Current State of WCBC

Baptist Renegade

Baptist Renegade

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Actually, I do not have the slightest clue as to the current state of West Coast Baptist College aside from it still being in the state of California and for that, they do have my sympathy! :cool:

Let's see if this may draw in some pot stirrers...
 
You asked for it, so here it is:

"CARY SCHMIDT, LONG-TIME LEADER AT WEST COAST BAPTIST COLLEGE, HAS BEEN A CHRISTIAN ROCKER SINCE HIS TEEN YEARS. Cary Schmidt took the pastorate of Emmanuel Baptist Church, Newington, CT, in 2012, after serving 22 years with Paul Chappell at Lancaster. He left on good terms and his material remained on Pastor Chappell’s web site last time I checked. Schmidt has transitioned Emmanuel Baptist from a fundamentalist stance to a contemporary evangelical one. . . .

"It is now clear that Cary Schmidt was a Christian rock enthusiast the entire time he was on staff at Lancaster Baptist Church and West Coast Baptist College. In 2023, Cary Schmidt joined Bryan Samms at the Church Advanced conference. Samms is at the forefront of the movement to transition churches away from the King James Bible. In October 2024, Emmanuel Baptist hosted Keith and Kristyn Getty and others for a 'Healthy Church Weekend.' The Gettys are ecumenical rock & rollers who associate closely with Roman Catholic musicians, such as Matt Maher, and are a bridge to the 'broader church' with all of its heresies and spiritual dangers."

Friday Church News, May 23, 2025 - Way of Life Literaure

Friday Church News- Way of Life Literaure
www.wayoflife.org

[Scroll down to 4th item on this post - dated May 23, 2025, so it's the latest poop]
 
I am friends with a minister who is currently pursuing a master's degree from West Coast Baptist College. He has told me that there is a growing number of people at Lancaster Baptist Church and West Coast Baptist College that embrace a contemporary philosophy of music and ministry.

It seems that the "old guard" at West Coast--namely John Goetsch, if I had to hazard a guess--are keeping the school moored to the pier of "independent, fundamental Baptist" circles. Goetsch, however, is approximately seventy-three years old. If his successor as Executive Vice-President is one of the millennials that has risen through the ranks there, the school will drift even more markedly from its old stances.
 
LOL, yeah, I knew that Cary Schmidt was a closeted "Christian Rocker" the whole time! He was on staff the while I was there in the 90s/early 2000s and yeah, he'd always try to sneak in some "Synthesized Drums" into his recordings and so forth. I was never close enough to him where he would invite me over to his house to check out his album/CD collection but I am sure he had much of the same stuff I had in MY secret album/CD collection! :ROFLMAO:

And truth be known, I am certain Paul Chappell didn't have a problem with it! Lancaster Baptist has always used material from Steve Green, Sandi Patti, Ray Boltz, Darlene Zschech, and so forth. Chappell was never hyper-critical of contemporary music and I never felt compelled to turn down whatever I was listening to when pulling into the Church property. Never into "Christian Metal" but often listened to Keith Green, Second Chapter of Acts, Maranatha Praise Band, and others. I do not know where they are these days but no doubt still exercise discernment as do I. Cloud mentions Keith and Kristyn Getty and although I'm certain they use them, I did not hear of them until after 2003 when I was wailing on my Stratocaster in a Church across town from LBC!:cool:

David Cloud represents the irrational, indefensible extreme of the traditional vs. contemporary argument and I am surprised after all these years that he has not yet realized that there is no real "terra firma" upon which he may effectively stand! I find it hard to believe that even he could agree with his own position but I would venture to say that he is still making a good living as a cheerleader to a certain select "hyper-separated" crowd who keep their wagons tightly circled! The rabid "Anti-Calvinists" have Leighton Flowers and the radical separatists have David Cloud! I have my 🍿!:ROFLMAO:

Cary Schmidt has been a pastor in Connecticut for over a decade now. I am not aware of his music or ministry directon but if he has found a good balance and is faithful to the scriptures then I praise the Lord for it! I am not a fan of darkened auditoriums but I'd go to see the Gettys in concert any time! We just did their song: "Christ our Hope in Life and Death" this last Sunday.

I have come across some of Cary Schmidt's material on YouTube and actually enjoyed and received a blessing from it. I just did a Google search on him and noticed that he uses the (GASP!) ESV in the books he has published so I guess he is likely not running in the same "IFB" crowd these days? I wonder if perhaps, he has embraced some "Superior" (Reformed) Theology as well? I may have to check and see if some of his material may be suitable for our adult Sunday School class or our small group studies. I wish Cary and his wife Dana nothing but the best these days!
 
TheOldJudge said:
I am friends with a minister who is currently pursuing a master's degree from West Coast Baptist College. He has told me that there is a growing number of people at Lancaster Baptist Church and West Coast Baptist College that embrace a contemporary philosophy of music and ministry.

It seems that the "old guard" at West Coast--namely John Goetsch, if I had to hazard a guess--are keeping the school moored to the pier of "independent, fundamental Baptist" circles. Goetsch, however, is approximately seventy-three years old. If his successor as Executive Vice-President is one of the millennials that has risen through the ranks there, the school will drift even more markedly from its old stances.
Click to expand...
I would say that Paul Chappel is pretty much "Old Guard" as well and things will remain "traditional" so long as he is at the helm. John Goetsch seemed quite genuine and grounded when I knew him. Years ago, he wrote an anti-Calvinist article which was quite flawed and easily refuted, but consistent with the mindset of those in their IFB crowd. He and Chappell always seemed to be a "Kinder, Gentler" version of IFB from the radical Ruckmanism and Hylesism I had been involved with in San Diego back in the 80s. Believe it or not, I was likely a couple of notches to the "right" of both Chappell and Goetsch. Paul Chappell thought I was a "rabble rouser" and I guess he was right!:ROFLMAO:

Matthew Chappell seems to definitely be going the "Contemporary" direction based upon what I see of his Church in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. I am no fan of the "dressed down" style, the Andy Stanley personna, and the "Ted Talk" delivery style but if a Church is consistent in the word and doctrine, this what truly matters. I would much rather they were influenced by the likes of Voddie Baucham or Paul Washer than Andy Stanley, Steven Furtick, and the Hillsong crowd! Enough of trying to be "relevant" and feel free to tell them I say so!

But yes, I would say that Matthew Chappell would be indicative of the future direction of WCBC - for better, for worse.
 
illinoisguy said:
The Gettys are ecumenical rock & rollers who associate closely with Roman Catholic musicians, such as Matt Maher, and are a bridge to the 'broader church' with all of its heresies and spiritual dangers."
Click to expand...

Or, as Cloud was quoted in a past thread that blew up about Bawb Jones, "Getty-Townend are out-and-out contemporary rockers with no boundaries either in musical styles or associations." (Source)

If that leads you to picture Keith and Kristyn Getty with KISS makeup, pyrotechnics, and biting the heads off bats, you can be forgiven your surprise to find out they compose theologically sophisticated, evangelical Protestant modern hymns in a traditional Irish folk style. My church hosted a concert of theirs about 10 years ago. Our choir, of which I was a member, sang with them. Nary an out-and-out contemporary rocker in sight.
 
Ransom said:
Or, as Cloud was quoted in a past thread that blew up about Bawb Jones, "Getty-Townend are out-and-out contemporary rockers with no boundaries either in musical styles or associations." (Source)

If that leads you to picture Keith and Kristyn Getty with KISS makeup, pyrotechnics, and biting the heads off bats, you can be forgiven your surprise to find out they compose theologically sophisticated, evangelical Protestant modern hymns in a traditional Irish folk style. My church hosted a concert of theirs about 10 years ago. Our choir, of which I was a member, sang with them. Nary an out-and-out contemporary rocker in sight.
Click to expand...
Nice post. I googled them and found myself fully listening to several of their concerts while working.
 
TheOldJudge said:
I am friends with a minister who is currently pursuing a master's degree from West Coast Baptist College. He has told me that there is a growing number of people at Lancaster Baptist Church and West Coast Baptist College that embrace a contemporary philosophy of music and ministry.

It seems that the "old guard" at West Coast--namely John Goetsch, if I had to hazard a guess--are keeping the school moored to the pier of "independent, fundamental Baptist" circles. Goetsch, however, is approximately seventy-three years old. If his successor as Executive Vice-President is one of the millennials that has risen through the ranks there, the school will drift even more markedly from its old stances.
Click to expand...
If the old guard considers the Getty’s rockers, they can’t go soon enough if the school wants to stay open any length of time. I know the extreme IFB’s of the Hyles era were ignorant, I honestly thought the current, much smaller contingent, had lost most of the lunacy.
 
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illinoisguy said:
You asked for it, so here it is:

"CARY SCHMIDT, LONG-TIME LEADER AT WEST COAST BAPTIST COLLEGE, HAS BEEN A CHRISTIAN ROCKER SINCE HIS TEEN YEARS. Cary Schmidt took the pastorate of Emmanuel Baptist Church, Newington, CT, in 2012, after serving 22 years with Paul Chappell at Lancaster. He left on good terms and his material remained on Pastor Chappell’s web site last time I checked. Schmidt has transitioned Emmanuel Baptist from a fundamentalist stance to a contemporary evangelical one. . . .

"It is now clear that Cary Schmidt was a Christian rock enthusiast the entire time he was on staff at Lancaster Baptist Church and West Coast Baptist College. In 2023, Cary Schmidt joined Bryan Samms at the Church Advanced conference. Samms is at the forefront of the movement to transition churches away from the King James Bible. In October 2024, Emmanuel Baptist hosted Keith and Kristyn Getty and others for a 'Healthy Church Weekend.' The Gettys are ecumenical rock & rollers who associate closely with Roman Catholic musicians, such as Matt Maher, and are a bridge to the 'broader church' with all of its heresies and spiritual dangers."

Friday Church News, May 23, 2025 - Way of Life Literaure

Friday Church News- Way of Life Literaure
www.wayoflife.org

[Scroll down to 4th item on this post - dated May 23, 2025, so it's the latest poop]
Click to expand...
UGH!!! David Cloud...what a twerp! He doesn't like anyone or anything. He's so full of himself that he kisses his own bottom!
 
Ransom said:
Or, as Cloud was quoted in a past thread that blew up about Bawb Jones, "Getty-Townend are out-and-out contemporary rockers with no boundaries either in musical styles or associations." (Source)

If that leads you to picture Keith and Kristyn Getty with KISS makeup, pyrotechnics, and biting the heads off bats, you can be forgiven your surprise to find out they compose theologically sophisticated, evangelical Protestant modern hymns in a traditional Irish folk style. My church hosted a concert of theirs about 10 years ago. Our choir, of which I was a member, sang with them. Nary an out-and-out contemporary rocker in sight.
Click to expand...
I think we all know that Cloud is a butthead!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
If the old guard considers the Getty’s rockers, they can’t go soon enough if the school wants to stay open any length of time. I know the IFB’s of the Hyles era were ignorant, I honestly thought the current, much smaller contingent, had lost most of the lunacy.
Click to expand...
I can speak emphatically that the "Old Guard" at LBC/WCBC would certainly not regard the Gettys as "Rockers!" Back in the 90s/early 2000s when I was there, they regularly used compositions from Steve Green, Sandi Patti, Don Moen, Rich Mullins, Ray Boltz, and Twila Paris among others. They may have "Sanctified" it somewhat by minimizing any bouncy, syncopated back-beat but it was overtly used just the same and you can bet that they would not have done so had Paul Chappell not approved of it. Of course, this is not good enough for David Cloud but I do not believe he would approve of anything newer than the mid 20th century and as I have already said, I really do not think that even he knows what the actual "staaaaaandeeeeeeeeerd" is except that if it is new, it must be bad!

I seriously doubt they would have anyone like the Gettys playing a concert at LBC/WCBC due to the typical IFB "Degrees of Separation" and so forth. I am also guessing they still would not allow any drum sets* or "electric geetars" on their platform but I would confidently bet that whoever succeeds Paul Chappell will likely allow them. I would bet that the current regime would not raise a stink over LBC members seeing the Gettys in concert somewhere else nor would I be surprised if the "Man" himself (Paul Chappell) has gone to see them a time or two. :cool:

*Just to clarify, LBC does have drums in the orchestra but (last I saw) they are all separated out and played individually (one guy on tympani, one on a snare drum, one on cymbals, Etc.) which has been acceptable for years because symphony orchestras are not of the devil - even if they are playing secular pop standards!
 
Baptist Renegade said:
LOL, yeah, I knew that Cary Schmidt was a closeted "Christian Rocker" the whole time! He was on staff the while I was there in the 90s/early 2000s and yeah, he'd always try to sneak in some "Synthesized Drums" into his recordings and so forth. I was never close enough to him where he would invite me over to his house to check out his album/CD collection but I am sure he had much of the same stuff I had in MY secret album/CD collection! :ROFLMAO:

And truth be known, I am certain Paul Chappell didn't have a problem with it! Lancaster Baptist has always used material from Steve Green, Sandi Patti, Ray Boltz, Darlene Zschech, and so forth. Chappell was never hyper-critical of contemporary music and I never felt compelled to turn down whatever I was listening to when pulling into the Church property. Never into "Christian Metal" but often listened to Keith Green, Second Chapter of Acts, Maranatha Praise Band, and others. I do not know where they are these days but no doubt still exercise discernment as do I. Cloud mentions Keith and Kristyn Getty and although I'm certain they use them, I did not hear of them until after 2003 when I was wailing on my Stratocaster in a Church across town from LBC!:cool:

David Cloud represents the irrational, indefensible extreme of the traditional vs. contemporary argument and I am surprised after all these years that he has not yet realized that there is no real "terra firma" upon which he may effectively stand! I find it hard to believe that even he could agree with his own position but I would venture to say that he is still making a good living as a cheerleader to a certain select "hyper-separated" crowd who keep their wagons tightly circled! The rabid "Anti-Calvinists" have Leighton Flowers and the radical separatists have David Cloud! I have my 🍿!:ROFLMAO:

Cary Schmidt has been a pastor in Connecticut for over a decade now. I am not aware of his music or ministry directon but if he has found a good balance and is faithful to the scriptures then I praise the Lord for it! I am not a fan of darkened auditoriums but I'd go to see the Gettys in concert any time! We just did their song: "Christ our Hope in Life and Death" this last Sunday.

I have come across some of Cary Schmidt's material on YouTube and actually enjoyed and received a blessing from it. I just did a Google search on him and noticed that he uses the (GASP!) ESV in the books he has published so I guess he is likely not running in the same "IFB" crowd these days? I wonder if perhaps, he has embraced some "Superior" (Reformed) Theology as well? I may have to check and see if some of his material may be suitable for our adult Sunday School class or our small group studies. I wish Cary and his wife Dana nothing but the best these days!
Click to expand...

So, effectively, you are saying that David Cloud is correct - Cary Schmidt IS a Christian Rocker, and HAS changed the church he became the pastor of, moving them away from their previous foundation.
 
Walt said:
So, effectively, you are saying that David Cloud is correct - Cary Schmidt IS a Christian Rocker, and HAS changed the church he became the pastor of, moving them away from their previous foundation.
Click to expand...
From what I can tell, he is not that far removed from what he was when he was the Youth Pastor and Music Director at Lancaster Baptist in the 90s! He has always implemented material of "Contemporary" artists and composers right along with what would be regarded as being more "traditional." They were somewhat averse to the more "Hillbilly" sort of stuff (Aside from their "old Fashioned Sunday") but this was more of a preferential thing and reflective of a congregation that preferred a more "Polished" and "Educated" sort of vibe but I digress...

The term "Christian Rocker" was a tongue-in-cheek statement mimicking the words of David Cloud just so you know (or ought to know). Schmidt obviously likes a more contemporary style and his choice of material as well as his own compositions reflect this. Before LBC had a full orchestra, Schmidt relied upon MiDi compositions that were used for choirs and ensembles and, at times, the back-beat (although subdued) seemed quite obvious to me! His current Church in Connecticut has a modest drum set, bass guitar, acoustic guitar, keyboards, and piano. Aside from this, his church auditorium looks pretty much traditional and not "Darkened" as someone else has suggested. I have not heard any of their music but seeing that the drums are not in some plexiglass "cage," I would think that whoever is playing them knows how to do so properly without blowing everyone out of the auditorium? If I were pastoring a Church somewhere, I believe the auditorium and platform of my church would look quite similar. In other words, I approve 100%! Cary Schmidt is no Jack Trieber or Paul Chappell but he is certainly no Stephen Furtick or Andy Stanley either! Perhaps a more pale (and Arminian) version of Voddie Baucham?:ROFLMAO:

I have no Idea what the Church was before Cary Schmidt took over as pastor or was this a Church that he had started? I really do not know nor do I know from what "foundation" it had been previously. If you are talking about the typical IFB foundation of extra-biblical "STAAAAAAAANDEEEEEEEERDS" of which "Cloudy David Cloud" loves to tout, I would say that such a church would have no solid foundational footing that is defensible with the authority and sufficiency of scripture so I would say GOOD FOR HIM for moving this church to a more solid, stable footing upon which one may confidently stand!

I do not want to sound too much like a Cary Schmidt apologist here so I will make this criticism. Based upon what I have heard in his study on the Book of Romans, he seems to still be an ardent "Free-Willy" so this is a point where he and I would strongly disagree! Perhaps he will come around to a more "Superior Theology" if he continues to read and study the ESV he uses in the books he has authored?:cool:
 
Bob Jones VI said:
https://gettymusicworshipconference.com/

Getty's sponsor this conference.. And look, one of the speakers smokes a pipe. I'll bet they have some secret devil worship between speakers.
View attachment 7186
Click to expand...
And, oh....one of the OTHER deadly sins the IFB churches like to employ to make themselves look more spiritual than they truly are...his hair is over his ears and on his collar...and for Pete's sake...he has a bushy beard! LOL Pharisaical IFB mentality is truly a mental problem.
 
From the Wikipedia article on Malcolm Guite...

Guite has described himself in interviews as "a poet, priest, rock & roller, in any order you like, really. I'm the same person in all three."

From an IFBX POV, he's a total heritic to be burned at the stake.
 
Bob Jones VI said:
https://gettymusicworshipconference.com/

Getty's sponsor this conference.. And look, one of the speakers smokes a pipe. I'll bet they have some secret devil worship between speakers.
View attachment 7186
Click to expand...
Never mind this, they have CALVINISTS on their billing!

I wonder if I could get my church to sponsor me for this conference? My responsibilities are not so much with the music ministry these days but I'm sure there would be some good information!

Plus I need to get into town and pay a visit to my daughter - and bring my geetar and hit up some of the songwriter circles! :cool:
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Never mind this, they have CALVINISTS on their billing!

I wonder if I could get my church to sponsor me for this conference? My responsibilities are not so much with the music ministry these days but I'm sure there would be some good information!

Plus I need to get into town and pay a visit to my daughter - and bring my geetar and hit up some of the songwriter circles! :cool:
Click to expand...
City Alight is there. They are producing some excellent music. Their philosophy is to write hymns that are singable and theologically rich.
 
AverageJoe said:
And, oh....one of the OTHER deadly sins the IFB churches like to employ to make themselves look more spiritual than they truly are...his hair is over his ears and on his collar...and for Pete's sake...he has a bushy beard! LOL Pharisaical IFB mentality is truly a mental problem.
Click to expand...
I have a sneaky suspicion about you. Your hair probably is touching your ears.
 
abcaines said:
From the Wikipedia article on Malcolm Guite...

Guite has described himself in interviews as "a poet, priest, rock & roller, in any order you like, really. I'm the same person in all three."

From an IFBX POV, he's a total heritic to be burned at the stake.
Click to expand...

And he writes poetry that isn't just doggerel with rhyming couplets. Guite (rhymes with "kite") is a good poet. He's written two devotional books, one for Lent and one for Advent, featuring selections of classic and modern poetry, as well as some of his own.
 
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