Dealing with FBCH/HAC rumors

[Tarheel Baptist]

Absolutely I'm a critic. I hear supporters of HAC talking about blatant heresy being preached. I hear those supporters celebrating the worship of man. I hear those same supporters discussing how important appearances are above all things. (Numbers, people! Numbers!) I hear the supporters laugh at the expense of others, joke about gluttony, and wink knowingly at pride.

I don't have to investigate. These actions are openly celebrated. These actions are used as the definition of what makes a HACer a HACer. Might as well say I haven't closely investigated the ideology at the local Pride parade. In both cases, the ideology is obvious;

And when those who have bought into the system are forced to acknowledge it...they label others as scorners.

You are tossing everyone into the same boat.  Have you heard anyone talk about coming to Christ through the ministries of FBCH?  Yes, you have.  Have you heard about anyone graduating from HAC and serving God faithfully at a church or on the mission field?  Yes, you have.  Have you heard about any bus kids from Chicago coming to Christ and living for him today because of the bus ministry of FBCH?  Yes, you have,  Have you heard about FBCH helping anyone in need?  Yes, you have.

You NEVER mention any of these.  You take the negative information that you have heard (whether it is accurate or not) and continue to talk down about everything and everyone that has ever been associated with HAC or FBCH. 

Yes, you are a scorner.  Yes, you are a critic.  Yes, I am laughing at your expense right now!

Would you say he's a Christlike scorner-critic?
According to him, that's important to him. 

 

[RAIDER]

Would you say he's a Christlike scorner-critic?
According to him, that's important to him. 

I would say he is more of a Sanballat or Tobiah.  I am thankful that he does not have a pastor.  Can you imagine?

 

[Teri in NC]

[quote author=RAIDER]You are tossing everyone into the same boat.  Have you heard anyone talk about coming to Christ through the ministries of FBCH?  Yes, you have.  Have you heard about anyone graduating from HAC and serving God faithfully at a church or on the mission field?  Yes, you have.  Have you heard about any bus kids from Chicago coming to Christ and living for him today because of the bus ministry of FBCH?  Yes, you have,  Have you heard about FBCH helping anyone in need?  Yes, you have.

You NEVER mention any of these.  You take the negative information that you have heard (whether it is accurate or not) and continue to talk down about everything and everyone that has ever been associated with HAC or FBCH. 

And those are all well and good and should be heralded...

...so why do you spend so much time and effort celebrating the negatives and ignoring the positives?
[/quote]

rat,
You have been in that cheese again, haven't you? 

Psssst. there is poison in there.

 

[16KJV11]

In my best Horshack voice concerning this thread "I'm so confused ".

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I'm confused about this thread as well. I view it as both RAIDER and rsc2a are correct.

Close by where I live, there is a manure farm. Manure is collected and heaped in piles and gets turned into fertilizer. This farm also farms vegetables and they are known for the highest quality in the area, in size and taste.

People need not go to the farm to realize that it stinks. Bad. Really bad. Anybody who isn't a local would never stop by to see the vegetables. And those people are right: this farm is a putrid place and dirty. On the other hand, those who are locals have seen beyond the nastiness, plug their noses and are able to enjoy fantastic veggies grown from the same grounds.

One need not have attended Hammond to see that FBC/HAC stinks to the high heavens. Putrid, disgusting and at times, downright evil. But there are some who have attended there that have made relationships, experienced love and seen God work despite the hot mess that is all things Hyles. In essence, both sides are correct in their observation, even though their perspectives are pretty much contrary. Some people choose to enjoy the "veggies" and for others, that isn't worth the stink to them. So I see no wrong in pointing out the nastiness nor do I see it harmful to point out the good things.

Yes, it is OK to criticize and it is OK to remember good things and people.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I'm confused about this thread as well. I view it as both RAIDER and rsc2a are correct.

Close by where I live, there is a manure farm. Manure is collected and heaped in piles and gets turned into fertilizer. This farm also farms vegetables and they are known for the highest quality in the area, in size and taste.

People need not go to the farm to realize that it stinks. Bad. Really bad. Anybody who isn't a local would never stop by to see the vegetables. And those people are right: this farm is a putrid place and dirty. On the other hand, those who are locals have seen beyond the nastiness, plug their noses and are able to enjoy fantastic veggies grown from the same grounds.

One need not have attended Hammond to see that FBC/HAC stinks to the high heavens. Putrid, disgusting and at times, downright evil. But there are some who have attended there that have made relationships, experienced love and seen God work despite the hot mess that is all things Hyles. In essence, both sides are correct in their observation, even though their perspectives are pretty much contrary. Some people choose to enjoy the "veggies" and for others, that isn't worth the stink to them. So I see no wrong in pointing out the nastiness nor do I see it harmful to point out the good things.

Yes, it is OK to criticize and it is OK to remember good things and people.

This is a perfect analogy for FBCH.

It's hard to see anything good when you have had to crawl around the piles for decades all the while pretending that they weren't there.

 

[rsc2a]

Absolutely. What I don't understand is why people keep confusing the manure for vegetables and, worse yet, insist on selling it as such.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Absolutely. What I don't understand is why people keep confusing the manure for vegetables and, worse yet, insist on selling it as such.

And this is a legitimate view.

Perhaps they were "sold" manure believing it to be "veggies". They unknowingly bought the lie and don't even realize it.

Then there are some who created the deception and continue to sell it as well.

 

[16KJV11]

I'm confused about this thread as well. I view it as both RAIDER and rsc2a are correct.

Close by where I live, there is a manure farm. Manure is collected and heaped in piles and gets turned into fertilizer. This farm also farms vegetables and they are known for the highest quality in the area, in size and taste.

People need not go to the farm to realize that it stinks. Bad. Really bad. Anybody who isn't a local would never stop by to see the vegetables. And those people are right: this farm is a putrid place and dirty. On the other hand, those who are locals have seen beyond the nastiness, plug their noses and are able to enjoy fantastic veggies grown from the same grounds.

One need not have attended Hammond to see that FBC/HAC stinks to the high heavens. Putrid, disgusting and at times, downright evil. But there are some who have attended there that have made relationships, experienced love and seen God work despite the hot mess that is all things Hyles. In essence, both sides are correct in their observation, even though their perspectives are pretty much contrary. Some people choose to enjoy the "veggies" and for others, that isn't worth the stink to them. So I see no wrong in pointing out the nastiness nor do I see it harmful to point out the good things.

Yes, it is OK to criticize and it is OK to remember good things and people.

This is a perfect analogy for FBCH.

It's hard to see anything good when you have had to crawl around the piles for decades all the while pretending that they weren't there.

But you smelled it, crawled around in it and stayed in it?

 

[RAIDER]

I'm confused about this thread as well. I view it as both RAIDER and rsc2a are correct.

Close by where I live, there is a manure farm. Manure is collected and heaped in piles and gets turned into fertilizer. This farm also farms vegetables and they are known for the highest quality in the area, in size and taste.

People need not go to the farm to realize that it stinks. Bad. Really bad. Anybody who isn't a local would never stop by to see the vegetables. And those people are right: this farm is a putrid place and dirty. On the other hand, those who are locals have seen beyond the nastiness, plug their noses and are able to enjoy fantastic veggies grown from the same grounds.

One need not have attended Hammond to see that FBC/HAC stinks to the high heavens. Putrid, disgusting and at times, downright evil. But there are some who have attended there that have made relationships, experienced love and seen God work despite the hot mess that is all things Hyles. In essence, both sides are correct in their observation, even though their perspectives are pretty much contrary. Some people choose to enjoy the "veggies" and for others, that isn't worth the stink to them. So I see no wrong in pointing out the nastiness nor do I see it harmful to point out the good things.

Yes, it is OK to criticize and it is OK to remember good things and people.

This is a perfect analogy for FBCH.

It's hard to see anything good when you have had to crawl around the piles for decades all the while pretending that they weren't there.

But you smelled it, crawled around in it and stayed in it?

B-I-N-G-O!!

 

[bgwilkinson]

I'm confused about this thread as well. I view it as both RAIDER and rsc2a are correct.

Close by where I live, there is a manure farm. Manure is collected and heaped in piles and gets turned into fertilizer. This farm also farms vegetables and they are known for the highest quality in the area, in size and taste.

People need not go to the farm to realize that it stinks. Bad. Really bad. Anybody who isn't a local would never stop by to see the vegetables. And those people are right: this farm is a putrid place and dirty. On the other hand, those who are locals have seen beyond the nastiness, plug their noses and are able to enjoy fantastic veggies grown from the same grounds.

One need not have attended Hammond to see that FBC/HAC stinks to the high heavens. Putrid, disgusting and at times, downright evil. But there are some who have attended there that have made relationships, experienced love and seen God work despite the hot mess that is all things Hyles. In essence, both sides are correct in their observation, even though their perspectives are pretty much contrary. Some people choose to enjoy the "veggies" and for others, that isn't worth the stink to them. So I see no wrong in pointing out the nastiness nor do I see it harmful to point out the good things.

Yes, it is OK to criticize and it is OK to remember good things and people.

This is a perfect analogy for FBCH.

It's hard to see anything good when you have had to crawl around the piles for decades all the while pretending that they weren't there.

But you smelled it, crawled around in it and stayed in it?

Keeping the analogy going, when you live in it day after day for decades you no longer notice the stink.
Only the outsiders would notice.

 

[Walt]

Absolutely I'm a critic. I hear supporters of HAC talking about blatant heresy being preached. I hear those supporters celebrating the worship of man. I hear those same supporters discussing how important appearances are above all things. (Numbers, people! Numbers!) I hear the supporters laugh at the expense of others, joke about gluttony, and wink knowingly at pride.

I don't have to investigate. These actions are openly celebrated. These actions are used as the definition of what makes a HACer a HACer. Might as well say I haven't closely investigated the ideology at the local Pride parade. In both cases, the ideology is obvious;

And when those who have bought into the system are forced to acknowledge it...they label others as scorners.

You are tossing everyone into the same boat.  Have you heard anyone talk about coming to Christ through the ministries of FBCH?  Yes, you have.  Have you heard about anyone graduating from HAC and serving God faithfully at a church or on the mission field?  Yes, you have.  Have you heard about any bus kids from Chicago coming to Christ and living for him today because of the bus ministry of FBCH?  Yes, you have,  Have you heard about FBCH helping anyone in need?  Yes, you have.

You NEVER mention any of these.  You take the negative information that you have heard (whether it is accurate or not) and continue to talk down about everything and everyone that has ever been associated with HAC or FBCH. 

I'm afraid that this logic is faulty -- just because there are some good results, that does NOT mean that God is blessing what we do.  Sometimes, He is good to bless us in spite of our sin.

This seems to be a common problem among the supporters of Jack Hyles and HAC-dom in general: They point to the results as if results trump every other argument or are all that matter. May I point out that, in Scripture, Jonah saw probably the greatest number of people saved ever, while Noah had none saved? However, God honored Noah for his faithfulness over the big impressive numbers of Jonah (Noah is mentioned in Hebrews 11).

There may be detractors that maintain that nothing good came out of FBCH or HAC, but such people are probably very few in number.  I know some great men who graduated from HAC -- but I know other graduates who absorbed all the worst sides of JH and HAC.

 

[prophet]

Would you say he's a Christlike scorner-critic?
According to him, that's important to him. 

I would say he is more of a Sanballat or Tobiah.  I am thankful that he does not have a pastor.  Can you imagine?

You mean the completely fabricated church-king "pastor"?

Haklo

 

[CrAyCrAyJaY]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not getting this  but how do you put homely and beautiful together? Logically you can't, it's like saying I'm fat and skinny, I'm either fat or skinny but I can't be both.
Also how does this 

"I would say he is more of a Sanballat or Tobiah.  I am thankful that he does not have a pastor.  Can you imagine?
Glorify and honor Christ? Just wondering, because, honestly I can't see
How it does.

First of all it was never said that the girl was ugly.  You fabricated that.  it was said that she was "homely".

home·ly
ˈhōmlē/
adjective
adjective: homely; comparative adjective: homelier; superlative adjective: homeliest

    1.
    North American
    (of a person) unattractive in appearance.
    synonyms: unattractive, plain, unprepossessing, unlovely, ill-favored, ugly; informalnot much to look at
    "she's rather homely"

This girl was absolutely beautiful, but yet homely.  Do you feel better?

""

 

[RAIDER]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not getting this  but how do you put homely and beautiful together? Logically you can't, it's like saying I'm fat and skinny, I'm either fat or skinny but I can't be both.
Also how does this 

"I would say he is more of a Sanballat or Tobiah.  I am thankful that he does not have a pastor.  Can you imagine?
Glorify and honor Christ? Just wondering, because, honestly I can't see
How it does.

First of all it was never said that the girl was ugly.  You fabricated that.  it was said that she was "homely".

home·ly
ˈhōmlē/
adjective
adjective: homely; comparative adjective: homelier; superlative adjective: homeliest

    1.
    North American
    (of a person) unattractive in appearance.
    synonyms: unattractive, plain, unprepossessing, unlovely, ill-favored, ugly; informalnot much to look at
    "she's rather homely"

This girl was absolutely beautiful, but yet homely.  Do you feel better?

""

Three questions:

1)  What is the story behind your name?
2)  What did you just post?
3)  What is your daily Binaca consumption?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

2)  What did you just post?

""

(You stinkin' HACker!)

 

[RAIDER]

2)  What did you just post?

""

(You stinkin' HACker!)

Now that you point it out I can see it.  On my small screen It looked like some small letters. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

2)  What did you just post?

""

(You stinkin' HACker!)

Now that you point it out I can see it.  On my small screen It looked like some small letters. 

Well if you'd just take the horned-rim glasses out of your shirt pocket and put them on before reading...

 

[RAIDER]

2)  What did you just post?

""

(You stinkin' HACker!)

Now that you point it out I can see it.  On my small screen It looked like some small letters. 

Well if you'd just take the horned-rim glasses out of your shirt pocket and put them on before reading...

Hey, my wife is the only person alive that has seen me without those glasses.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

2)  What did you just post?

""

(You stinkin' HACker!)

Now that you point it out I can see it.  On my small screen It looked like some small letters. 

Well if you'd just take the horned-rim glasses out of your shirt pocket and put them on before reading...

Hey, my wife is the only person alive that has seen me without those glasses.

Prompt a YMBAHI addition. Stay tuned...