Church Split 101 Thread and beyond ...

[Tim]

What exactly is a Church split? Does the Bible ever define such a situation? My basic understanding of a Church split would be when two groups of people unite in a difference of opinion and one breaks off from the main Church. What makes it a negative term many times would be the fact that the split is based on something generally small that is made large by emotions. Something that could be mended.

Can a Church split ever be a good thing? Should it be encouraged? Discouraged? Should it be avoided if at all possible? When a group of people leave a Church is it always a split, or could it be seen as God leaving a Church to die with the faithful few?

With all the latest news at my local Church I find the fact that leadership seems a little insensitive to the Church split that is inevitable (perhaps viewed as people leaving a dead Church to help with something that is a Godly calling) as a sign of spiritual immaturity on leaderships part. I can't understand why anyone would be willing to see a Church die? Specially one who worked so hard to pastor it and ... well .. if it is your job to pastor I would wonder if allowing a split is the climax of pastoral failure.

I understand God can call people to different fields. But. If I am right, and a Church Split is a negative thing ... then can God ever use such a thing to start a work? At least, right off the start anyway. Seems less a God-thing and more a flesh thing.

I am trying to basically understand Church splits. The good, bad and ugly.

 

[FSSL]

Wow Tim... looks like you need to start looking for a new church!


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[Tim]

Wow Tim... looks like you need to start looking for a new church!

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After Christmas I already plan to visit a few in the area. We moved over the summer and our new area has a few Churches I never visited in the past. I plan to visit a few reformed ones as well.

My pastor showed me a logo today for his "new" church to get my feedback. I couldn't believe it. So soon?

 

[Twisted]

Seems less a God-thing and more a flesh thing.

Bingo.

Generally true, but not always. 

When the pastor starts to deviate from his original positions, and won't change, and won't leave, and you can't get him to leave because you don't have the vote, then you would be forced to find another place to fellowship.  That doesn't necessarily mean to "start" another "church".  ( I don't like the terms "starting a church".  You can't START a church [you ARE the Church], you can only "organize" a meeting place for the Church.)

Are there no other fellowships with which you could associate?

 

[prophet]

Wow Tim... looks like you need to start looking for a new church!

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After Christmas I already plan to visit a few in the area. We moved over the summer and our new area has a few Churches I never visited in the past. I plan to visit a few reformed ones as well.

My pastor showed me a logo today for his "new" church to get my feedback. I couldn't believe it. So soon?

You are viewing this as if your Dad had divorced your Mom, and then asked you to meet his girlfriend the next day....

earnestly contend

 

[Tim]

Wow Tim... looks like you need to start looking for a new church!

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After Christmas I already plan to visit a few in the area. We moved over the summer and our new area has a few Churches I never visited in the past. I plan to visit a few reformed ones as well.

My pastor showed me a logo today for his "new" church to get my feedback. I couldn't believe it. So soon?

You are viewing this as if your Dad had divorced your Mom, and then asked you to meet his girlfriend the next day....

earnestly contend

Interesting perspective. How would you perhaps suggest I view it?

 

[prophet]

I cant tell you that.

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[Tim]

I cant tell you that.

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My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Sometimes God purposely moves His people in ways that seem wrong to us.

Just sayin'...

 

[Tim]

Sometimes God purposely moves His people in ways that seem wrong to us.

Just sayin'...

I have consider this. And, further considered perhaps God wants me to move toward a totally different direction that doesn't include staying at the current Church or moving on with the pastor. A custom plan for me and my family. But - all matters of prayer. I just crave some Bible to pray along with and less emotions.

Truth also be told - I need some Godly men to help me. Crazy ... this forum is the closest I get to that. LOL

 

[prophet]

I cant tell you that.

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My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

Biblically speaking,  there is no such thing as a church CEO.

A strong church will have multiple bishops.
The movement of one, by God or not, wouldn't affect the congregation.

Does this help?

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[Tim]

I cant tell you that.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

Biblically speaking,  there is no such thing as a church CEO.

A strong church will have multiple bishops.
The movement of one, by God or not, wouldn't affect the congregation.

Does this help?

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

This is one of the items of contention between pastor and, well, we call them deacons ... the pastor felt he should have more "power" and they wanted to be more of a democracy where the people and the deacons had a say in decisions. Traditionally the Church was a body of believers working together - and that was one of the things that drew me to this model ... but the current pastor pushed to have it more central on him. And even after I talked with the pastor I learned one of the "perks" of his own Church would be not answering to the deacons and people when they didn't agree with his convictions.

My parents belong to a Church where they have no single pastor, but the elders work together to  bring messages and run the Church.

 

[prophet]

I cant tell you that.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

Biblically speaking,  there is no such thing as a church CEO.

A strong church will have multiple bishops.
The movement of one, by God or not, wouldn't affect the congregation.

Does this help?

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

This is one of the items of contention between pastor and, well, we call them deacons ... the pastor felt he should have more "power" and they wanted to be more of a democracy where the people and the deacons had a say in decisions. Traditionally the Church was a body of believers working together - and that was one of the things that drew me to this model ... but the current pastor pushed to have it more central on him. And even after I talked with the pastor I learned one of the "perks" of his own Church would be not answering to the deacons and people when they didn't agree with his convictions.

My parents belong to a Church where they have no single pastor, but the elders work together to  bring messages and run the Church.

I guess you'll be watching closely to see if the church corrects this issue or not?

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[Tim]

I cant tell you that.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

Biblically speaking,  there is no such thing as a church CEO.

A strong church will have multiple bishops.
The movement of one, by God or not, wouldn't affect the congregation.

Does this help?

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

This is one of the items of contention between pastor and, well, we call them deacons ... the pastor felt he should have more "power" and they wanted to be more of a democracy where the people and the deacons had a say in decisions. Traditionally the Church was a body of believers working together - and that was one of the things that drew me to this model ... but the current pastor pushed to have it more central on him. And even after I talked with the pastor I learned one of the "perks" of his own Church would be not answering to the deacons and people when they didn't agree with his convictions.

My parents belong to a Church where they have no single pastor, but the elders work together to  bring messages and run the Church.

I guess you'll be watching closely to see if the church corrects this issue or not?

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

While I say I will visit local Churches to consider a 3rd option .... my heart is hoping the Church will thrive and get a new pastor that is a Godly man and many issues will be corrected. This will allow me to have peace about staying. But - it is a tall order for sure, but God is good.

 

[FSSL]

This guy is not heading in the same direction, doctrinally, as you. Your current church is not heading there, either. My recommendation is that you start actively look for one that is a better fit.

You won't find Bible verses on the subject. However, since you may have other biblical choices, go to a church where you can minister with freedom of conscience and where you want to invite others to as well.


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[ALAYMAN]

Tim, you've changed a whole lot since coming onto this forum.  It's not necessarily a bad thing to grow and change, but done too hastily may cause damage to your family.  I understand that you are moving towards reformed doctrine, and as somebody who is not a Calvinist but is mildly "Calvinistic" I can sympathize with your hunger for some of the earmarks of a reformed model of worship.  Having said that, let me briefly say that the most die-hard Calvinist that I have ever personally known is a fine upstanding member of our church, and loves it.  You don't have to have every "I" dotted and every "t" crossed to be a part of a good evangelistic fellowship.  Just be careful to the old adage of those "given to change".

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I cant tell you that.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

Biblically speaking,  there is no such thing as a church CEO.

A strong church will have multiple bishops.
The movement of one, by God or not, wouldn't affect the congregation.

Does this help?

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

This is one of the items of contention between pastor and, well, we call them deacons ... the pastor felt he should have more "power" and they wanted to be more of a democracy where the people and the deacons had a say in decisions. Traditionally the Church was a body of believers working together - and that was one of the things that drew me to this model ... but the current pastor pushed to have it more central on him. And even after I talked with the pastor I learned one of the "perks" of his own Church would be not answering to the deacons and people when they didn't agree with his convictions.

My parents belong to a Church where they have no single pastor, but the elders work together to  bring messages and run the Church.

If your Pastor has had a change in his 'convictions' since becoming your Pastor and those Biblical (I assume) 'convictions' are what the issues are about, then he is probably doing the right thing by leaving.

 

[Tim]

I cant tell you that.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

My perspective of the whole thing really has evolved into a strong conviction that he (our pastor) is basically wrong. I know some would perhaps point to the internal selfish pain of a leader moving on and doing God's will - they might say this is what I am experiencing. But, I fear that my pastor has developed a distorted view of what a pastor and Church really is. And, for starters, I won't agree with chopping off spiritual body parts to see his Church get started. But - perhaps a personal matter is brought into a public arena a but too much with this ....

Truth be told, I am in great pain to understand this in a more Biblical way and was curious if you would have anything to add based on your original comment. My son used the term "stealing" people to grow a new Church. But, I am certain my own pastor would insist he isn't asking anyone to leave, they are leaving on their own accord.

Perhaps I am seeing 1st hand what happens when we "man worship" ....

Biblically speaking,  there is no such thing as a church CEO.

A strong church will have multiple bishops.
The movement of one, by God or not, wouldn't affect the congregation.

Does this help?

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

This is one of the items of contention between pastor and, well, we call them deacons ... the pastor felt he should have more "power" and they wanted to be more of a democracy where the people and the deacons had a say in decisions. Traditionally the Church was a body of believers working together - and that was one of the things that drew me to this model ... but the current pastor pushed to have it more central on him. And even after I talked with the pastor I learned one of the "perks" of his own Church would be not answering to the deacons and people when they didn't agree with his convictions.

My parents belong to a Church where they have no single pastor, but the elders work together to  bring messages and run the Church.

If your Pastor has had a change in his 'convictions' since becoming your Pastor and those Biblical (I assume) 'convictions' are what the issues are about, then he is probably doing the right thing by leaving.

He explained to me that his convictions always generally existed and that he was fine working within the boundaries that existed at our Church. He said that nothing really changed except that he felt God telling him to leave the limited Country church setting and move closer to a populated area where he can serve more people at a time. As he talked I could tell the restrictions of our Church were a huge benefit of leaving, but he insist they were not the genuine reason since those restrictions always existed. He has a heart to help the poor, homeless, down-and-out ... and those sort of people find it hard to walk down country roads to find a Church to help. He believes a Church on a main street will be right near the need.

What is a little crazy is that he already created a linkedin page, send me an invitation, and on that page he now lists the new Church he is starting as his current project. No mention of our current Church. That sort of thing, so soon after learning the news, makes it hard to take him serious and almost seems like fishing for men. Or at least starting to connect.

 

[Walt]

What exactly is a Church split? Does the Bible ever define such a situation? My basic understanding of a Church split would be when two groups of people unite in a difference of opinion and one breaks off from the main Church. What makes it a negative term many times would be the fact that the split is based on something generally small that is made large by emotions. Something that could be mended.

Can a Church split ever be a good thing? Should it be encouraged? Discouraged? Should it be avoided if at all possible? When a group of people leave a Church is it always a split, or could it be seen as God leaving a Church to die with the faithful few?

With all the latest news at my local Church I find the fact that leadership seems a little insensitive to the Church split that is inevitable (perhaps viewed as people leaving a dead Church to help with something that is a Godly calling) as a sign of spiritual immaturity on leaderships part. I can't understand why anyone would be willing to see a Church die? Specially one who worked so hard to pastor it and ... well .. if it is your job to pastor I would wonder if allowing a split is the climax of pastoral failure.

I understand God can call people to different fields. But. If I am right, and a Church Split is a negative thing ... then can God ever use such a thing to start a work? At least, right off the start anyway. Seems less a God-thing and more a flesh thing.

I am trying to basically understand Church splits. The good, bad and ugly.

The Scriptures don't discuss a church "split", but the Scriptures do talk about separation.  For example, if a pastor is preaching doctrine contrary to the Word of God, and you cannot get it corrected within the framework of the church, you don't have much of a chance but to leave.

As far as a working definition, a "split" is when a significant number of "core" families leave the church over some issue.

Usually, pride is at the root of many splits - someone doesn't like the way the pastor does something, or some choice he has made, or is hurt because he isn't put into a position of leadership, when he considers himself more spiritual than others. I've heard of splits over the color of carpet, and where the piano and organ are placed.  I haven't been involved in those kind of splits, but I seriously doubt that those trivial matters were the real cause -- they may just have been the incident that ignited a situation that was already in a bad way.

I wouldn't see a split as a pastoral failure alone; the pastor probably has some blame, but it isn't his exclusively.

Can a church split be a good thing?  Yes, when a church is teaching error, and people separate from the error, or when a bitter group decide to leave - amazing how disputes die down when the scorner leaves. However, a split is a thing to be avoided, if possible - it hurts the church's finances; it hurts the church's reputation locally; it discourages some people in the church.  I would not say it should be avoided "at all costs" - God's word should not be compromised just to avoid a split. But when it is a matter or pride, or hurt feelings, then "blessed are the peacemaker" who can reconcile two brothers in Christ.

My thoughts on the OP.

 

[prophet]

What exactly is a Church split? Does the Bible ever define such a situation? My basic understanding of a Church split would be when two groups of people unite in a difference of opinion and one breaks off from the main Church. What makes it a negative term many times would be the fact that the split is based on something generally small that is made large by emotions. Something that could be mended.

Can a Church split ever be a good thing? Should it be encouraged? Discouraged? Should it be avoided if at all possible? When a group of people leave a Church is it always a split, or could it be seen as God leaving a Church to die with the faithful few?

With all the latest news at my local Church I find the fact that leadership seems a little insensitive to the Church split that is inevitable (perhaps viewed as people leaving a dead Church to help with something that is a Godly calling) as a sign of spiritual immaturity on leaderships part. I can't understand why anyone would be willing to see a Church die? Specially one who worked so hard to pastor it and ... well .. if it is your job to pastor I would wonder if allowing a split is the climax of pastoral failure.

I understand God can call people to different fields. But. If I am right, and a Church Split is a negative thing ... then can God ever use such a thing to start a work? At least, right off the start anyway. Seems less a God-thing and more a flesh thing.

I am trying to basically understand Church splits. The good, bad and ugly.

The Scriptures don't discuss a church "split", but the Scriptures do talk about separation.  For example, if a pastor is preaching doctrine contrary to the Word of God, and you cannot get it corrected within the framework of the church, you don't have much of a chance but to leave.

As far as a working definition, a "split" is when a significant number of "core" families leave the church over some issue.

Usually, pride is at the root of many splits - someone doesn't like the way the pastor does something, or some choice he has made, or is hurt because he isn't put into a position of leadership, when he considers himself more spiritual than others. I've heard of splits over the color of carpet, and where the piano and organ are placed.  I haven't been involved in those kind of splits, but I seriously doubt that those trivial matters were the real cause -- they may just have been the incident that ignited a situation that was already in a bad way.

I wouldn't see a split as a pastoral failure alone; the pastor probably has some blame, but it isn't his exclusively.

Can a church split be a good thing?  Yes, when a church is teaching error, and people separate from the error, or when a bitter group decide to leave - amazing how disputes die down when the scorner leaves. However, a split is a thing to be avoided, if possible - it hurts the church's finances; it hurts the church's reputation locally; it discourages some people in the church.  I would not say it should be avoided "at all costs" - God's word should not be compromised just to avoid a split. But when it is a matter or pride, or hurt feelings, then "blessed are the peacemaker" who can reconcile two brothers in Christ.

My thoughts on the OP.

Too bad the Scriptures say nothing about any other head of the church, than Christ.
You'd think such a "foundational doctrine" as electing a single "pastor" to lead the church, would be mentioned in every epistle.

I have to laugh at you, when you insist on non biblical church leadership,  and wonder why you cant find Scripture dealing with the problems which your false doctrine creates.

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