Church-less Christians

[TimbauxRioux]

Church-less Christians,,,,

I know more than a few. There are some who simply cannot find a church to their liking (which is understandable down here), others do not think the a church, as we know it today, is what the Bible describes in the New Testament.

Is there a New Testament model that should be followed that resembles what we see as churches today?

 

[rsc2a]

Plurality of elders would be high on my list of what defines a NT-modeled church.

 

[TimbauxRioux]

Plurality of elders would be high on my list of what defines a NT-modeled church.

thanks for responding..

I was trying to find out how people felt about meeting Christians who do not believe in attending church at all...or, they are at least content with not attending, even though they would attend if they could find one to their liking.

If one does NOT attend church, are there any passages you would show them, in Scripture, that would lead them to believe they should go... maybe for the sake of using their spiritual gift, being preached to and taught, etc.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Plurality of elders would be high on my list of what defines a NT-modeled church.

thanks for responding..

I was trying to find out how people felt about meeting Christians who do not believe in attending church at all...or, they are at least content with not attending, even though they would attend if they could find one to their liking.

If one does NOT attend church, are there any passages you would show them, in Scripture, that would lead them to believe they should go... maybe for the sake of using their spiritual gift, being preached to and taught, etc.

I'd be perfectly comfortable never attending what most people think of when you say "going to church". 

Here's why: 

1.  I really dislike the "worship" part (the part where you follow the bouncing ball, not the idea of worship, which is a 24/7 thing).  In fact, many years ago, when I attended a regular type of church, I'd deliberately show up at church quite late so I could miss the mind-numbing announcements and opening songs.  There was no sneaking out at the end, so I'd just stick it out.  Now, I can deal with and even enjoy the old hymns, but few churches I've attended use them.

2.  Sermons.  The last time I got anything out of a sermon was in 2002.  And that was at a church with no lead pastor, just multiple elders.  Since then, the only setting where I have been edified and was able to edify others has been Sunday School. 

Now, number 2, and both meanings are usually appropriate here, is the real sticking point for me.  Before I became completely disillusioned with the traditional church model, I'd attended all kinds of churches over a long period.  And it seems to me I heard the same sermons over and over again.  Sometimes almost word for word.  I think pastors (especially pastors of a kind, like SBC pastors) must all be preaching from the same sermon books.  Worse, the sermons are often replete with errors.  So I have to question if the pastors actually think about what they're preaching, or check the message with what the Bible really says. 

It's not a coincidence that the quality of the sermons were higher in a church with multiple elders.  The elders weren't tasked with regular Sunday "preechin", so they really studied what they were going to teach.  No sermon books or "what I learned in seminary last summer" crap here. 

In the past several years, I've shifted more to an NT style assembly, and it has its good and bad points.  I still hate the singing portion of the assembly.  That's just me, though, and I know why, but it's not important to explain.  And the topics and quality of speaking (people take turns speaking as they are led) can range anywhere from edifying to total cluelessness.  I've moved around a lot, so it's a struggle.  I don't think I'll really look forward to meetings again until I get to know the people. 

 

[Biker]

Church-less Christians,,,,

I know more than a few. There are some who simply cannot find a church to their liking (which is understandable down here), others do not think the a church, as we know it today, is what the Bible describes in the New Testament.

Is there a New Testament model that should be followed that resembles what we see as churches today?

Sure, it was given by the Apostle Paul. He laid the foundation we heed.

During the first tribulation, Noah and his family were the only righteous one's on earth. Noah was relentlessly persecuted. I imagine there are many Christians without a church, often because their churches are businesses, not biblically based.

 

[groupie]

Is there a New Testament model that should be followed that resembles what we see as churches today?

A house church.

 

[rsc2a]

Plurality of elders would be high on my list of what defines a NT-modeled church.

thanks for responding..

I was trying to find out how people felt about meeting Christians who do not believe in attending church at all...or, they are at least content with not attending, even though they would attend if they could find one to their liking.

If one does NOT attend church, are there any passages you would show them, in Scripture, that would lead them to believe they should go... maybe for the sake of using their spiritual gift, being preached to and taught, etc.

"...meeting Christians who do not believe in attending church at all..."

Unless I'm reading this wrong, the problem I would have would be your definition of "church".

 

[T-Bone]

The issues remain the same, just the place and the person leading changes...many leave church in what we call the traditional form cause they didn't get their way so they meet with their handful of disgruntled followers.  This is not true of all, but more common than most care to admit.

 

[Biker]

Is there a New Testament model that should be followed that resembles what we see as churches today?

A house church.

There ya go. I sure hope it catches on, seems that would solve alot of the issues. Especially the funding part.

Rogue Tomatoe has a great grasp upon this topic.

 

[Recovering IFB]

How about a church that focuses primarily on Christ. Rather than being more separated. Or having higher standards. Or bragging about having a bigger bus ministry,....

 

[Biker]

How about a church that focuses primarily on Christ. Rather than being more separated. Or having higher standards. Or bragging about having a bigger bus ministry,....

Now you done did it  8)

 

[TimbauxRioux]

House church is church. I think everyone would agree with it, but like in my area, we cannot hold weekly meetings that draw a number of vehicles..the fire marshall gets involved,..etc etc...

 

[Biker]

House church is church. I think everyone would agree with it, but like in my area, we cannot hold weekly meetings that draw a number of vehicles..the fire marshall gets involved,..etc etc...

A long time ago someone posted an article where a house church fought these laws and won. I'll try to find it

 

[Ransom]

Is there a New Testament model that should be followed that resembles what we see as churches today?

In his book The Church at the End of the 20th Century, in a chapter titled "Form and Freedom in the Church," Francis Schaeffer drew eight norms out of the New Testament, which consistute the sine qua non of a local church. To paraphrase:

[list type=decimal]
[*]There should be local churches made up of Christians. The local church is not optional.
[*]Congregations meet together in a special way on the first day of the week. Historically, Christians have always met on Sunday because that was the day the Lord rose from the dead.
[*]There must be officers (elders) that are responsible for the local church. "They had appointed elders for them in every church" (Acts 14:23). At least some of them are responsible for teaching and preaching to the church (1 Tim. 5:17).
[*]There must be deacons responsible for caring for the local church with respect to their material needs. Schaeffer believed that the contemporary church has dropped the ball on this score.
[*]The local church must take discipline seriously.
[*]There are specific qualifications for deacons and elders. See 1 Tim. 3, of course.
[*]There is a place for form on a wider scope than the local church. Denominational structures of some sort are not necessarily bad.
[*]The church practices two sacraments:baptism and the Lord's supper. We would tend to call them "ordinances" instead, but remember that Schaeffer was a Presbyterian, and he was using the term "sacrament" in Calvin's sense (a sign or symbol), not in the Romanist sense (a means of justifying grace).
[/list]

That, Schaeffer argues, is what the New Testament says a New Testament church looks like. Inside the form of the biblical norms, there is freedom: how many elders or deacons to have and what their specific duties are; the org chart of the local church or denomination; whether they meet in a purpose-built structure, rented facility, or private home; the specifics of the Sunday service liturgy; how often to have communion or baptisms; and so forth.

In other words, as long as those eight norms are met, there's no basis to say that one faithful church is more "New Testament" than another because they meet in a home or not, the leadership consists of trained, professional clergy or lay elders, and whatnot.