Christian leaders with no scars is the problem?

[Tarheel Baptist]

An excellent observation about the current climate in evangelicalism.

http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-scars-on-your-forearms.html#more-105918

 

[Smellin Coffee]

An excellent observation about the current climate in evangelicalism.

http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-scars-on-your-forearms.html#more-105918

The Evangelical problem is not so much that of not standing against things such as homosexuality, immorality or social decay but rather its inability (or unwillingness) to look at the evils of the innate American-Christian culture: materialism, individualism and the pursuit of personal happiness and contentment in stuff.

Until we recognize that we have planks in our vision and strive to remove them, we have no right to remove the specks in the eyes of others. Besides, we would rather call our planks specks and call others' specks planks.

The problem of evangelical Christianity is not that of avoiding outside conflict with the world as much as it is refusing to admit and remove internal issues. And with this, I stand guilty myself.

Scars on my arms due to fighting? How about dealing with the cancer within my own soul?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

An excellent observation about the current climate in evangelicalism.

http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-scars-on-your-forearms.html#more-105918

The Evangelical problem is not so much that of not standing against things such as homosexuality, immorality or social decay but rather its inability (or unwillingness) to look at the evils of the innate American-Christian culture: materialism, individualism and the pursuit of personal happiness and contentment in stuff.

Until we recognize that we have planks in our vision and strive to remove them, we have no right to remove the specks in the eyes of others. Besides, we would rather call our planks specks and call others' specks planks.

The problem of evangelical Christianity is not that of avoiding outside conflict with the world as much as it is refusing to admit and remove internal issues. And with this, I stand guilty myself.

Scars on my arms due to fighting? How about dealing with the cancer within my own soul?

Every man must give an account of himself to God.
There is no cure for the cancer of sin but the blood of Christ.
He is the propitiation for our sin....He is our justification.
He bore our sins in His body on the cross.
That's grace....through which we are saved and not by works of righteousness which we have done!

That's Christmas, Easter and the reason for Thanksgiving!

 

[prophet]

An excellent observation about the current climate in evangelicalism.

http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-scars-on-your-forearms.html#more-105918

The Evangelical problem is not so much that of not standing against things such as homosexuality, immorality or social decay but rather its inability (or unwillingness) to look at the evils of the innate American-Christian culture: materialism, individualism and the pursuit of personal happiness and contentment in stuff.

Until we recognize that we have planks in our vision and strive to remove them, we have no right to remove the specks in the eyes of others. Besides, we would rather call our planks specks and call others' specks planks.

The problem of evangelical Christianity is not that of avoiding outside conflict with the world as much as it is refusing to admit and remove internal issues. And with this, I stand guilty myself.

Scars on my arms due to fighting? How about dealing with the cancer within my own soul?

I know it's a hobby horse of yours, SC, but individualism is only a sin to Socialists.
Take it off of this list, and we have a valid discussion.
Ecc 2:24
24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.
Ecc 3:12-14
12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life. 13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God. 14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever:nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it:and God doeth it, that men should fear before him
Ecc 3:22
22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion:for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

This is by no means a doctrinal thesis.  But I see, in this, the pursuit of one's own labour-for-reward.
I wouldnt fight over it...
Cuz I see fighting over this as contrary to the principal that I see this passage espousing.



Anishinaabe

 

[rsc2a]

Excessive individualism can be sinful just like excessive communalism can be.

The Christian family is built on a community...of individuals. Both aspects should be recognized and honored.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Excessive individualism can be sinful just like excessive communalism can be.

The Christian family is built on a community...of individuals. Both aspects should be recognized and honored.

Precisely.

 

[christundivided]

Excessive individualism can be sinful just like excessive communalism can be.

The Christian family is built on a community...of individuals. Both aspects should be recognized and honored.

Precisely.

What an oxymoron.

The Christian family is built upon CHRIST. When Christ becomes the central focus of both the individual and the community. Then you have a proper "family" environment. At times the stinking Pharisees honored/recognizes themselves individually and communally. So do the Mormons. The JWs... and most any cult imaginable. 

Just a reminder... you'll not face God as a "community".

 

[christundivided]

An excellent observation about the current climate in evangelicalism.

http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-scars-on-your-forearms.html#more-105918

The Evangelical problem is not so much that of not standing against things such as homosexuality, immorality or social decay but rather its inability (or unwillingness) to look at the evils of the innate American-Christian culture: materialism, individualism and the pursuit of personal happiness and contentment in stuff.

Until we recognize that we have planks in our vision and strive to remove them, we have no right to remove the specks in the eyes of others. Besides, we would rather call our planks specks and call others' specks planks.

The problem of evangelical Christianity is not that of avoiding outside conflict with the world as much as it is refusing to admit and remove internal issues. And with this, I stand guilty myself.

Scars on my arms due to fighting? How about dealing with the cancer within my own soul?

"Communal" sacrifice doesn't set the standard for proper service for Christ. Neither do "scars".

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Excessive individualism can be sinful just like excessive communalism can be.

The Christian family is built on a community...of individuals. Both aspects should be recognized and honored.

Brian: "You're all individuals!"

Crowd in unison: "YES WE'RE ALL INDIVIDUALS"

Brian: "You're all different!"

Crowd in unison:  "YES WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT"

Solo voice in the crowd: "I'm not"

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

 

[rsc2a]

I've found it is better for my soul if I just ignore CU.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

Are you saying that your perception has greater credibility because you've rejected what you once practiced....twice?  I reject polygamy and  human sacrifice....but confess I've never believed or practiced either. I also reject the liberal guilt trip because I've not taken a vow of poverty.....

 

[christundivided]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

I don't believe you can honestly place fundamentalists and evangelicals exclusively in the same grouping. Some of the things you've mentioned can be said of most any "group" that claim Christ. Most any group is rotten to the core with self promotion and self interest. It goes the core of pride and is part of a fallen nature affective in this world. Its is very rare that you find anyone that will do much of anything that's not in their "own self interest". If they do, their actions are often planned or used as a cloak of "righteousness" to justify the "end game".

 

[christundivided]

I've found it is better for my soul if I just ignore CU.

Ecc_11:10  Remove vexation from your heart



Merry Christmas

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

Are you saying that your perception has greater credibility because you've rejected what you once practiced....twice?  I reject polygamy and  human sacrifice....but confess I've never believed or practiced either. I also reject the liberal guilt trip because I've not taken a vow of poverty.....

I'm saying I do have more credibility based on my past personal human experience than would an outsider who only understood from what he has perhaps read or heard about. Not saying one should not form an opinion based on those things but rather that in a sub-culture, things are more intimately understood by those who have been entrenched at one point or another than those on the outside looking in.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

I don't believe you can honestly place fundamentalists and evangelicals exclusively in the same grouping. Some of the things you've mentioned can be said of most any "group" that claim Christ. Most any group is rotten to the core with self promotion and self interest. It goes the core of pride and is part of a fallen nature affective in this world. Its is very rare that you find anyone that will do much of anything that's not in their "own self interest". If they do, their actions are often planned or used as a cloak of "righteousness" to justify the "end game".

My intent was not to compare the two groups any further than how you describe it in this last post of yours (with which I agree).

BTW, when it comes to politics, I'm pretty much a centralist, neither liberal nor conservative. I just like pointing out to extreme right-wing advocates that at the core, motives are pretty much the same for both parties.

 

[Matthew1323]

Its is very rare that you find anyone that will do much of anything that's not in their "own self interest". If they do, their actions are often planned or used as a cloak of "righteousness" to justify the "end game".

Life would be sad, discouraging, and miserable for me too, if I shared your stated outlook concerning "others."

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

Are you saying that your perception has greater credibility because you've rejected what you once practiced....twice?  I reject polygamy and  human sacrifice....but confess I've never believed or practiced either. I also reject the liberal guilt trip because I've not taken a vow of poverty.....

I'm saying I do have more credibility based on my past personal human experience than would an outsider who only understood from what he has perhaps read or heard about. Not saying one should not form an opinion based on those things but rather that in a sub-culture, things are more intimately understood by those who have been entrenched at one point or another than those on the outside looking in.

From my limited perspective, I come to the opposite conclusion...you've rejected what you've practiced...twice!  Makes you more of an expert on vacillating....

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Either way. Neither you nor rsca are Evangelical. You reject the very core if its teaching and rsca runs around crying "victory" while abandoning a focus on Christ paying the penalty for our sins.

I can't speak for rsc2a but you are correct about me. I do attend an evangelical church but I no longer consider myself evangelical in belief or practice. That, however, does not negate the last two decades where my beliefs and practices toed the evangelical line nor does it negate the two decades before that where I was an overly-strict fundamental Baptist. Hence, my perception of both the fundamentalists and evangelicals comes from my years of experience in those realms.

Are you saying that your perception has greater credibility because you've rejected what you once practiced....twice?  I reject polygamy and  human sacrifice....but confess I've never believed or practiced either. I also reject the liberal guilt trip because I've not taken a vow of poverty.....

I'm saying I do have more credibility based on my past personal human experience than would an outsider who only understood from what he has perhaps read or heard about. Not saying one should not form an opinion based on those things but rather that in a sub-culture, things are more intimately understood by those who have been entrenched at one point or another than those on the outside looking in.

From my limited perspective, I come to the opposite conclusion...you've rejected what you've practiced...twice!  Makes you more of an expert on vacillating....

What you consider vacillating, I consider metamorphosis...

 

[christundivided]

Its is very rare that you find anyone that will do much of anything that's not in their "own self interest". If they do, their actions are often planned or used as a cloak of "righteousness" to justify the "end game".

Life would be sad, discouraging, and miserable for me too, if I shared your stated outlook concerning "others."

I would be naive, inexperienced, and immature too, if I shared your stated outlook concerning "others."

For the record. I'm not sad at all. Let me share a few words Our Master spoke of mankind.

Joh 2:23  Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
Joh 2:24  But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
Joh 2:25  And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.