City of Houston demands pastors turn over sermons

Smellin Coffee said:
So while the City of Houston indeed subpoenaed pastors' sermons, it appears it did so to investigate whether the churches engaged in political organization activities under the guise of preaching.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/houston.asp#VOqwkpkKt1VBOlq0.99

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/houston.asp

Though it isn't prohibiting freedom of religious expression against homosexuality, I believe it is still a violation of the Constitution.

Ya wanna rethink your answer about whether preaching against homosexuality will get you jailed or fined? ( http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/how-long-before-gay-hate-speech-criminalization-becomes-a-reality/)


;)
 
I don't know, maybe it is as bad as it seems.

Snopes' dopes say:

The investigation being conducted by Houston city attorneys is ostensibly about the validity of the petitions seeking the recall of HERO, but the nature of subpoenaed material has created the impression among many onlookers that it's really about a crackdown on anti-homosexual preaching in city churches.

And the subpoena says:

YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PRODUCE THE FOLLOWING RECORDS:

12. All speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO, the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession.


This is intimidation, pure and simple.  And I don't there's any mistaking what the intimidation is about. 

 
Several people have contacted me over the recent Fox News headline, “City of Houston demands pastors turn over sermons.” WND.com was even broader: “Houston demands oversight of sermons.” There is no doubt that the Mayor and City Council are radical and aggressive LGBT activists trying to advance their agenda against all morality and the will of the people in the actual subject matter behind these headlines. But the actual case does not warrant these alarming headlines, and our activists ought to be more responsible.
I write this only to calm some of the unnecessary alarm, and to introduce some reason and understanding into the mix. The headlines read as if the city has made some move to start monitoring all pastors’ sermons, and this simply is not the case. It also gives the impression that this is some out-of-the-blue, general attack tactic by the activists upon the pulpit. It is not. It is not out-of-the-blue, it is not broad and general as far as the implicated pastors goes, and it should not be a surprise at all.
The City is not making a move to monitor sermons. The city is merely responding to a lawsuit against it and using standard powers of discovery in regard to a handful of pastors who are implicated as relevant to the lawsuit. The issue is here: once you file a lawsuit, you open up yourself and potentially your friends and acquaintances to discovery. This is the aspect that has not been reported, but it is an important part of the context.
This is basic court procedure. But the headlines make it sound like a surprise attack by leftists advancing their agenda on unsuspecting Christians.
Even the Alliance Defending Freedom’s (they are representing the plaintiffs who filed suit) write up gives the impression that this is an attack on irrelevant bystanders, saying “the pastors are not even involved.” That’s not necessarily true. The pastors are not a party in the lawsuit, true, but at least some of them are quite possibly “involved,” and that’s a significant point. To the extent they are involved, Texas court rules (like most court rules) give allowance for discovery of evidence in their associations with the parties to the suit and the subject matter of it.
What is “discovery of evidence”? Is this some liberal tactic that has perverted our legal system? No, it is civil legal procedure 101. Granted, I am not a lawyer, but that’s the point: this is basic stuff. Once a case enters litigation, both sides have fairly broad—although protected and defined—allowances to demand papers, communications, etc., related to or potentially related to the subject matter of the case. Why? Because any relevant or related material may produce evidence crucial to the case. It’s a basic legal right that is important to justice in the big picture.
Further, it is not unprecedented at all for people who are not party to the case to be ordered by the court either to testify or produce materials during the discovery phase. That is what a subpoena is. It happens all the time, because even if you’re not actually a party in the suit, you may in fact have interacted with them in such a way and on relevant topics that your interactions are crucial, or at least relevant, to the case.
Let’s consider an example to which Christians can relate. Suppose an openly Christian mayor attended, during office hours, a Day of Prayer event outside the Mayor’s Office Building on a given date. I have no problem with that, of course, but suppose a local atheist group objected and filed a lawsuit. Let’s suppose further that behind the scenes, a Marxist nonprofit group, members of which are friends and colleagues with the atheist group, was possibly helping fund and coordinate the lawsuit for the purposes of destroying the mayor’s reputation and taking over the local city council. Yet the Marxist group is not a party to the suit. Would the mayor, now a defendant under fire, be legally interested in the communications taking place between those groups? Could those correspondences and even group speeches be relevant to the case? Could they exonerate the mayor? Maybe, maybe not. What if, possibly, those communications contain the only evidence that could exonerate the accused? Is it reasonable that those communications could at least lead to the discovery of relevant evidence important to the mayor’s defense? Depending on the nature of the claims filed, absolutely.
Now just flip the ideological sides in the scenario, and you have, essentially, the case before us. The Mayor is an open lesbian and LGBT activist. The City Council recently passed an ordinance that would allow transgenders to cross bathrooms in public. Predictable and rightful outrage ensued from Christians and conservatives. A local group of 400 pastors opposed the measure. Some of them apparently have connections with a petition drive, organization, coordination, and possibly even funding of the petition drive to overturn the ordinance. Then, when the mayor apparently overstepped her authority in rejecting signatures on the petition (that were already certified), a group of Christians and conservatives allegedly connected with this group of pastors filed a lawsuit. Do you think the defendants might be interested in the communications between those groups?
And what happens when you file a lawsuit? You open up yourself and your relevant friends to discovery. Are the correspondences between these pastors and the Christian parties who filed the suit relevant to the case? It is possible that a judge could determine this is the case. That is what this subpoena is about.
And as any savvy lawyer would do, the defendants’ attorneys cast the largest net possible in requesting information. In my opinion, it is unnecessarily broad. In my opinion, the vast nature of demands violates several of the checks and precedents built into the court’s rules for discovery. Even the Houston Chronicle called it “an unusual step.” But that’s part of what’s good about it. Those checks are there for a reason. Let’s be calm and file a demand that they be followed first before we cry end of the world. And sure enough, ADF’s motion to quash, or at least modify the subpoena, cites these very principles and checks. I think it is both perfectly justified and will be upheld by the court.
I think the court will probably not quash the subpoena entirely. I believe it will, however, require it to be modified with a much stricter scope. Of course, this will also depend upon the nature of the charges made in the original suit (which I have not yet been able to access), and the nature of the defense being made against those charges. But I doubt these pastors will ultimately be required to submit anything anywhere near what the defense demanded, if anything.
But what bothers me most here are the fear-mongering headlines. This is not an attack on all Houston area pastors, and no impression should be allowed in that regard. It is a routine court procedure, not even final yet, against a handful a pastors—and only because they are implicated in a court case filed.
But here’s the kicker in this particular case: as with all cases, all parties and their lawyers knew these rules before they filed suit. The city’s move should have been no surprise to anyone. They should have expected it—especially from liberal activists, who as we all know, are ruthless, restless, and play dirty.
So why are the headlines giving a different impression? I don’t know, but I can say that such fear-mongering could be used for some killer fundraising. I hope this is not the motivation.
It also plays into the overarching premillennial narrative of declining Christian influence in society. But actually, in this case, the reverse true. The orderly rules of discovery and evidence we have in place are the heritage of a Christian society which values rule of law and fair play—especially for the accused. Is it the case that miscreants can use these laws to their advantage, or even abuse them to a degree? Yes, but I would prefer that to the alternatives. As Paul Scofield said, for Sir Thomas More, in A Man for All Seasons, “I’d give the devil benefit of law for my own safety’s sake.”
Fear mongering is not needed, and in fact is unwarranted and damaging to the Kingdom of Christ in general. It is irresponsible to the real task at hand. What we need on this particular issue right now is a bit of courageous patience. It may be worth noticing that a former attempt to defeat the bathroom ordinance in question directly via a separate court order was rejected by the court because it believed adequate remedy was available through the appeals process with the current suit filed. Like it or not, such remedies sometimes take time.

Source http://americanvision.org/11407/houston-demanding-oversight-pastors-sermons/
 
Honey Badger said:
Several people have contacted me over the recent Fox News headline, “City of Houston demands pastors turn over sermons.” WND.com was even broader: “Houston demands oversight of sermons.” There is no doubt that the Mayor and City Council are radical and aggressive LGBT activists trying to advance their agenda against all morality and the will of the people in the actual subject matter behind these headlines. But the actual case does not warrant these alarming headlines, and our activists ought to be more responsible.
I write this only to calm some of the unnecessary alarm, and to introduce some reason and understanding into the mix. The headlines read as if the city has made some move to start monitoring all pastors’ sermons, and this simply is not the case. It also gives the impression that this is some out-of-the-blue, general attack tactic by the activists upon the pulpit. It is not. It is not out-of-the-blue, it is not broad and general as far as the implicated pastors goes, and it should not be a surprise at all.
The City is not making a move to monitor sermons. The city is merely responding to a lawsuit against it and using standard powers of discovery in regard to a handful of pastors who are implicated as relevant to the lawsuit. The issue is here: once you file a lawsuit, you open up yourself and potentially your friends and acquaintances to discovery. This is the aspect that has not been reported, but it is an important part of the context.
This is basic court procedure. But the headlines make it sound like a surprise attack by leftists advancing their agenda on unsuspecting Christians.
Even the Alliance Defending Freedom’s (they are representing the plaintiffs who filed suit) write up gives the impression that this is an attack on irrelevant bystanders, saying “the pastors are not even involved.” That’s not necessarily true. The pastors are not a party in the lawsuit, true, but at least some of them are quite possibly “involved,” and that’s a significant point. To the extent they are involved, Texas court rules (like most court rules) give allowance for discovery of evidence in their associations with the parties to the suit and the subject matter of it.
What is “discovery of evidence”? Is this some liberal tactic that has perverted our legal system? No, it is civil legal procedure 101. Granted, I am not a lawyer, but that’s the point: this is basic stuff. Once a case enters litigation, both sides have fairly broad—although protected and defined—allowances to demand papers, communications, etc., related to or potentially related to the subject matter of the case. Why? Because any relevant or related material may produce evidence crucial to the case. It’s a basic legal right that is important to justice in the big picture.
Further, it is not unprecedented at all for people who are not party to the case to be ordered by the court either to testify or produce materials during the discovery phase. That is what a subpoena is. It happens all the time, because even if you’re not actually a party in the suit, you may in fact have interacted with them in such a way and on relevant topics that your interactions are crucial, or at least relevant, to the case.
Let’s consider an example to which Christians can relate. Suppose an openly Christian mayor attended, during office hours, a Day of Prayer event outside the Mayor’s Office Building on a given date. I have no problem with that, of course, but suppose a local atheist group objected and filed a lawsuit. Let’s suppose further that behind the scenes, a Marxist nonprofit group, members of which are friends and colleagues with the atheist group, was possibly helping fund and coordinate the lawsuit for the purposes of destroying the mayor’s reputation and taking over the local city council. Yet the Marxist group is not a party to the suit. Would the mayor, now a defendant under fire, be legally interested in the communications taking place between those groups? Could those correspondences and even group speeches be relevant to the case? Could they exonerate the mayor? Maybe, maybe not. What if, possibly, those communications contain the only evidence that could exonerate the accused? Is it reasonable that those communications could at least lead to the discovery of relevant evidence important to the mayor’s defense? Depending on the nature of the claims filed, absolutely.
Now just flip the ideological sides in the scenario, and you have, essentially, the case before us. The Mayor is an open lesbian and LGBT activist. The City Council recently passed an ordinance that would allow transgenders to cross bathrooms in public. Predictable and rightful outrage ensued from Christians and conservatives. A local group of 400 pastors opposed the measure. Some of them apparently have connections with a petition drive, organization, coordination, and possibly even funding of the petition drive to overturn the ordinance. Then, when the mayor apparently overstepped her authority in rejecting signatures on the petition (that were already certified), a group of Christians and conservatives allegedly connected with this group of pastors filed a lawsuit. Do you think the defendants might be interested in the communications between those groups?
And what happens when you file a lawsuit? You open up yourself and your relevant friends to discovery. Are the correspondences between these pastors and the Christian parties who filed the suit relevant to the case? It is possible that a judge could determine this is the case. That is what this subpoena is about.
And as any savvy lawyer would do, the defendants’ attorneys cast the largest net possible in requesting information. In my opinion, it is unnecessarily broad. In my opinion, the vast nature of demands violates several of the checks and precedents built into the court’s rules for discovery. Even the Houston Chronicle called it “an unusual step.” But that’s part of what’s good about it. Those checks are there for a reason. Let’s be calm and file a demand that they be followed first before we cry end of the world. And sure enough, ADF’s motion to quash, or at least modify the subpoena, cites these very principles and checks. I think it is both perfectly justified and will be upheld by the court.
I think the court will probably not quash the subpoena entirely. I believe it will, however, require it to be modified with a much stricter scope. Of course, this will also depend upon the nature of the charges made in the original suit (which I have not yet been able to access), and the nature of the defense being made against those charges. But I doubt these pastors will ultimately be required to submit anything anywhere near what the defense demanded, if anything.
But what bothers me most here are the fear-mongering headlines. This is not an attack on all Houston area pastors, and no impression should be allowed in that regard. It is a routine court procedure, not even final yet, against a handful a pastors—and only because they are implicated in a court case filed.
But here’s the kicker in this particular case: as with all cases, all parties and their lawyers knew these rules before they filed suit. The city’s move should have been no surprise to anyone. They should have expected it—especially from liberal activists, who as we all know, are ruthless, restless, and play dirty.
So why are the headlines giving a different impression? I don’t know, but I can say that such fear-mongering could be used for some killer fundraising. I hope this is not the motivation.
It also plays into the overarching premillennial narrative of declining Christian influence in society. But actually, in this case, the reverse true. The orderly rules of discovery and evidence we have in place are the heritage of a Christian society which values rule of law and fair play—especially for the accused. Is it the case that miscreants can use these laws to their advantage, or even abuse them to a degree? Yes, but I would prefer that to the alternatives. As Paul Scofield said, for Sir Thomas More, in A Man for All Seasons, “I’d give the devil benefit of law for my own safety’s sake.”
Fear mongering is not needed, and in fact is unwarranted and damaging to the Kingdom of Christ in general. It is irresponsible to the real task at hand. What we need on this particular issue right now is a bit of courageous patience. It may be worth noticing that a former attempt to defeat the bathroom ordinance in question directly via a separate court order was rejected by the court because it believed adequate remedy was available through the appeals process with the current suit filed. Like it or not, such remedies sometimes take time.

Source http://americanvision.org/11407/houston-demanding-oversight-pastors-sermons/

I did not read or believe nor has anyone written that the issue is the city wants to monitor sermons. Neither has the flap over the city ordinance angle been hidden....I saw the gentleman from Fox who wrote the original article interviewed tonight and nothing in the above article was hidden.

The bottom line is that this is an attempt by the mayor and city council to intimidate and strong arm these  pastors, who, by the way were not involved in the 'bathroom litigation'.
 
Todd Starnes Facebook Page:

BREAKING NEWS: Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott is calling on the city of Houston to immediately withdraw the subpoenas against the pastors.

I have an exclusive copy of the attorney general's statement and will be discussing momentarily on The Kelly Files.

"Whether you intend it to be so or not, your action is a direct assault on the religious liberty guaranteed by the First Amendment," Abbott wrote. "Your aggressive and invasive subpoenas show no regard for the very serious First Amendment considerations at stake."

As of 9:21 p.m. eastern - the city had not rescinded the subpoenas.


I guess the Texas Attorney General didn't read the article on the American Vision website so he didn't  know it was simply much ado about nothing!
 
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status. 

 
ALAYMAN said:
Smellin Coffee said:
So while the City of Houston indeed subpoenaed pastors' sermons, it appears it did so to investigate whether the churches engaged in political organization activities under the guise of preaching.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/houston.asp#VOqwkpkKt1VBOlq0.99

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/houston.asp

Though it isn't prohibiting freedom of religious expression against homosexuality, I believe it is still a violation of the Constitution.

Ya wanna rethink your answer about whether preaching against homosexuality will get you jailed or fined? ( http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/how-long-before-gay-hate-speech-criminalization-becomes-a-reality/)


;)

Not at this point. One politician who is trying to manipulate does not make the entire country susceptible to making the preaching against homosexuality a criminal offense. If such actions aren't called out, such politicians voted against by the masses, or given credence by a Supreme Court ruling, then I would look to change my position. A solitary instance (even if a sporadic one) does not change my thinking.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.
 
FSSL said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.

True...and is anyone going to try to say that the government has not done similar things to non profit, tax paying businesses....remember the bakers and the gay wedding .
 
My question is how does speaking to an issue of morality qualify as political speech?
 
subllibrm said:
My question is how does speaking to an issue of morality qualify as political speech?
I don't think that is does, even if it inflames people, the issue is the potentially partisan activities these men and churches were involved in ie.

- The petition against the use of restrooms (The question is not did the Pastor participate, he has that right as a citizen, the question is did he use the church to be involved in partisan activities?)

- Pastor Riggle hosting the Democratic convention at Grace Community

These are the types of issues that will have potential traction in court, not what he said concerning a traditional Christian moral value.
 
FSSL said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.

It's pretty simple.  501(c)(3) status has legal requirements that restrict what you can say or do.  If you don't apply for or accept 501(c)(3) status, then you don't have to abide by those rules. 

The only reason anyone can legally subpoena a pastor to turn over his sermons is to determine whether or not he has broken those rules and is engaged in some kind of political activism.  But if he's not bound by tax-exempt status, he's not bound by those rules, and he can speak about politics 24/7, campaign against various bills and propositions, campaign for candidates, or do anything else he wants. 

This is more important than ever, because activist mayors like whatserface are turning opinions about LGBT into political speech. 
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
FSSL said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.

It's pretty simple.  501(c)(3) status has legal requirements that restrict what you can say or do.  If you don't apply for or accept 501(c)(3) status, then you don't have to abide by those rules. 

The only reason anyone can legally subpoena a pastor to turn over his sermons is to determine whether or not he has broken those rules and is engaged in some kind of political activism.  But if he's not bound by tax-exempt status, he's not bound by those rules, and he can speak about politics 24/7, campaign against various bills and propositions, campaign for candidates, or do anything else he wants. 

This is more important than ever, because activist mayors like whatserface are turning opinions about LGBT into political speech.
Similar laws exist in Canada btw
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
FSSL said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.

It's pretty simple.  501(c)(3) status has legal requirements that restrict what you can say or do.  If you don't apply for or accept 501(c)(3) status, then you don't have to abide by those rules. 

The only reason anyone can legally subpoena a pastor to turn over his sermons is to determine whether or not he has broken those rules and is engaged in some kind of political activism.  But if he's not bound by tax-exempt status, he's not bound by those rules, and he can speak about politics 24/7, campaign against various bills and propositions, campaign for candidates, or do anything else he wants. 

This is more important than ever, because activist mayors like whatserface are turning opinions about LGBT into political speech.

You are mistaken.
A church or Pastor cannot endorse a candidate.
Political activism is not prohibited.
And, it is not legal to subpoena a Pastors sermon notes!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
FSSL said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.

It's pretty simple.  501(c)(3) status has legal requirements that restrict what you can say or do.  If you don't apply for or accept 501(c)(3) status, then you don't have to abide by those rules. 

The only reason anyone can legally subpoena a pastor to turn over his sermons is to determine whether or not he has broken those rules and is engaged in some kind of political activism.  But if he's not bound by tax-exempt status, he's not bound by those rules, and he can speak about politics 24/7, campaign against various bills and propositions, campaign for candidates, or do anything else he wants. 

This is more important than ever, because activist mayors like whatserface are turning opinions about LGBT into political speech.

You are mistaken.
A church or Pastor cannot endorse a candidate.
Political activism is not prohibited.
And, it is not legal to subpoena a Pastors sermon notes!

I don't know if you're joking or what.  For what it's worth, here's the language from IRS:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.  Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Also from irs.gov:  "no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation" -- so it's not just political campaigns that matter.  You can't be a 501(c)(3) and attempt to get people to vote for/against some legislation (like HERO, in the case of the Houston thing). 

IANAL, but if someone sues a church organization for violating their 501(c)(3) status, I imagine it should be legal to subpoena the pastor's sermons to find out if he was really trying to influence legislation or was campaigning for/against the mayor (or anyone else). 

But if the church organization does not have 501(c)(3) status, then nobody can sue for violating it, and no subpoena could be issued.  And the pastor(s) and members of the assembly can say whatever they damn well please. 

 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
FSSL said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
A lot of this could be avoided by Christian organizations not looking for or accepting tax exempt status.
I never understood this argument. A church can operate as any other nonprofit and take advantage of not paying taxes. The government does not hold any special leverage on a nonprofit.

It's pretty simple.  501(c)(3) status has legal requirements that restrict what you can say or do.  If you don't apply for or accept 501(c)(3) status, then you don't have to abide by those rules. 

The only reason anyone can legally subpoena a pastor to turn over his sermons is to determine whether or not he has broken those rules and is engaged in some kind of political activism.  But if he's not bound by tax-exempt status, he's not bound by those rules, and he can speak about politics 24/7, campaign against various bills and propositions, campaign for candidates, or do anything else he wants. 

This is more important than ever, because activist mayors like whatserface are turning opinions about LGBT into political speech.

You are mistaken.
A church or Pastor cannot endorse a candidate.
Political activism is not prohibited.
And, it is not legal to subpoena a Pastors sermon notes!

I don't know if you're joking or what.  For what it's worth, here's the language from IRS:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.  Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Also from irs.gov:  "no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation" -- so it's not just political campaigns that matter.  You can't be a 501(c)(3) and attempt to get people to vote for/against some legislation (like HERO, in the case of the Houston thing). 

IANAL, but if someone sues a church organization for violating their 501(c)(3) status, I imagine it should be legal to subpoena the pastor's sermons to find out if he was really trying to influence legislation or was campaigning for/against the mayor (or anyone else). 

But if the church organization does not have 501(c)(3) status, then nobody can sue for violating it, and no subpoena could be issued.  And the pastor(s) and members of the assembly can say whatever they damn well please.

You have a very narrow view of political activism. It is much more than political campaigns and influencing legislation is also left to a broad interpretation.

In NC, the liberal and African American clergy lead weekly Moral Monday rally's and even sit ins to protest the evil Republican agenda in Raleigh. There is nothing wrong with a Pastor preaching on abortion, homosexuality or any other moral issue. Now, they (in Houston) seem to want to change the interpretation in mid stream...but that's just liberalism.

Our church registers voters weekly preceding elections....not a violation of any law.
The Pastors in Houston were not a part of the legislation proceedings, yet their sermons were subpoenaed.
 
While I live in another country that has similar albeit different rules, I tend to agree with TRT here.

The fact that a law is not being enforced does not mean it is not being violated, and the cases or situations that get prosecuted can be very much on a pick and choose basis.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
While I live in another country that has similar albeit different rules, I tend to agree with TRT here.

The fact that a law is not being enforced does not mean it is not being violated, and the cases or situations that get prosecuted can be very much on a pick and choose basis.

And we know which side picks and chooses.  I've never heard of anyone even arguing that it was wrong for a church organization to preach in favor of legislation that would advance "social justice" (confiscation and redistribution of wealth, i.e., Marxism).  Yet there's LEGALLY no difference between that and preaching in favor of legislation that would keep the definition of marriage to be one man/one woman. 

It's the liberal MO.  Like that meme, "When liberals disagree with a talk show host, they want him taken off the air.  When conservatives disagree with a talk show host, they change the station."

 
Lets go to the source.....what does the Constitution say about it?
 
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