Christian leaders with no scars is the problem?

[Tarheel Baptist]

The problem with a theme of fighting is that Christians fight more among themselves then with anyone else.

And this shall all men know you are my disciples if you go out and fight with the world.

Who did Christ fight with? The corrupt Roman government and culture? I think not. He fight with the legalists and corruptors of the Jewish religion. He affiliated himself with the sinners in order to minister in love and grace.

How Niemoller of you....

Never heard or read of him.

He's probably not familiar with you either. 

I suppose I'm too slow to understand the "Niemoller" reference.

I do believe in giving honor where honor is do. It takes great courage to stand alone against tyranny.

Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

I am reading Bonhoeffer right now. A contemporary of Niemoller I would presume.

Evidently, neither of them believed in the Sovereignty of God
...according to the logic of some here.

Although you can answer the questions directly asked of you. In case you missed them  ;D

However is God sovereign? Does He set up governments and kingdoms and tear them down?

When Jesus came to earth did He choose when that would happen with the government and kingdom?

Was it a very moral and pleasing to God kingdom?

Where was Christ's moral outrage at the government?

I find where he pays tribute as to not offend them, but never his outrage at their corrupt kingdom.

Of course the theme of his life and what he taught his followers was to cry out against a corrupt government. (tongue-in-cheek)

He did teach in His word that we pray for and be thankful for our leaders in these governments that we may live a peaceful life?


How about if the world understood more of what we are for then what we are against?

I don't know how the world views you, but our church is known for many things, things we're for and thing's we're against.
I'm a 5 point Calvinist, not an easy believism b*aptist, but I'm not a fatalist!
I can pray for those in authority over me at the same time oppose their policies...what about you?  :

Of course I can, and do.

However the point of your thread is that Christian leaders without scars...how did Jesus line up to that premise is my point.

You do?
When, how?
That's exactly what fishin's e-mail did.
Tell us how to do it right!

When and how did/do you oppose the policies of those in authority over you?

 

[Mathew Ward]

When and how did/do you oppose the policies of those in authority over you?

There is this new thing called voting, that we have the privilege of participating in.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

When and how did/do you oppose the policies of those in authority over you?

There is this new thing called voting, that we have the privilege of participating in.

You brave, civic minded beast, you!
Hitler would have/did love c*hristians like you.

 

[Mathew Ward]

When and how did/do you oppose the policies of those in authority over you?

There is this new thing called voting, that we have the privilege of participating in.

What we do is to invite and interview the candidates for all the elected positions, so we know their standing. We then make recommendations for folks on who to vote for and tell folks to vote for folks who hold to the morals of the Bible.

Once candidates are in office I take the time to setup an appointment and meet with them. Many times they are open for policy discussions.