Did it really harm us?

[Binaca Chugger]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

How nice of you to develop a theory.  Shall we check with God to find His viewpoint?

1Jn 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 2:9  He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

Let's go ahead and add into the mix this one:  1Ti 5:8  But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

According to God, this man in your hypothetical situation (though actual reality) is a liar, the truth is not in him, is worse than an infidel and is in darkness even until now.

If you realize that this is the man who taught you what you believe to be truth, you had better take a good look at what you believe to be truth.  I cannot fathom anyone simply accepting truth from such a sinister monster.  Myself?  I chose to throw it all out and start from scratch with just a Bible and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[16KJV11]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

BC, sounds like you had the whole system pegged when you were finished with HB.
Why did you stay?
If it was truly God that led you to stay and you suffered so profoundly through it all, then it is God's fault and you have every right to point your finger up to heaven and say: God, why did you let all this perverseness happen to me?
You know I don't believe that is true, but for the life of me, I don't understand that for a man who had his eyes WIDE OPEN, you still stepped in it.
You should have gotten out before you were hurt further.
It's the old adage...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[pbuckhunt]

My experience at HAC was a little different than most. My family attended a church in which our pastor was in Jack Hyles "inner circle." It was a couple hours from Hammond. HAC was the only acceptable college to go to. I wanted to go to law school, but was told by my girlfriend's father that if I wanted to keep dating his daughter I had to go to HAC.

I went with the idea to get out as quickly as possible. I finished in three years, and married my girlfriend. We are going on 33 years of marriage this June.

At HAC, I pretty much ignored the arrogance, kept my head down, and maintained a low profile. I learned a few things, found a love for History thanks to Mark Rassmussen, and finished pretty much unscathed.

I think the key for me was the fact that my parents supplied me with a good foundation and didn't buy all the garbage that HAC and our home pastor was pushing back then.

As a side note, our home pastor broke ties with Hyles shortly after I graduated, and has since went to every member and apologized for the direction he was headed back then.

 

[RAIDER]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

BC, sounds like you had the whole system pegged when you were finished with HB.
Why did you stay?
If it was truly God that led you to stay and you suffered so profoundly through it all, then it is God's fault and you have every right to point your finger up to heaven and say: God, why did you let all this perverseness happen to me?
You know I don't believe that is true, but for the life of me, I don't understand that for a man who had his eyes WIDE OPEN, you still stepped in it.
You should have gotten out before you were hurt further.
It's the old adage...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Exactly!!  I am so tired of those that went to HAC with their eyes wide open attacking EVERYTHING.  I understand a level of criticism, but to criticize someone who did not grow up in "the system" for saying they received some blessings from the place is just plain stupid!  Binaca, you walked in knowing enough to the point that you should have made a different decision.  Don't criticize those of us who walked in not knowing anything about the issues.

 

[RAIDER]

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

You say that I don't have the compassion necessary to understand your viewpoint.  Your viewpoint is that I am a JH apologist and a Hacker because I learned some good things while I was at HAC and knew of none of the evil.  Sorry, no compassion for your lack of common sense.

You say, "Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course."  So you are telling me it was God's will for you to go to HAC and graduate only to raise your hand in victory over everything HAC?  It was God's will for you to go to a place that you knew was "evil".  You would then walk out going a total different route in you Christianity than that which FBCH and HAC taught you.  Next, you would become bitter toward HAC/FBCH and all for which they stand until you reach the level you are today.  This was God's will for your life?

 

 

[RAIDER]

Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

How nice of you to develop a theory.  Shall we check with God to find His viewpoint?

1Jn 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 2:9  He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

Let's go ahead and add into the mix this one:  1Ti 5:8  But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

According to God, this man in your hypothetical situation (though actual reality) is a liar, the truth is not in him, is worse than an infidel and is in darkness even until now.

If you realize that this is the man who taught you what you believe to be truth, you had better take a good look at what you believe to be truth.  I cannot fathom anyone simply accepting truth from such a sinister monster.  Myself?  I chose to throw it all out and start from scratch with just a Bible and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Your post and the Scripture doesn't change the fact that I cannot unlearn the Biblical truths that he taught me.  It doesn't change the fact that he led me to the Lord.  I'm sorry that I cannot toss off all of the good because I find out the bad.

 

[RAIDER]

My experience at HAC was a little different than most. My family attended a church in which our pastor was in Jack Hyles "inner circle." It was a couple hours from Hammond. HAC was the only acceptable college to go to. I wanted to go to law school, but was told by my girlfriend's father that if I wanted to keep dating his daughter I had to go to HAC.

I went with the idea to get out as quickly as possible. I finished in three years, and married my girlfriend. We are going on 33 years of marriage this June.

At HAC, I pretty much ignored the arrogance, kept my head down, and maintained a low profile. I learned a few things, found a love for History thanks to Mark Rassmussen, and finished pretty much unscathed.

I think the key for me was the fact that my parents supplied me with a good foundation and didn't buy all the garbage that HAC and our home pastor was pushing back then.

As a side note, our home pastor broke ties with Hyles shortly after I graduated, and has since went to every member and apologized for the direction he was headed back then.

Thank you.

 

[LongGone]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

BC, sounds like you had the whole system pegged when you were finished with HB.
Why did you stay?
If it was truly God that led you to stay and you suffered so profoundly through it all, then it is God's fault and you have every right to point your finger up to heaven and say: God, why did you let all this perverseness happen to me?
You know I don't believe that is true, but for the life of me, I don't understand that for a man who had his eyes WIDE OPEN, you still stepped in it.
You should have gotten out before you were hurt further.
It's the old adage...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Wow...who are you to judge another man's servant especially when he was 18 at the time?. IMHO you are the one on here acting the fool.  You sound as if you are blaming the victim and letting the accuser go.

 

[RAIDER]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

BC, sounds like you had the whole system pegged when you were finished with HB.
Why did you stay?
If it was truly God that led you to stay and you suffered so profoundly through it all, then it is God's fault and you have every right to point your finger up to heaven and say: God, why did you let all this perverseness happen to me?
You know I don't believe that is true, but for the life of me, I don't understand that for a man who had his eyes WIDE OPEN, you still stepped in it.
You should have gotten out before you were hurt further.
It's the old adage...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Wow...who are you to judge another man's servant especially when he was 18 at the time?. IMHO you are the one on here acting the fool.  You sound as if you are blaming the victim and letting the accuser go.

If you read Binaca's post you will find out that even though he was 18 he knew much of the evil going on.  KJV is not saying that the wrong was not present and should not have been dealt with.  It is just the opposite.  Binaca is very critical of those of us who attended HAC not knowing any of the evil.  KJV is trying to figure out why he attended knowing the evil. 

 

[16KJV11]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

BC, sounds like you had the whole system pegged when you were finished with HB.
Why did you stay?
If it was truly God that led you to stay and you suffered so profoundly through it all, then it is God's fault and you have every right to point your finger up to heaven and say: God, why did you let all this perverseness happen to me?
You know I don't believe that is true, but for the life of me, I don't understand that for a man who had his eyes WIDE OPEN, you still stepped in it.
You should have gotten out before you were hurt further.
It's the old adage...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Wow...who are you to judge another man's servant especially when he was 18 at the time?. IMHO you are the one on here acting the fool.  You sound as if you are blaming the victim and letting the accuser go.

No sir, but when one knows that the abuser is an abuser and still walks, eyes wide open into that abusive situation, one HAS to wonder who is the bigger fool?
I am simply going by BC's own words.
He knew what he was getting into, but he says that God led him there.
I don't buy it for a minute.
If he got hurt, he has no one to blame for it but himself and I for one  have no pity on him.

 

[LongGone]

Exactly!!  I am so tired of those that went to HAC with their eyes wide open attacking EVERYTHING.  I understand a level of criticism, but to criticize someone who did not grow up in "the system" for saying they received some blessings from the place is just plain stupid!  Binaca, you walked in knowing enough to the point that you should have made a different decision.  Don't criticize those of us who walked in not knowing anything about the issues.

So you are tired of the ones who were direct victims.  You can be critical of those who received the blunt of the hypocrisy but don't let them be critical of you for appearing to defend people who failed to abide by what they loudly preached. No teenager has the experience to see with eyes wide open especially when that is what they have always known. 

 

[RAIDER]

I have defended no one.  I have no remorse for those that were committing the evil.  On the other hand, there were good people there who did not know.  Read Binaca's posts carefully and you will see that he knew.  Before he went to HAC he did not want to go to HAC. 

LongGone, this thread is so each individual can tell whether or not they were harmed by their time at HAC.  I knew nothing of the evil.  It was not out in the open during my time at HAC.  I did not agree with everything, but I received much good.  Binaca is more that welcome to tell his story, which he has.  He decided to attack me because I knew nothing of the evil, but rather learned some good.

 

[LongGone]

No sir, but when one knows that the abuser is an abuser and still walks, eyes wide open into that abusive situation, one HAS to wonder who is the bigger fool?
I am simply going by BC's own words.
He knew what he was getting into, but he says that God led him there.
I don't buy it for a minute.
If he got hurt, he has no one to blame for it but himself and I for one  have no pity on him.

So is no pity no compassion how you deal with people you minister who make a bad decision? So is no pity no compassion how you deal with anyone who stays in an abusive relationship?  So is no pity no compassion how you deal with anyone who struggles with addiction?  All people make poor decisions...somehow it seems less than Christ-like not to have pity or compassion on them. 

 

[LongGone]

I have defended no one.  I have no remorse for those that were committing the evil.  On the other hand, there were good people there who did not know.  Read Binaca's posts carefully and you will see that he knew.  Before he went to HAC he did not want to go to HAC. 

LongGone, this thread is so each individual can tell whether or not they were harmed by their time at HAC.  I knew nothing of the evil.  It was not out in the open during my time at HAC.  I did not agree with everything, but I received much good.  Binaca is more that welcome to tell his story, which he has.  He decided to attack me because I knew nothing of the evil, but rather learned some good.

I think Binaca attacked you because you talk about how "wonderful" your experience was it appears to say that nothing else that happened really matters because you had a "wonderful" experience. That may not be your intent but I do think it comes across that way. I also was unaware of the evil when I was there and I learned some things I have used in life but when I look at the evil that went on it is hard for me to say yeah but there was good. I feel almost like you are saying to an abused child "I know you father beat you frequently but remember when he took you to the amusement park?"  Whether it is your intent or not your post come across as it really wasn't that bad.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Did you know about the problems and scandals at HAC before you attended there?  If so, I must ask, why did you attend?  I knew of nothing before I went or while I was attending.  There is a BIG difference.

As some of the posters have pointed out to me, you need to realize that everyone's experience was different.  Let me paint you a scenario.  Let's say that I was let to the Lord by a fellow with whom I worked.  He was a great example to me and shared the Gospel with me.  After I was saved he discipled me and taught me much of the Christian life.  Years later I find out that the guy was beating his wife.  He ends up killing her.  Yes, I am crushed.  Yes, I am angry.  No, I don't have a desire to see him.  Do I forget what he did for me?  NO!!  Do I unlearn everything he taught me?  NO!!  Was there a time he was a blessing to me?  YES!

Check my previous post.  I grew up at FBCH.  I knew no other world outside of that system.  I saw things happen and questioned them, only to be lied to by all of my authority.  I did not know at the time that I could call the police to remedy situations in the lives of my friends.  I was inundated through every aspect of my life to believe the lies that were being told to me.  You apparently do not have the compassion necessary to understand my viewpoint. 

I have had several "Truman Show" moments in my life, each revealing a whole new level of control the idolatry of FBCH had on my life.  Personally, I was ready to leave the system and pursue a career away from anything church when I finished HB.  God changed my course.  I went to HAC one year.  During that year, God used a multitude of events to persuade me to stay through.  The day of graduation, I literally walked through the campus and raised my hand in victory over everything HAC.  I would spend my life serving God, but not like FBCH or HAC taught me.  In the last decade, I had another "Truman Show" moment.  God Himself orchestrated events in my life to pull back the curtains of deception and expose the idol's remaining control over my life.

I will not give honor to such perverse wickedness for teaching me the truths about God that I hold dear.  I will instead give that honor to God for pulling me out of the clutches of evil and mercifully restoring me to Himself despite my beginnings.  Did FBCH /HAC teach anything that is true?  Of course.  Even Satan quotes the Bible and states truths.  Satan even has a large following.  This does not make Satan a great man that should be heralded.

What if your teacher was a wicked, abusive person?  Wake up - he was.

BC, sounds like you had the whole system pegged when you were finished with HB.
Why did you stay?
If it was truly God that led you to stay and you suffered so profoundly through it all, then it is God's fault and you have every right to point your finger up to heaven and say: God, why did you let all this perverseness happen to me?
You know I don't believe that is true, but for the life of me, I don't understand that for a man who had his eyes WIDE OPEN, you still stepped in it.
You should have gotten out before you were hurt further.
It's the old adage...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Wow...who are you to judge another man's servant especially when he was 18 at the time?. IMHO you are the one on here acting the fool.  You sound as if you are blaming the victim and letting the accuser go.

No sir, but when one knows that the abuser is an abuser and still walks, eyes wide open into that abusive situation, one HAS to wonder who is the bigger fool?
I am simply going by BC's own words.
He knew what he was getting into, but he says that God led him there.
I don't buy it for a minute.
If he got hurt, he has no one to blame for it but himself and I for one  have no pity on him.

Your question is very typical for one who has never attempted to comprehend a system of abuse.  it is very similar to the question: Why did the Branch Dividians stay in the compound?  Why did they drink the kool-aid?  Why did the girls in the mormon compound stay?  They were vicitms of abuse who knew no world outside of their own.  Go even a little bit lighter - Why did not the child go to the police about her dad abusing her?  Answer: She was a child.  If you can't comprehend that truth, you need to study how to help victims of abuse (and not from a IFBer).

Yes.  God orchestrated events for me to attend and graduate from HAC.  He is sovereign.  I did not know the depths of corruption in place at the time of my attendance or even graduation.  Remember, I was lied to by every person in my life who knew the truth.  At the time, I thought the incidents I knew of were isolated.  After a year, I settled in, passed my classes and did my thing.  I wanted to spend my life pointing others to Christ.  Like I said earlier - In the past decade, God pulled back the curtain on those I thought I could have trusted to give me truth.  I discovered instead that they were corrupt. 

You folks who graduated from HAC don't understand the perspective of a victim.  If you are in ministry, you really need to learn and grow to the point that you can help the victim.  Putting blame on a victim for the atrocities of an adult is wrong.  Such action is defending sin.  I stand against such antics.

 

[RAIDER]

I have defended no one.  I have no remorse for those that were committing the evil.  On the other hand, there were good people there who did not know.  Read Binaca's posts carefully and you will see that he knew.  Before he went to HAC he did not want to go to HAC. 

LongGone, this thread is so each individual can tell whether or not they were harmed by their time at HAC.  I knew nothing of the evil.  It was not out in the open during my time at HAC.  I did not agree with everything, but I received much good.  Binaca is more that welcome to tell his story, which he has.  He decided to attack me because I knew nothing of the evil, but rather learned some good.

I think Binaca attacked you because you talk about how "wonderful" your experience was it appears to say that nothing else that happened really matters because you had a "wonderful" experience. That may not be your intent but I do think it comes across that way. I also was unaware of the evil when I was there and I learned some things I have used in life but when I look at the evil that went on it is hard for me to say yeah but there was good. I feel almost like you are saying to an abused child "I know you father beat you frequently but remember when he took you to the amusement park?"  Whether it is your intent or not your post come across as it really wasn't that bad.

You are putting words in my mouth.  My experience at HAC was not perfect.  I learned things at HAC.  I have never said that "nothing else that happened really matters".  This thread is about each of our times at HAC.  It is not about what I found out later.  It is about my experience when I was there.  The evil does matter.  I knew of none when I was there.  I now have different opinions about some of the people that were in authority.  If this thread was titled "How I feel about HAC now" my thoughts would be different.

Your illustration about an abuse father is not an accurate illustration.  I was not mistreated by HAC and now I'm wanting to look at the good. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

If he got hurt, he has no one to blame for it but himself and I for one  have no pity on him.

I don't want your pity.  I want you and anyone else who happens across this thread to realize that the abuser is the criminal and the abused is a victim. 

STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM FOR THE CRIMES OF THE ABUSER!

STOP GLORIFYING THE CIVIC GOOD OF ONE WHO WAS A CLOSET CRIMINAL!

You folks sound like the Chicagoan who praises Al Capone for his civic generosity.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Your question is very typical for one who has never attempted to comprehend a system of abuse.  it is very similar to the question: Why did the Branch Dividians stay in the compound?  Why did they drink the kool-aid?  Why did the girls in the mormon compound stay?  They were vicitms of abuse who knew no world outside of their own.  Go even a little bit lighter - Why did not the child go to the police about her dad abusing her?  Answer: She was a child.  If you can't comprehend that truth, you need to study how to help victims of abuse (and not from a IFBer).

Yes.  God orchestrated events for me to attend and graduate from HAC.  He is sovereign.  I did not know the depths of corruption in place at the time of my attendance or even graduation.  Remember, I was lied to by every person in my life who knew the truth.  At the time, I thought the incidents I knew of were isolated.  After a year, I settled in, passed my classes and did my thing.  I wanted to spend my life pointing others to Christ.  Like I said earlier - In the past decade, God pulled back the curtain on those I thought I could have trusted to give me truth.  I discovered instead that they were corrupt. 

You folks who graduated from HAC don't understand the perspective of a victim.  If you are in ministry, you really need to learn and grow to the point that you can help the victim.  Putting blame on a victim for the atrocities of an adult is wrong.  Such action is defending sin.  I stand against such antics.

BC, what you say is true. For me as a teenager, I took the rumors as simply "gossip" that was trying to tear down "men of God". The abuse I was eyewitness to, I felt like either the victim deserved it or the abuser was in authority so he was in the right. It wasn't until a mental maturation for me while in my collegiate years that I began to see the reality behind the things I saw and heard.

But in contrast, you and I weren't able to view the place from an outsider's viewpoint. RAIDER seems to be by nature an optimist and not as much a realist. There is nothing at all wrong with that; it is just a different perspective than you and I view it.

There are three main reasons I view it as a positive for me, despite the abuse (yes, even toward me personally).

1. I met my wife. If there were no HAC, our paths would not have crossed as her dad left another part of the country to come to HAC. Without her, my entire family dynamic would be different. I am so grateful to God for the family He gave me.

2. I learned mental strength. By nature, I am a "people pleaser" and generally take people at face value, seeking their approval. The lessons I learned at HAC closed me up so I built a wall between myself and everyone around me. Going back to Point 1, my wife helped me drop that wall and taught me how to make myself vulnerable yet thick-skinned. The mental exercise to think for myself began as a result of seeing FBC and the people I trusted fail me.

3. I learned the importance of forgiving others who have wronged me. Without Hammond, I might not be able to have learned this tough life's lesson.

I have to realize that so much of the negative there eventually created a positive in my life. There are scars all over my heart and psyche but for the most part, they have been healing over time, although healing will be a lifetime process. I also know that others haven't been able to reach the same position that I have. Everybody has a different "growth" rate anyway so I wouldn't expect one to come through that hell to the same conclusions I have about what we had to endure.

What happened to me and around me at HAC does have a bearing on me today. To think otherwise would be foolish. However, the lessons and gifts I've learned as a result of the crud are simply tools God has been using to shape me and change me. Remember, the Israelites celebrated Passover in remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt (among other things). Without Egypt, there would have been no need for celebration. Freedom from the Hammond bondage is something to be celebrated and helping others throw off those those bonds is important. But for those who never were entangled, we can't expect them to understand from our viewpoint. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with them picking out the positives.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

the Scripture doesn't change the fact that I .......

See?  HAC harmed you.  You quickly disregard the Scripture because of your opinion.

Your OP asked if HAC really harmed us.  I maintain that HAC harmed you - you just won't accept it.  You were taught fallacies that you still employ today.  I have purposefully chosen harsh words to cause you to examine yourself.  I challenge you to take a real look at yourself.  This challenge is to every HAC alum, not just one or two posters here.  You must realize that God killed kings for wicked worship.  I have no problem agreeing with God that some whose mouths speak of Him are no part of Him.