Christians and Climate Change

The Rogue Tomato said:
subllibrm said:
Just heard a promo spot on Michigan Radio (NPR) for a expose' coming soon that will explain how climate change is causing a rise in allergy cases. I am sure the science behind it is nothing to sneeze at.  8)

LOL.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming2.html

A list of (not quite) all things blamed on global warming.

Here's the list, but visit the site for links to the sources for each entry.

Acne , agricultural land increase , Afghan poppies destroyed , Africa devastated,  Africa in conflict, African aid threatened, African summer frost , aggressive weeds , air pressure changes , airport malaria , Agulhas current , Alaska reshaped, moves , allergy season longer , alligators in the Thames , Alps melting , Amazon a desert , American dream end , amphibians breeding earlier (or not) , anaphylactic reactions to bee stings , ancient forests dramatically changed , animals head for the hills, animals shrink , Antarctic grass flourishes , Antarctic ice grows , Antarctic ice shrinks , Antarctic sea life at risk,  anxiety treatment , algal blooms , archaeological sites threatened , Arab Spring , Arctic bogs melt , Arctic in bloom , Arctic ice free , Arctic ice melt faster , Arctic lakes disappear , Arctic tundra to burn , Arctic warming (not), Atlantic less salty , Atlantic more salty,  atmospheric circulation modified , attack of the killer jellyfish , avalanches reduced , avalanches increased , Baghdad snow , Bahrain under water , bananas grow , barbarisation , beer shortage , beetle infestation , bet for $10,000,  better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects , billion homeless , billions face risk , billions of deaths , bird distributions change , bird loss accelerating , birds shrinking , bird strikes , bird visitors drop , birds confused , birds decline (Wales) , birds driven north , birds return early , bittern boom ends , blackbirds stop singing , blackbirds threatened , Black Hawk down , blood contaminated , blue mussels return , bluetongue , brain eating amoebae , brains shrink , bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain one big city , Britain Siberian , brothels struggle , brown Ireland , bubonic plague , budget increases , Buddhist temple threatened , building collapse , building season extension , bushfires , business opportunities , business risks,  butterflies move north, camel deaths , cancer deaths in England,cannibalism, cannibalism again , caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened , childhood insomnia, Cholera , circumcision in decline , cirrus disappearance , civil unrest , cloud increase , coast beauty spots lost , cockroach migration,  coffee threatened , cold climate creatures survive , cold spells (Australia) , cold wave (India) , computer models , conferences , conflict , conflict with Russia , consumers foot the bill , coral bleaching, coral fish suffer , coral reefs dying , coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, Cabbage Shortage , cost of trillions , cougar attacks, crabgrass menace,  cradle of civilisation threatened , creatures move uphill, crime increase , crocodile sex, crops devastated , crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems , curriculum change , cyclones (Australia),  danger to kid's health , Darfur , Dartford Warbler plague , death rate increase (US) , deaths to reach 6 million, Dengue hemorrhagic fever , depression , desert advance , desert retreat , destruction of the environment , disappearance of coastal cities, disasters , diseases move from animals to humans , diseases move north , dog disease , Dolomites collapse , dozen deadly diseases , drought,  ducks and geese decline , dust bowl in the corn belt , early marriages , early spring , earlier pollen season , Earth biodiversity crisis , Earth dying , Earth even hotter , Earth light dimming , Earth lopsided, Earth melting , Earth morbid fever , Earth on fast track , Earth past point of no return , Earth slowing down , Earth spins faster, Earth to explode,Earth's poles shift, earth upside down , earthquakes , earthquakes redux , earthquakes redux 2 , Egypt revolt , El Niño intensification , end of the world as we know it , erosion , emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost , equality threatened , Europe simultaneously baking and freezing,  eutrophication , evolution accelerating , expansion of university climate groups,

extinctions (human , civilisation,  logic , Inuit , smallest butterfly , cod, ladybirds , pikas , polar bears,  possums , walrus,  toads , plants , salmon , trout , wild flowers , woodlice , a million species , half of all animal and plant species, mountain species , not polar bears , barrier reef , leaches , salamanders , tropical insects)

experts muzzled , extreme changes to California , fading fall foliage , fainting , famine, farmers benefit , farmers go under , farm output boost , fashion disaster , fever , figurehead sacked , fir cone bonanza , fish bigger , fish catches drop , fish downsize,  fish catches rise , fish deaf, fish get lost , fish head north , fish stocks at risk , fish stocks decline , five million illnesses, flames stoked , flesh eating disease , flood patterns change , floods,  floods of beaches and cities , flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis , Florida economic decline , flowers in peril , fog (more) in San Francisco , fog (less) in San Francisco , food poisoning, food prices rise , food prices soar , food security threat (SA), football team migration , footpath erosion, forest decline , forest expansion , frog with extra heads , frostbite , frost damage increased , frosts , fungi fruitful , fungi invasion , games change , Garden of Eden wilts , geese decline in Hampshire , genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed , giant oysters invade,  giant pythons invade , giant squid migrate , gingerbread houses collapse , glacial earthquakes , glacial retreat,  glacial growth , glacier grows (California) , glacier wrapped , global cooling , global dimming, glowing clouds , golf course to drown , golf Masters wrecked , grandstanding , grasslands wetter , Great Barrier Reef 95% dead , Great Lakes drop , great tits cope , greening of the North , Grey whales lose weight , Gulf Stream failure , habitat loss , haggis threatened , Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome,  harmful algae , harvest increase , harvest shrinkage , hay fever epidemic , health affected , health of children harmed, health risks, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected,  hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, high court debates, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, horses shrink, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk , human race oblivion , hurricanes , hurricane reduction , hurricanes fewer , hurricanes not , hydropower problems , hyperthermia deaths , ice age , ice sheet growth , ice sheet shrinkage, icebergs , illegal immigration , illness and death , inclement weather , India drowning , infrastructure failure (Canada) , industry threatened , infectious diseases,  inflation in China , insect explosion, insurance premium rises , Inuit displacement , Inuit poisoned , Inuit suing , invasion of cats , invasion of crabgrass , invasion of herons , invasion of jellyfish , invasion of king crabs , invasion of midges,  island disappears , islands sinking , itchier poison ivy , jellyfish explosion , jets fall from sky , jet stream drifts north , Kew Gardens taxed , kidney stones , kidney stones again , killer cornflakes , killing us , kitten boom , koalas under threat , krill decline , lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties , lake shrinking and growing , landslides , landslides of ice at 140 mph , lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful,  lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!) , lawyers want more , legionnaires' surge , lives saved , Loch Ness monster dead , Locust plagues suppressed , Longer wprk breaks , Lopsided Earth , lush growth in rain forests,  Malaria,  mammoth dung melt , mango harvest fails , Maple production advanced , Maple syrup shortage , marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world) , Mediterranean rises , megacryometeors , Melanoma , Melanoma decline , meteors from space , methane emissions from plants , methane burps, methane runaway , melting permafrost , Middle Kingdom convulses , migration , migration difficult (birds) , migratory birds huge losses , microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly , minorities hit, monkeys on the move , Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days,  more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking,  mountaineers fears,  mountains break up , mountains green and flowering,  mountains taller , mortality lower , murder higher ,  Myanmar cyclone , narwhals at risk , National security implications , native wildlife overwhelmed , natural disasters  quadruple , new islands , next ice age , NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged , noctilucent clouds , no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying , oaks move north,  ocean acidification , ocean acidification faster , ocean dead zones unleashed , ocean deserts expand , ocean waves speed up , oceans noisier , opera house to be destroyed , outdoor hockey threatened,  ozone repair slowed, ozone rise , Pacific dead zone , penguin chicks frozen, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks , pests increase, phenology shifts , plankton blooms , plankton destabilised , plants lose protein , plants march north, plants move uphill,  polar bears aggressive , polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears deaf,  polar bears drowning,  polar bears eating themselves,  polar tours scrapped , popcorn rise , porpoise astray , profits collapse, prostitution, psychiatric illness,  puffin decline,  radars taken out , railroad tracks deformed , rainfall increase , rape wave , refugees , reindeer endangered , release of ancient frozen viruses , resorts disappear , rice threatened, rice yields crash,  rift on Capitol Hill , rioting and nuclear war, Rise and Fall of Rome,    river flow impacted , rivers raised , roads wear out , robins rampant,  rocky peaks crack apart , roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars , Ross river disease , ruins ruined,  Russia under pressure , salinity reduction , salinity increase , Salmonella,  Salmon Decline,  satellites accelerate , school closures , sea level rise , sea level rise faster , seals mating more , sewer bills rise , severe thunderstorms , sex change, sexual promiscuity , shark attacks , sharks booming , sharks moving north , sheep shrink , shop closures , short-nosed dogs endangered , shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine , ski resorts threatened , skin cancer , slow death, smaller brains , smog , snowfall increase , snowfall heavy,  soaring food prices, societal collapse , soil change , songbirds change eating habits , sour grapes , space problem , spectacular orchids , spiders invade Scotland , squid aggressive giants , squid population explosion , squid tamed , squirrels reproduce earlier , stingray invasion , storms wetter , stormwater drains stressed , street crime to increase, subsidence , suicide , swordfish in the Baltic , Tabasco tragedy , taxes , tectonic plate movement , teenage drinking , terrorism , threat to peace , ticks move northward (Sweden) , tides rise , tigers eat people , tomatoes rot , tornado outbreak , tourism increase , trade barriers, trade winds weakened , traffic jams , transportation threatened , tree foliage increase (UK),  tree growth slowed , trees in trouble , trees less colourful , trees more colourful , trees lush , tropics expansion , tropopause raised , truffle shortage, truffles down , turtles crash , Turbulence in air travel , turtle feminised , turtles lay earlier , UFO sightings , UK coastal impact , UK Katrina , uprooted - 6 million , Vampire bats , Vampire moths , Venice flooded , violin decline , volcanic eruptions , volcanic eruptions redux , Iceland volcano eruption,  walrus pups orphaned , walrus stampede , war , war between US and Canada , wars over water , wars sparked , wars threaten billions , wasps , water bills double , water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress , weather out of its mind , weather patterns awry , Western aid cancelled out,  West Nile fever , whales lose weight , whales move north , whales wiped out , wheat yields crushed in Australia , wildfires, wind shift , wind reduced,  wine - harm to Australian industry , wine industry damage (California),  wine industry disaster (France),  wine - more English  wine industry disaster (US),  wine - more English , wine -  England too hot , wine -German boon , wine - no more French ,  wine passé (Napa) , wine stronger , winters in Britain colder , winter in Britain dead , witchcraft executions , wolves eat more moose , wolves eat less, workers laid off , World at war , World War 4 , World bankruptcy , World in crisis , World in flames , Yellow fever.

and all on 0.006 deg C per year!

Is erectile dysfunction in there too? Seems to be a lot of that going on these days. Something must have caused it.  ;)
 
20140708130744_timemagazineiceageglobalwarming.gif
 
I am not going to argue for or against climate change.  I want to add two indisputable truths to the discussion.

1. God commanded us to be good stewards and take care of His creation
2. The American Dream(TM) is not a promise of God
 
QuestioningIFB said:
1. God commanded us to be good stewards and take care of His creation
2. The American Dream(TM) is not a promise of God
admin said:
3. The world will not come to an end... until the end.

4. And hence there is a divine mandate to keep polishing the brass.
 
QuestioningIFB said:
I am not going to argue for or against climate change.  I want to add two indisputable truths to the discussion.

1. God commanded us to be good stewards and take care of His creation
2. The American Dream(TM) is not a promise of God

Ummmmmm...has any one answered that call for an IP address check yet?

Until we get it, I'll address your "indisputable truths":

1. We are commanded of God in His Word to be good stewards of His mysteries and His grace (I Cor. 4:1-2, I Peter 4:10) and, as a bishop, to be the steward of God as demonstrated by the fruit of the Spirit working actively in our lives. If you wish to cover the context of the term as used in the gospels, it is in regards to, again, our using what he has given us (sort of like sanctified capitalists). I suppose, if you wish to use a broad lens, you can say that everything we do must be as unto the Lord (I Cor. 10:31 and Col. 3). To that I say, absolutely! Go forth and do what God told us to do from the beginning: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth (Gen. 1:28). We should exercise that dominion by His leading and principles, not by the those contrived by the rulers of the darkness of this world.

2. The "American Dream" means different things to different people. The biblical principles upon which this nation was founded are those things that have allowed us to partake of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness like no other nation before us. As we have lived by those principles in the past, God blessed us like no other nation before. We were used by Him to bring the glorious gospel along with hope and help to countless populations across this globe. We have freed the oppressed and defended our precious liberty, sometimes simultaneously. Sometimes unilaterally. It saddens me to see where we are now but I remember who we were. I will always fight for that - to keep it alive where I live and have influence. God has blessed America greatly. It is now time for America to turn from its wickedness and to bless God - while we still have the liberty to do such. If not, even so Lord Jesus, come quickly.
 
Green Beret said:
Ummmmmm...has any one answered that call for an IP address check yet?

I didn't see the request. It is a unique IP. No other account uses it.
 
FSSL said:
Green Beret said:
Ummmmmm...has any one answered that call for an IP address check yet?

I didn't see the request. It is a unique IP. No other account uses it.

OK. I'll keep my conspiracy theories (VPN, RDS, Spoofing, Dual ISPs, etc.) in check for now, but I'll be watching... ;D
 
admin said:
3. The world will not come to an end... until the end.

3b. The world will not come to an end ever.  ;)
 
Since when was God's command to have dominion over the earth permission to destroy it for temporary worldly comforts (or big profits if you are the CEO of a large corporation)?  That's all the wonders brought to us by industrial society really are.  Humanity could survive without the automobile and we could live without our homes being cooled/heated consistently at 72*F year round.  In fact some could say life in America was better before these things were considered essential necessities. 

Since when is America God's chosen nation and even moreso since when has material excesses i.e. the post-WWII American Dream been evidence of God's blessing?  Nations and powers rise and fall and they have throughout world history.  Some of the most wicked societies in all history have been the most blesses with material excess.  America will fall like the French Empire, the British Empire, the Ottoman Empire and the Roman Empire before it did because the only nation that God will preserve to the end is his chosen Israel.

That's not to say there isn't a problem when the environment becomes an idol that people place before God, but environmentalism is not inherently evil.  However, the love of money and worldly pleasures is.
 
QuestioningIFB said:
That's not to say there isn't a problem when the environment becomes an idol that people place before God, but environmentalism is not inherently evil.


"environmentalism" is a pretty vague term, kinda like saying "all IFBs are stupid", or "Christians killed the Muslims in the crusades".  Better definitions are in order, and context added, in order to have a more proper understanding of your perspective.  Could be a tree-hugger for all we know, of the Sierra Club variety or some such.
 
QuestioningIFB said:
Since when was God's command to have dominion over the earth permission to destroy it for temporary worldly comforts (or big profits if you are the CEO of a large corporation)?

Assuming for the moment you are not a troll or sock-puppet, give me a precise, intellectually honest example of the world being destroyed for worldly comforts (or profit).

QuestioningIFB said:
That's all the wonders brought to us by industrial society really are.  Humanity could survive without the automobile and we could like without our homes being cooled/heated consistently at 72*F year round.

I take it that you don't live in Florida or Watertown, WI. Of course the world could live as it did in the past, but just because you could do something doesn't mean you should do something. Break out the horse and buggy as well as the pooper scoopers! Oh, and let's do away with indoor plumbing, vaccines, electricity, flight, electronics, computing, Internet, oh, wait....no FFF.

QuestioningIFB said:
Since when is America God's chosen nation and even moreso since when has material excesses i.e. the post-WWII American Dream been evidence of God's blessing?  Nations and powers rise and fall and they have throughout world history.  Some of the most wicked societies in all history have been the most blesses with material excess.  America will fall like the French Empire, the British Empire, the Ottoman Empire and the Roman Empire before it did because the only nation that God will preserve to the end is his chosen Israel.

Really? Do you wish to receive a history lesson or are you just being rhetorical? The reason I ask is because what you just posted above is full of subjective assumptions. Unless, of course, you were educated in the defective, socialistic Dewey system of "social studies". In that environment, the conjecture of evolutionary "theory" becomes law and good becomes evil.

QuestioningIFB said:
That's not to say there isn't a problem when the environment becomes an idol that people place before God, but environmentalism is not inherently evil.  However, the love of money and worldly pleasures is.

I'm glad you qualified that statement about environmentalism (like you should have qualified the other ones). I have never met an "environmentalist" that didn't have the socialist/humanist/atheist agenda propelling them. 
 
I don't identify as fundamentalist or conservative evangelical. I belong to a mainline/liberal denomination (actually two of them: TEC & ELCA). I'm not YEC at all, but subscribe to the Framework hypothesis, which allows for either OEC or TE.

Politically, I've pretty much always been on the libertarian right, and am a member of the Libertarian Party. And I don't particularly believe any of the conspiracy theories.

I don't actively believe or disbelieve in climate change. I'm waiting for more evidence. But I don't trust the political motivations and agendas of either side in the debate, so that's mainly what I'm skeptical about.
 
[quote author=Izdaari]I don't actively believe or disbelieve in climate change. I'm waiting for more evidence. But I don't trust the political motivations and agendas of either side in the debate, so that's mainly what I'm skeptical about.[/quote]

Yes, this.
 
From my perspective, focusing on climate change takes resources away from more basic environmental concerns, such as clean air and water. The sources of air and water pollution can much more easily be studied, identified, and corrected.

My current denomination, the PCUSA despite its sad secular compromise on other issues, has had a lot of success with its clean water program Living Waters for the World. It's this type of environmental problem that a broad collation of Christians can help to alleviate by their support of these types of programs.
 
Izdaari said:
But I don't trust the political motivations and agendas of either side in the debate, so that's mainly what I'm skeptical about.

I accept the possiblity that man kind can have a lasting, damaging effect on nature, and don't accept the need to pollute if it's unnecessary. But I don't have the tools to evaluate the science, so I revert to my usual mildly-skeptical position when it comes to climate change. Paradoxically, it means I'm open to the solution even if I don't necessarily buy into the problem.

Ask virtually anyone whose opinion they trust on the subject of global warming, and they will probably name someone like Al Gore or Mark Steyn - virtually always a political pundit, not a qualified climate scientist.
 
Izdaari said:
I don't actively believe or disbelieve in climate change. I'm waiting for more evidence. But I don't trust the political motivations and agendas of either side in the debate, so that's mainly what I'm skeptical about.

The term "climate change" is itself a political one.  In the 70s, a new ice age was all the rage.  More recently, it was global warming. 

The problem is that the actual climate keeps making fools out of those who predict a consistent warming or cooling trend.  Hence the term, "climate change".  You can demonstrate that the world is not consistently cooling or warming.  But you can't deny that the climate changes. 

What cracks me up is that they get away with positioning climate change as a global crisis that can be solved only by doing things like refusing to take oil from Canada, so that China can burn it, instead. 

The_Stupid__It_Burns_by_Plognark.png
 
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