Death Penalty?

[BandGuy]

I have been for most of my life, staunchly pro-death penalty.  It is, however, stories like the one linked below and what happened in West Memphis which have severely shaken my faith in the justice system and made it to where I am changing my mind on the issue:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/louisiana-glenn-ford-freed/index.html

How many more are there who didn't leave death row alive because of a corrupt system which plays politics, and covers up the truth.  The system is corrupt and unaccountable and as long as this is true, I don't think we should trust the system with the ultimate price.  Your thoughts?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I was pro-death penalty until I realized that God wasn't. (Cain, Moses, Joab, David, etc.)

 

[ChuckBob]

I'm in the system and the death penalty as it is practiced in the U.S is sick joke. It's not worth the money it takes to execute someone 15-20 years after they commit the crime.

One of the attorneys in my office was recently appointed to a death penalty case in a county 100 miles away. There was no attorney between here and there that is certified to defend a death penalty case. Our county has two. He is required to file almost 300 motions prior to trial. He's had to almost shut his practice down to do the job. One of our other lawyers is running for Chancery Court Judge. Myself and our rookie are trying to help take some of the load off of both of them but I've got a full case load at the moment.

would just as soon they do away with it all together. It's just too expensive.


ChuckBob

 

[Izdaari]

At least generally against, for the same reasons others have stated.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I had a typical state university (translate--liberal ) education.  One of my philosophy profs had done some dissertation work in the area of criminal justice, particularly the death penalty.  I had been raised in a fairly socially conservative home (though not patently ethically Christian by any stretch), and believed the death penalty to be an acceptable form of punishment in specific situations.  That college prof converted me to the liberal view for a time that stretched briefly beyond my years after graduation.  His point was that in so far as the death penalty being a deterrent, it was ineffective in most cases.  He made this claim under the auspices that a person who killed typically fell into three categories.  They either were 1) insane, and therefore logic would not enter their mind, 2) blinded by passion (adultery, hate, etc) and they would only be acting in the moment out of irrational emotionalism, and 3) calculating the benefits of the crime (in their estimation of "benefits") and given the potential punishment in the event they would be caught (like, say, robbing a bank and killing the guard) they were comfortable with accepting the possibility of their reward OR their punishment.

None of that is Biblical rationale, and in the end, I reversed field and believe that the death penalty is acceptable and even preferable in some cases (political error and inefficiency notwithstanding).

 

[christundivided]

I don't judge the "death penalty" by the "flawed system" that practices it.

If I did.... I would run from Christianity all together.

 

[christundivided]

I was pro-death penalty until I realized that God wasn't. (Cain, Moses, Joab, David, etc.)

Oh... like Onan, the prophet in 1 Kings 13, Samson, King Saul, King Ahab, King Herod and MANY others?

 

[BandGuy]

I don't judge the "death penalty" by the "flawed system" that practices it.

If I did.... I would run from Christianity all together.

So, if you lived in the area, you would join Joel Osteen's Church?  How about Benny Hinn?  The system does matter if it is run by heretics, or if those in charge of the system are the ones coercing false confessions from Mentally challenged teens, hiding the truth about false testimony, and hiding the fact that there was stronger evidence against one of the boy's parents than there was the 3 boys they convicted, and then 20 years later, convinces 2 of the boys into pleading guilty while at the same time maintaining their innocence (yes that was a legal plea) in order to get the 3rd boy who was on death row out of prison pleading the same thing so that they could cover up the truth and avoid being held accountable for their corruption.  All of this happened in West Memphis.  The system does make a difference when it is run by a bunch of corrupt, legal heretics.  I'm not saying that a slightly flawed system can't work.  We are a bit beyond that.  If you can't trust the system, why would you want the system deciding life and death?

 

[christundivided]

I don't judge the "death penalty" by the "flawed system" that practices it.

If I did.... I would run from Christianity all together.

So, if you lived in the area, you would join Joel Osteen's Church?  How about Benny Hinn?  The system does matter if it is run by heretics, or if those in charge of the system are the ones coercing false confessions from Mentally challenged teens, hiding the truth about false testimony, and hiding the fact that there was stronger evidence against one of the boy's parents than there was the 3 boys they convicted, and then 20 years later, convinces 2 of the boys into pleading guilty while at the same time maintaining their innocence (yes that was a legal plea) in order to get the 3rd boy who was on death row out of prison pleading the same thing so that they could cover up the truth and avoid being held accountable for their corruption.  All of this happened in West Memphis.  The system does make a difference when it is run by a bunch of corrupt, legal heretics.  I'm not saying that a slightly flawed system can't work.  We are a bit beyond that.  If you can't trust the system, why would you want the system deciding life and death?

The system is what the system is. I'm not part of the system. I'm not saying there isn't issues... but it doesn't change the fact I believe in the death penalty.

Personally, if I were in a situation in which someone I loved was killed and I have the power in my own hands to make the decisions.....They are going to meet their maker. I'm not leaving it up to the system.

Do you stop believing in Christ because Hinn is a heretic?

 

[BandGuy]

I don't judge the "death penalty" by the "flawed system" that practices it.

If I did.... I would run from Christianity all together.

So, if you lived in the area, you would join Joel Osteen's Church?  How about Benny Hinn?  The system does matter if it is run by heretics, or if those in charge of the system are the ones coercing false confessions from Mentally challenged teens, hiding the truth about false testimony, and hiding the fact that there was stronger evidence against one of the boy's parents than there was the 3 boys they convicted, and then 20 years later, convinces 2 of the boys into pleading guilty while at the same time maintaining their innocence (yes that was a legal plea) in order to get the 3rd boy who was on death row out of prison pleading the same thing so that they could cover up the truth and avoid being held accountable for their corruption.  All of this happened in West Memphis.  The system does make a difference when it is run by a bunch of corrupt, legal heretics.  I'm not saying that a slightly flawed system can't work.  We are a bit beyond that.  If you can't trust the system, why would you want the system deciding life and death?

The system is what the system is. I'm not part of the system. I'm not saying there isn't issues... but it doesn't change the fact I believe in the death penalty.

Personally, if I were in a situation in which someone I loved was killed and I have the power in my own hands to make the decisions.....They are going to meet their maker. I'm not leaving it up to the system.

Do you stop believing in Christ because Hinn is a heretic?

Nope.  Of course not.  Of course, I am not going to put my theological education, discipleship, and training in his hands.  Neither do I think we should put the life and death decisions in the hands of corrupt, evil and unaccountable men like this. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Nope.  Of course not.  Of course, I am not going to put my theological education, discipleship, and training in his hands.  Neither do I think we should put the life and death decisions in the hands of corrupt, evil and unaccountable men like this.

I'm for making sure that the government does a thorough and unbiased job of wielding the sword as well, but I doubt when Romans 13 was written there was a perfect system in place either.

 

[christundivided]

I don't judge the "death penalty" by the "flawed system" that practices it.

If I did.... I would run from Christianity all together.

So, if you lived in the area, you would join Joel Osteen's Church?  How about Benny Hinn?  The system does matter if it is run by heretics, or if those in charge of the system are the ones coercing false confessions from Mentally challenged teens, hiding the truth about false testimony, and hiding the fact that there was stronger evidence against one of the boy's parents than there was the 3 boys they convicted, and then 20 years later, convinces 2 of the boys into pleading guilty while at the same time maintaining their innocence (yes that was a legal plea) in order to get the 3rd boy who was on death row out of prison pleading the same thing so that they could cover up the truth and avoid being held accountable for their corruption.  All of this happened in West Memphis.  The system does make a difference when it is run by a bunch of corrupt, legal heretics.  I'm not saying that a slightly flawed system can't work.  We are a bit beyond that.  If you can't trust the system, why would you want the system deciding life and death?

The system is what the system is. I'm not part of the system. I'm not saying there isn't issues... but it doesn't change the fact I believe in the death penalty.

Personally, if I were in a situation in which someone I loved was killed and I have the power in my own hands to make the decisions.....They are going to meet their maker. I'm not leaving it up to the system.

Do you stop believing in Christ because Hinn is a heretic?

Nope.  Of course not.  Of course, I am not going to put my theological education, discipleship, and training in his hands.  Neither do I think we should put the life and death decisions in the hands of corrupt, evil and unaccountable men like this.

If there are trust worthy eye witnesses to a crime that deserves death.... Then I am for the a quick death. In such situations... I can't see why you wouldn't agree. The failures of one or many doesn't change this.

 

[BandGuy]

Nope.  Of course not.  Of course, I am not going to put my theological education, discipleship, and training in his hands.  Neither do I think we should put the life and death decisions in the hands of corrupt, evil and unaccountable men like this.

I'm for making sure that the government does a thorough and unbiased job of wielding the sword as well, but I doubt when Romans 13 was written there was a perfect system in place either.

Do you believe that the colonies were in violation of Romans 13 when they fought the Revolutionary War?  How about Bonhoffer when he opposed Hitler?  Just trying to understand how this works.  Thanks.

 

[BandGuy]

I don't judge the "death penalty" by the "flawed system" that practices it.

If I did.... I would run from Christianity all together.

So, if you lived in the area, you would join Joel Osteen's Church?  How about Benny Hinn?  The system does matter if it is run by heretics, or if those in charge of the system are the ones coercing false confessions from Mentally challenged teens, hiding the truth about false testimony, and hiding the fact that there was stronger evidence against one of the boy's parents than there was the 3 boys they convicted, and then 20 years later, convinces 2 of the boys into pleading guilty while at the same time maintaining their innocence (yes that was a legal plea) in order to get the 3rd boy who was on death row out of prison pleading the same thing so that they could cover up the truth and avoid being held accountable for their corruption.  All of this happened in West Memphis.  The system does make a difference when it is run by a bunch of corrupt, legal heretics.  I'm not saying that a slightly flawed system can't work.  We are a bit beyond that.  If you can't trust the system, why would you want the system deciding life and death?

The system is what the system is. I'm not part of the system. I'm not saying there isn't issues... but it doesn't change the fact I believe in the death penalty.

Personally, if I were in a situation in which someone I loved was killed and I have the power in my own hands to make the decisions.....They are going to meet their maker. I'm not leaving it up to the system.

Do you stop believing in Christ because Hinn is a heretic?

Nope.  Of course not.  Of course, I am not going to put my theological education, discipleship, and training in his hands.  Neither do I think we should put the life and death decisions in the hands of corrupt, evil and unaccountable men like this.

If there are trust worthy eye witnesses to a crime that deserves death.... Then I am for the a quick death. In such situations... I can't see why you wouldn't agree. The failures of one or many doesn't change this.

I think you assume too much when you say trustworthy.  That was obviously not the case in West Memphis.  The problem, as I see it, is that once that trust is broken in such a major way, and there is no accountability for it, it poisons the well for all previous and future judgments.  How many others were wrongly convicted and weren't as lucky as the WM3?  How many are being railroaded now?  Are you willing to put your own fate into the hands of such evil, corrupt and unaccountable men?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Do you believe that the colonies were in violation of Romans 13 when they fought the Revolutionary War?  How about Bonhoffer when he opposed Hitler?  Just trying to understand how this works.  Thanks.

A very worthy and complicated topic for sure, but keeping it simple, I believe that a Christian has a right and even maybe a duty to civil disobedience.  I leave such matters to the conscience of each believer, and if a person cannot support our government in the arena of the death penalty because they believe that the system is so horribly run amuck, then they must operate according to their <informed> conscience.  Personally, I think a greater good is done (at this point) than any wrong that is inevitably perpetrated against an innocent man.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Personally, I think a greater good is done (at this point) than any wrong that is inevitably perpetrated against an innocent man.
[/quote]

Until that innocent man is your own son.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Personally, I think a greater good is done (at this point) than any wrong that is inevitably perpetrated against an innocent man.

Until that innocent man is your own son.
[/quote]

What a turd.

How about the innocent son who gets killed by a worthless criminal?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Personally, I think a greater good is done (at this point) than any wrong that is inevitably perpetrated against an innocent man.

Until that innocent man is your own son.

What a turd.

How about the innocent son who gets killed by a worthless criminal?[/quote]

Or an innocent brother. Yeah...been there.

"Forgive me as I forgive those who have sinned against me."

 

[Smellin Coffee]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Personally, I think a greater good is done (at this point) than any wrong that is inevitably perpetrated against an innocent man.

Until that innocent man is your own son.

What a turd.

How about the innocent son who gets killed by a worthless criminal?

Or an innocent brother. Yeah...been there.

"Forgive me as I forgive those who have sinned against me."
[/quote]

One of the hardest commands to obey (for me, anyway)...

 

[BandGuy]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Personally, I think a greater good is done (at this point) than any wrong that is inevitably perpetrated against an innocent man.

Until that innocent man is your own son.

What a turd.

How about the innocent son who gets killed by a worthless criminal?
[/quote]

What about the innocent man who gets killed by a corrupt government while the worthless criminal has the evidence against him covered up by said government and walks free?  Almost every bit of that happened in West Memphis.  The only thing different is that the innocent man got set free after he and his two friends were coerced into pleading guilty while maintaining innocence (I know it sounds stupid, but that was the actual legal plea he made) so they could close the case and not hold anyone accountable for their corruption.  That's a legal system I want to trust my life with right there...  NOT!