules set up for those who have ligimate situations that require they need assistance in things like bus passes, etc. I am not being heartless here but if you would have seen the people I met for almost 2 years every single day you would be ok with Drug Testing as well especially when you see how they waste your hard earned tax dollars.

i have seen it.... my dad has been a firefighter paramedic with the state for over 25 years and he has seen it too..... he is also in the same boat you are in when it comes to random drug testing....... but in both your cases you can only tested while on the job..... in the case of what they are suggesting for people like me who receive any kind of public assistance... we would be subject to getting calls telling us to proceed to the testing lab any time of day or night.... 24-7 .....  and like i said ..... (and my dad supports me on this... he doesn;t believe i should have to submit to testing like that either)....  people will see me back behind the wheel of a car again before that happens.... :-\..... 

there are better ways to keep tax money from being wasted.... than by infringing on the rights of others in a way now, that will only result in your own rights being infringed upon in the future...... or to put it in the words of aesop.... freedom is too high a price to pay for satisfaction...
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I believe that there could be some stipulations for people with specific health problems to eliminate them from the process. I am not saying someone who has some sort of disability be that much more troubled with loopholes. I am talking about those that could and should be working but do not chose to do so because of welfare.

Some people on welfare consider that their job. They spend their days do the appropriate items to check the boxes so they can get next month's money. So why shouldn't they have to be under the same requirements.

i know what you mean.... and i definitely understand the sentiments.....  but there is what we think should happen... and there;s what we hope will happen.... and then there is the reality we are left with when we allow to government to pass a law we thought was only going to be for the best ..... but which the fine print and attachments spelled out something entirely different.... i;ll do what i have to do to drive again before i submit to random drug testing just to keep a free bus pass .... they tell me i have to ride a bus with some of the dregs of society as it is.... i;ll be back behind the wheel of a car again ... or just go ankle express everywhere i go... before i let them treat me like i;m the dregs too.....

I know that in one town I lived in they had a transportation service offered by one of the local government groups. They would give people rides to doctors, grocery store, etc as needed. The doctor would have to write up the referral once every 3 months as to the need. They had small what I call "people mover" buses or would pick up in minivans. It was only for those who really needed it. It was a great service and the city and the people of the city were more than happy to have it in their budget.

Check around and see if your city has something similar.
 
After reading this thread and seeing both sides of the issue regarding drug testing in particular, I believe I have softened my view a bit.  Where I once was for blanket testing, I can see where that is not exactly fair... 

Yes, I do believe there is great abuse in our social programs.  But how best to weed out the abusers without adversely affecting legitimate claims?  I'm not so sure I know the answer...but blanket drug testing is probably not it.

One thing that struck me many years ago was the claim (from someone I knew) that she couldn't work because she couldn't afford child care.  Well, that is a legitimate concern.  I thought at the time (and haven't changed my stance) that we should be offering "workfare" to those who are able to work.  In other words, I think that offering free or sliding-scale child care so that people can afford to go to work is better than just mailing a check.  I also think that we shouldn't necessarily cut people off from receiving certain benefits (using some arbitrary "line in the sand" income figure) when they are truly trying to be productive members of society.  For those able to work, I believe I hold a "leg-up, not a hand-out" mentality.  But there is a certain segment of society that cannot hold a regular job, through no fault of their own.  I don't believe we should place an unfair burden upon them to "prove" anything beyond a professional medical diagnosis.   

I know lots of people who are struggling to make ends meet, whether they receive any sort of benefit from the government or not.  There are plenty of people who are trying to do the right thing by their families...and there are also plenty of people who abuse the system.  It will take someone much wiser than me to separate the wheat from the tares...   
 
lnf said:
After reading this thread and seeing both sides of the issue regarding drug testing in particular, I believe I have softened my view a bit.  Where I once was for blanket testing, I can see where that is not exactly fair... 

Why test for blankets?  What's wrong with having a blanket? 
 
Castor Muscular said:
lnf said:
After reading this thread and seeing both sides of the issue regarding drug testing in particular, I believe I have softened my view a bit.  Where I once was for blanket testing, I can see where that is not exactly fair... 

Why test for blankets?  What's wrong with having a blanket? 

Blankets used to be a weapon in biological warfare, not chemical warfare. ;)
 
Castor and rsc2a...point taken.  ;D
 
lnf said:
One thing that struck me many years ago was the claim (from someone I knew) that she couldn't work because she couldn't afford child care.  Well, that is a legitimate concern.  I thought at the time (and haven't changed my stance) that we should be offering "workfare" to those who are able to work.  In other words, I think that offering free or sliding-scale child care so that people can afford to go to work is better than just mailing a check. 

Most states if not all actually have a program for this. You are required to turn in your hours every week. If you don't work for at least 2 -3 weeks in a row you lose childcare. If you need childcare to go to interview you simply call them and they find you a place to put your child for a few hours. Some of the programs depending on your pay and number kids require a small payment but it is something like $25/wk as compared to the $200-$300/wk normally charged.
 
Thank you for the information.  I haven't looked to see what my state offers.
 
To drug test someone doesn't change the fact they're poor. Considering they are self-medicating, -And- generally lack funds to see a Doctor (Poor) they seem the prime candidates for welfare. Ironically it's them targeted for disqualification. And since when is it a crime to be poor? Why link them to such? They're down and out enough already

It's the sickly that need a physician, not the healthy says Jesus to the Pharisees. Mark 2:17, Matt 9:12,Luke 5:1

Yet we want to deny the poor, aka generally our sickest, access to a physician? The signs they are self medicating don't tell us
they need proper medical care?


As Saints, we are commanded to point them towards they Great Physician.

However the world sets up their welfare programs...some masquarading as entitlement programs (Indian Health Service, College, Extended Unemployment for 1 yr beyond what was paid in) we can't use that as justification to deny meeting others basic needs. Even if some are flawed. Until the church steps up, it's all we have.

Being a Saint is pretty much synonymous with caring for the poor. It's irritating that all these programs are being misused by some, but remember, not by all. Many College graduates actually get jobs, putting back into the system they dipped into. Some have good reason not to work (though you'd think volunteering would suffice)  Urban Indian Health Centers often have multiple funding streams, including the opportunity to donate if you can. It's funded partly by the Indian Health Service. Another welfare program.  Our family (except my wife) participates in this welfare program. Even my Dad whose extremely wealthy but to his credit, he also ensures he donates far more than he gets. He is Full Indian yet often lies and says he's not,despite looking just like one. Sometimes says he's half indian. Never accepted welfare before. and my Mothers Real Father is half indian.Joining a federal tribe also allows for more welfare benefits essentially, we dropped our first membership and are attempting to get on with another Tribe.

ALso... when our son was a toddler, he had surgery. Instead of the hospital taking $80 a month from a 22 yr old who had a family, they denied me. It needed to be $100 a month. Wife's in school. Panic set in...Um no, sorry. Thinking our credit would be ruined, never would own a home etc..The shame ended quickly, turning to an enormous feeling of blessing I'd never felt. We will write it off. she said. YOU mean, this was FREE?? Oh how I wanted to spread the cheer, but being so poor just able to work 1 day per wk (had employees also) and be a stay home dad, no way. We would be poor for a long time.

God gives a blessing to both sides. Giver and Receiver. Just because Receiver is blinded doesn't mean it's not there. Maybe it will take a while. Though scripture says it's more blessed to give than to receive, my experience is that it has been equally rewarding. And if a pre-requisite was put as a barrier to that blessing,  I wouldn't have probably been worthy. Could pass a drug test but what if they chose some other kind of moral standard? I could have been denied.

Both situations God allowed me to give back more than I got. But if GOD chooses not to bless you with that ability (which is probably better considering it's the poor he seems to favor) you will probably be used in another blessed way. Maybe in Heaven wearing many crowns! Maybe leading others thru the Tribulation. Think of the joy in heaven when one sinner comes to repentance...he uses us caring for others basic needs, and spiritual needs, to lead them there.

To those that need it, go for it.

 

James 3:14-17 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to

Luke 14:13-14 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”


1 Corinthians 3:1-3
King James Version (KJV)
3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
 
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