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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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Umm…yeah, the third person scenario is the whole point.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
Guest
Are all of your conversations with people on a one-on-one basis in life? If you’re having a conversation with that person in a group setting (at least three or more people), then naturally you would invoke pronouns at times.
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That is exactly the point: to police your speech even when the subject of it is not present. To normalize the idea that you are what you say you are, not what you objectively are.
To refer to a trans "woman" (i.e. a man) as "he" or "him" in a conversation, rather than his preferred pronouns of "she/her," would invalidate his self-identity. And that, we have been informed, is tantamount to genocide.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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There’s also, again, the thought of which sword do I want to fall on. Referring to a biological male as a “she” doesn’t change my mind or conscience on the matter. If I refuse to acquiesce and insist on “misgendering” someone, I (a) anger the transgendered person, (b) most likely upset all of the snowflakes who inevitably will support the transgendered person, and (c) probably eventually lose my job and ability to support my family.
Now, all that being said, it’s easy to to take a tough stance on the matter when you’re already retired/near retirement and really have nothing to lose; or you work in a Christian environment where you know you’d probably be applauded for taking a tough guy stance; or you have enough in the bank that you really could care less one way or the other.
Now, all that being said, it’s easy to to take a tough stance on the matter when you’re already retired/near retirement and really have nothing to lose; or you work in a Christian environment where you know you’d probably be applauded for taking a tough guy stance; or you have enough in the bank that you really could care less one way or the other.
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I'll not deny it. I am grateful that I have only a few years remaining till I am out from under someone else's agenda; till I'm no longer held hostage by a paycheck or availability of health insurance. I cannot imagine the pressure facing younger folk who are facing 20+ years in that situation. I truly fear for them. I fear for the kids who are in school. The evil one will be using his minons to deceive them. This is part of the reason I cry, "Even so, come quickly, Lord!" I know He's in charge and by His grace, the just will live by faith, but it isn't going to be pretty.
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But, remember, a MAJORITY of those in their 20s and early 30s have already been brainwashed in these indoctrination stations we call schools, to accept these ideas and positions. I've got many, many nephews and nieces who accept it all as "scientific and social fact,," as I was told the other day. UGH!
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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I’m saying, if you had children to support and you knew you’d lose your ability to provide for your family by getting into an argument with a transgendered person over it, I don’t believe you’d choose to lose your job just to make a point. Obviously, this is pure conjecture on my part, but would also be on your part. I don’t believe 99% of Christians would sacrifice their jobs and families to win a pronoun argument. Sorry…not buying it.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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And winning a pronoun war won’t put food on my table or get me monthly Venmo donations from Ransom until I secure another job.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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I admit it’s hypocritical to participate in the pronoun charade, but it’s not a hill I’ll sacrifice my family and income on. I remember as a kid that my parents (and others from our church) wouldn’t go to restaurants that served alcohol because they thought it would be hypocritical to dine in such an establishment, and was tantamount to being in a bar. Well, all of those same people now have no problem doing so because you can’t find a restaurant that doesn’t serve alcohol in today’s world, other than some fast food establishments. Heck, even Cracker Barrel serves beer these days!
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
Guest
Here’s an interesting article by a pastor on the pros and cons of using preferred pronouns. It’s very well written and I agree with his conclusion: https://kainosproject.com/2022/08/18/pronoun-hospitality/
Therefore, for the sake of relationships and gaining an audience with people who have divergent pronoun preferences, it has been argued that practicing pronoun hospitality is not a matter of capitulation, but rather missional verve.
Therein lies the rationale with which I will take umbrage. "Do it so you gain an audience..." I say that's a bunch of hooey. If some TG has hardened themselves to the point of insisting that believers capitulate to their delusional self image, it is highly unlikely that such capitulation will result in a softening toward repentance. While "pronoun hospitality" is not a battle to die over, I believe we are deluding ourselves by thinking the practice will win converts.
Therein lies the rationale with which I will take umbrage. "Do it so you gain an audience..." I say that's a bunch of hooey. If some TG has hardened themselves to the point of insisting that believers capitulate to their delusional self image, it is highly unlikely that such capitulation will result in a softening toward repentance. While "pronoun hospitality" is not a battle to die over, I believe we are deluding ourselves by thinking the practice will win converts.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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I agree it’s probably not a gateway to evangelism, but it still makes some compelling arguments for both sides. Personally, since I disagree with the notion that people were created in the wrong body by God, I do everyone in my power to avoid using preferred pronouns of transgendered people, but in some scenarios, it becomes almost impossible to do so. On those rare occasions, I’ll do so if absolutely necessary. I certainly don’t go out of my way to do so, and if asked by a transgender person if I support or believe in such a thing, I would not lie about it, but I’ve never been in a situation where that’s happened.
Using a preferred pronoun on rare occasions isn’t the same as driving around with the trans bumper sticker on my vehicle and giving charitable donations to their cause.
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"Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?" (Rom. 6:1). We know Paul's answer to that question.
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I don’t know how to do multiple quotes so I will start here and refer to other points you made later.
My approach has been to refer to the person by name (proper noun). This is of course clunky and awkward but it breaks none of the rules.
As to career, income and the like. My experience with this issue up to now has been as an employee of a public school.
High school student. Was full on goth the school year that I met her. Over the summer she changed her name, started binding her breasts, cut her hair short and started dressing in an androgynous style. I accepted her request to be called by her new name. That was the only request she made. Not uncommon for teens to change their name (I went through a phase of wanting to be called by my middle name). The school never changed her paperwork nor instructed me to do anything differently. Some staff members would refer to her as he/him but most continued with she/her. In situations where I was speaking to a person who used the preferred pronouns, I just used her name.
To your point about losing the job. The only time that it would be necessary/possible for them to require me to use the preferred pronouns would be in a conversation with someone else and her being absent. To threatening my livelihood for refusing to comply would be a violation of my 1A rights against compelled speech. Add to the situation that the employer is a government entity eliminates the “1A doesn’t apply to private companies” argument.
As to whether we should fight or acquiesce, I will leave that to your conscience. If I had found myself facing the prospect of such a scenario I would trust the Lord to provide all my needs.
Yes, younger people are more likely to have bought into this. The truth isn’t based on opinion polls. I believe that the current situation is because the church has spent the last forty years trying to get spiritual results from political efforts. While we have poured blood sweat and tears into electing candidates who agree with us, we have neglected the responsibility of making disciples and training them to have the mind of Christ.
Lastly, the idea that we should not risk alienating people because we want them to find Christ is an example of the subtlety of the enemy’s lies. The truth shall set them free. The lie is that we have to “show them love” (acceptance of their sin) before we can hope to introduce them to Jesus. In the words of an old school evangelist: “You will end up loving them into hell”.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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You make some great points, which I respect. It’s shameful that people are even put into a position to make a choice of using a pronoun these days, but it’s the world we live in, unfortunately. I guess at the end of the day, even if I disagree with someone choosing to call themselves a pronoun other than what they actually are, I’ll respect that person enough to call them what they request as a matter of being polite. I’m not being asked to reject my Christianity by calling a him a her.
In this specific case, you need to pick your battles. I don't have authority to command which battles you ought to pick especially when referring to someone's preference of address. I categorically REJECT the notion that capitulation to their delusion keeps a door open to sharing the Gospel. In fact, I would contend that such capitulation has the EXACT OPPOSITE effect.
When we fear someone's wrath for how we refer to them, we are conceding power to them. Often it's power they they have absolutely NO authority to hold over us, either legally or spiritually. I, for one, do not recognize any power these people have over me in any way and I will not capitulate to their bullying.