David Cloud takes on a family of musicians

[Walt]

I was not in the market for new music, but this attack from the like of David Cloud makes me want to order a CD or two. We may want to carry it in our church book store as well and I may give a few out as gifts.

David Cloud needs to worry about his own dying ministry and leave others alone.

He has a right to his own opinions, and I respect his right to them.

Go ahead and support them if you don't agree.

I really don't know the people involved, so I don't have any preferences in the matter.

I do note that David Cloud has, in the past, tended to be right in his warnings.

 

[Walt]

"Big Enough" is one of my favorite Southern Gospel songs, but since David Cloud is the 'expert' and I'm just a lowly, uninformed worm, I guess I'll have to remove it, along with about 200 other Southern Gospel songs, from my iPod Nano.  :  :  :

imnsho, the guy is a loon

You have the same standing before God as any other child of God... David Cloud is not a pope to mandate others' behavior; he is writing his opinion and warning about the changes he sees taking place.

 

[Walt]

Who made this clown the pope who gets to determine which music is fundamental or not?

Every fundamental school and micro-movement in fundamentalism has developed their own parameters.

BJU fought Pensacola over their music. Factions in BJU fought against Patch the Pirate. Now profs at Central Theological Seminary are aligned with a fundy-turned Southern Baptist to reclaim the Southern Baptists.

The fundamentalist militancy is so splintered over the music issue that it is impossible to find a musical group acceptable to all fundamentalists.

An accurate assessment... music is one area that people get quite upset over.

 

[FSSL]

Is there a list of "non-essentials"?

If there was a list of "non-essentials," then they probably are not "non-essentials."

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

We've got trouble right here in River City.  Trouble begins with T which rhymes with P and that stands for pool!

Just went to that as a public high school musical two weeks ago. Guess I'm turing in my Fundy card!

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/a-plea-to-the-clark-family.php

...so the music the Clark family sings is wrong essentially b/c it is also sung by SGM groups?

No, his argument is that they are using songs CREATED by CCM groups.  This makes the KJV example not true.

So his argument does cut out Because He lives and anything by Gaither. Fanny Crosby and her husband were separated for decades. She church hopped. Where do we draw the line? Do we sing Silent Night... written by a Catholic priest?

 

[Tim]

https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/feedback-from-plea-to-clark-family.php

I am tempted to respond to Cloud in a level headed, loving, fashion just to prove at leave "one" person who doesn't agree with his article has/can respond without hate or attack. Since he states, "The responses themselves are a loud warning to the effect of worldly music on the spiritual thinking of people. "

 

[FSSL]

I am tempted to respond to Cloud in a level headed, loving, fashion...

Don't waste your efforts. Remember the parable of the lion and the skunk? The lion was convinced he could kill the skunk with one swipe. The lion was warned that, while he could kill the skunk, he would come home with a bad stink.

 

[Tim]

I am tempted to respond to Cloud in a level headed, loving, fashion...

Don't waste your efforts. Remember the parable of the lion and the skunk? The lion was convinced he could kill the skunk with one swipe. The lion was warned that, while he could kill the skunk, he would come home with a bad stink.

I have been pondering writing him a message. But, I keep realizing that ultimately this would be a debate between semi-Pelagianism and Augustinianism that requires more than just a casual written observation to him in regards to the end results of his reasoning. In short. He possesses a totally different mindset that would need to be changed/renewed to ultimately see another mind set. He would see, and publicly admits, any view contradicting his own actions as a hindrance and carnal. He seeks to set himself up as a god through his own judgemental actions and less as a man in 100% need of God. If he could, and should, take a step back and recognize that ultimately God is in control, not him or his version of Biblical truth, and let God take control through teaching truth and not man-made standards set to Bible passages.

I guess what I am saying is that only God could expose him to his error. I'll say a prayer for him.

 

[prophet]

https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/a-plea-to-the-clark-family.php

What someone does with a song that I happen to sing too has no bearing on whether I should sing it. Elvis sang How Great Thou Art. Does that mean I can't? etc. etc.

It's the doctrine of Secondary Singspiration

I literally lol'ed

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

 

[FSSL]

... He possesses a totally different mindset ...

He lives in Port Huron, Michigan. He does not know/understand the South and their culture. It is a preference issue and you will never win a Scriptural debate with someone committed to a tradition.

The ONLY way people are won over is when they actually befriend the people they are against. When that happens, they see the motivations, spirit and the ministries being accomplished among those with various music styles.

I have seen worship theologians come and go in the last 30 years. They have conflicting preferences and have established themselves to be the standard. When one of their friends edges past their preferences, they respond in one of two ways: 1) demonize them (ala Cloud); 2) become inconsistent from your own teaching.

 

[fishinnut]

Thanks to his tripe I became a fan for this family. Not my flavor but took me back in time to when I enjoyed music like that................at church even.

Cloud is wacked IMHO & he'd really flip out with at my favorite church band.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3X2JfigGHA

 

[Recovering IFB]

The only family. Cloud should have gone against was Hansen. But that was 20 years ago....
https://youtu.be/NHozn0YXAeE

 

[subllibrm]

The only family. Cloud should have gone against was Hansen. But that was 20 years ago....
https://youtu.be/NHozn0YXAeE

Hey, that was our offertory Sunday!

 

[Tim]

... He possesses a totally different mindset ...

He lives in Port Huron, Michigan. He does not know/understand the South and their culture. It is a preference issue and you will never win a Scriptural debate with someone committed to a tradition.

The ONLY way people are won over is when they actually befriend the people they are against. When that happens, they see the motivations, spirit and the ministries being accomplished among those with various music styles.

I have seen worship theologians come and go in the last 30 years. They have conflicting preferences and have established themselves to be the standard. When one of their friends edges past their preferences, they respond in one of two ways: 1) demonize them (ala Cloud); 2) become inconsistent from your own teaching.

Much agreed that tradition pays a huge roll. But, beyond that we are all under God's Grace and David Cloud, you, myself all stand equal in our need for God's Grace. I believe when one recognizes deep down that all humans struggle equally on that core level a much greater grace toward each other will develop. Not that it diminishes the striving for righteousness in our lives - but should cement the difference between self-righteousness and true righteousness. Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control become common place in our lives as believers saved by grace. But, when you add self to the mixture - even in the simple belief that your own mind independent from God comes to the decision for Christ - you are opening the flood gates for self-righteous and make yourself almost better than God. God makes it abundantly clear that salvation is a gift, not of works. "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

Salvation is a Gift. I have come to believe that with no reserve. And until David Cloud sees the graciousness of God toward his own sinful flesh (a flesh that ultimately deserves judgement) he will fail to see all others around him under this same situation.

So. Yes. If these people were part of his day to day life he probably would reserve less judgement. But. He should recognize they are sinners saved by grace. He should recognize that unless the Bible explicitly forbids an action, and the sin from his own eye is removed, he should reserve judgement. He would be best to teach what the Bible says and remember that we are all capable to repent from any sins we recognize. Again - seeking to be a god on earth. Does he not see the role of the Holy Spirit?