Did it really harm us?

[Vince Massi]

Hebrews 12:15 contains a salient point: "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;"

Yea, BC, in your face! 

Hold on there, Raider. I quoted Scripture that deals with a problem. I never attacked BC. And BC has never attacked me.

You stated that you and I are enemies. If that's the case, the sin is 100% your property--I'm not involved.

You also stated that you have never denied anyone else's mistreatment at HAC. That isn't true. you have given clear, strong, solid testimony that the Roadway Gang incidents never occurred, neglecting to mention that you were enrolled five years after the whole thing was over, everybody involved was gone, and the cover-up had been completed.

Now, BC--in the parable of the two servants, the first servant pictures you and me. He owed the King a debt he could never pay, and the King forgave him. But a second servant had wronged him (Jesus used the word "trespasses" to describe the second servant's conduct). The first servant was entitled to justice, but justice included being punished for his own sins.

If the first servant had forgiven the second servant, the first servant would never have received what he deserved. But the King wanted him to forgive anyway.

There is no question that you and I are entitled to justice from HAC. They owe us a debt for the wrongs they did. When we forgive that debt, we deny ourselves justice--but since justice includes eternal wrath on us, we're better off forgiving.

 

[Holy Mole]

I am not okay with the buyer beware aspect of HAC that you seem to be fine with.  I don't find that to be a Christ like position.

It is not a "buyer beware" philosophy.  HAC has made no secret of its standards and rules for students.  It has not hidden its philosophy toward preaching and church building.  If this is what you are after, go to HAC.  If this is not what you are after, go somewhere else.

Should a student that wants to be a lawyer attend a medical school?  If a student does, whose fault is it?  I don't think it has anything with not being Christlike.

I have seen you make this argument before. It would be interesting to see some old SOTL or even Revival Fires adds and compare the adds to the actual experience..

It's not about disclosed standards and rules it's about the inequitable application of rules and blatant hypocrisy of some of the staff and favored students.

We all heard him and were impressed with the preaching of Jack Hyles at some point. What some of us found out was that besides being a great orator and a motivator extraordinaire he was also a narcissist who equated every personal criticism(true or not) as an attack on the work of God.

We also heard him justify his beliefs, even his Bible doctrine by the size of his church. We heard great swelling words and found many of them to be held together by only a thin mortar of truth. As long as it got the job done better than anyone else was doing it, at the time, it was not only OK but was also not to be questioned. 

Yeah that's harming!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Hebrews 12:15 contains a salient point: "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;"

Yea, BC, in your face! 

Hold on there, Raider. I quoted Scripture that deals with a problem. I never attacked BC. And BC has never attacked me.

You stated that you and I are enemies. If that's the case, the sin is 100% your property--I'm not involved.

You also stated that you have never denied anyone else's mistreatment at HAC. That isn't true. you have given clear, strong, solid testimony that the Roadway Gang incidents never occurred, neglecting to mention that you were enrolled five years after the whole thing was over, everybody involved was gone, and the cover-up had been completed.

Now, BC--in the parable of the two servants, the first servant pictures you and me. He owed the King a debt he could never pay, and the King forgave him. But a second servant had wronged him (Jesus used the word "trespasses" to describe the second servant's conduct). The first servant was entitled to justice, but justice included being punished for his own sins.

If the first servant had forgiven the second servant, the first servant would never have received what he deserved. But the King wanted him to forgive anyway.

There is no question that you and I are entitled to justice from HAC. They owe us a debt for the wrongs they did. When we forgive that debt, we deny ourselves justice--but since justice includes eternal wrath on us, we're better off forgiving.

Yes, Vince.  I have read that parable.  I got a Bible and understand that forgiveness is imputation.  I can offer forgiveness  and can forgive the individual to God.  When the individuals refuse to repent relationship cannot be restored.  People need to understand  that forgiveness does not allow the abuse to continue.  Forgiveness does not allow criminals to continue to prey on victims.  Again, the HACker was taught a lie when he was taught the Bible mandates continued submission to an abuser under the guise of forgiveness.

I will stand against such heresy that has its roots in the idolatry of pride.  I will warn others of the manipulation of the idolatrous MOG.  This is my intent in this thread.

 

[Norefund]

Maybe if the thread had been titled "Did it harm you?" we wouldn't have this kind of argument as it would have been clear that each individual may have had a different experience.

 

[qwerty]

The roadway gang.... The Unicorn of HAC fables.

 

[Vince Massi]

Maybe if the thread had been titled "Did it harm you?" we wouldn't have this kind of argument as it would have been clear that each individual may have had a different experience.

Right you are. In the first few weeks of the opening year, Dr. Billings (who purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill) began ripping into the working students every few weeks. If your parents were paying your way, you were treated differently than the ones who had to work their way through.

 

[Timotheus]

Maybe if the thread had been titled "Did it harm you?" we wouldn't have this kind of argument as it would have been clear that each individual may have had a different experience.

Right you are. In the first few weeks of the opening year, Dr. Billings (who purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill) began ripping into the working students every few weeks. If your parents were paying your way, you were treated differently than the ones who had to work their way through.

Are you sure about that?  He worked in the Dep. of Ed. for President Reagan.  I don't believe they would have been okay with a diploma mill.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/01/us/robert-j-billings-is-dead-at-68-helped-form-the-moral-majority.html

 

[rsc2a]

Vince is clearly a scorner.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Maybe if the thread had been titled "Did it harm you?" we wouldn't have this kind of argument as it would have been clear that each individual may have had a different experience.

Right you are. In the first few weeks of the opening year, Dr. Billings (who purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill) began ripping into the working students every few weeks. If your parents were paying your way, you were treated differently than the ones who had to work their way through.

Are you sure about that?  He worked in the Dep. of Ed. for President Reagan.  I don't believe they would have been okay with a diploma mill.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/01/us/robert-j-billings-is-dead-at-68-helped-form-the-moral-majority.html

Vince might be right.

Robert Billings, a former official of the Moral Majority who is now director of the regianal [sic] liaison office of the Department of Education (DOE) in Washington, is the author of the speech, mailed by a DOE regional director in Denver to six western states, which deplored the erosion of “Christian values” in American public schools, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency has learned

Billings, a former executive director of the Moral Majority, has been described as the “Christian Right’s inside man ” in the Reagan Administration, according to Congressional sources. These sources asserted that Billings, who identifies himself as a doctor, recieved [sic] his doctorate from a Tennessee correspondence school since shut-down by state officials after it was labeled a “diploma mill.” Billings could not be reached for comment.

http://www.jta.org/1985/01/24/archive/exclusive-to-the-jta-former-moral-majority-official-is-author-of-speech-deploring-erosion-of-christ

Original source of the above article:

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00010090/02922/6j


Secondary sources:

https://books.google.com/books?id=q-YDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT9&lpg=PT9&dq=robert+billings+diploma+mill&source=bl&ots=zuonQ-xgqV&sig=K4I1ZPWlGCBDHvmWIjf9NqxkAbU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wK3oVKKpNMqAygTljIG4Bw&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=robert%20billings%20diploma%20mill&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=VkdZyX5lsGwC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=robert+billings+diploma+mill&source=bl&ots=B-nLA2qefr&sig=xwWQwJoxfM6H2CUnXhs3LaIQ1-w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wK3oVKKpNMqAygTljIG4Bw&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=robert%20billings%20diploma%20mill&f=false

 

[Timotheus]

Maybe if the thread had been titled "Did it harm you?" we wouldn't have this kind of argument as it would have been clear that each individual may have had a different experience.

Right you are. In the first few weeks of the opening year, Dr. Billings (who purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill) began ripping into the working students every few weeks. If your parents were paying your way, you were treated differently than the ones who had to work their way through.

Are you sure about that?  He worked in the Dep. of Ed. for President Reagan.  I don't believe they would have been okay with a diploma mill.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/01/us/robert-j-billings-is-dead-at-68-helped-form-the-moral-majority.html

Vince might be right.

Robert Billings, a former official of the Moral Majority who is now director of the regianal [sic] liaison office of the Department of Education (DOE) in Washington, is the author of the speech, mailed by a DOE regional director in Denver to six western states, which deplored the erosion of “Christian values” in American public schools, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency has learned

Billings, a former executive director of the Moral Majority, has been described as the “Christian Right’s inside man ” in the Reagan Administration, according to Congressional sources. These sources asserted that Billings, who identifies himself as a doctor, recieved [sic] his doctorate from a Tennessee correspondence school since shut-down by state officials after it was labeled a “diploma mill.” Billings could not be reached for comment.

http://www.jta.org/1985/01/24/archive/exclusive-to-the-jta-former-moral-majority-official-is-author-of-speech-deploring-erosion-of-christ

Original source of the above article:

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00010090/02922/6j


Secondary sources:

https://books.google.com/books?id=q-YDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT9&lpg=PT9&dq=robert+billings+diploma+mill&source=bl&ots=zuonQ-xgqV&sig=K4I1ZPWlGCBDHvmWIjf9NqxkAbU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wK3oVKKpNMqAygTljIG4Bw&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=robert%20billings%20diploma%20mill&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=VkdZyX5lsGwC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=robert+billings+diploma+mill&source=bl&ots=B-nLA2qefr&sig=xwWQwJoxfM6H2CUnXhs3LaIQ1-w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wK3oVKKpNMqAygTljIG4Bw&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=robert%20billings%20diploma%20mill&f=false

So many layers of partial truths (lies) at HAC.

So who at HAC actual earned doctorates?

Dr. Evans
Dr. Cowling
?

Also it looks like President Reagan knew what to do with the trouble makers on the right - stick them in a bureaucratic position and never hear from them again! 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Maybe if the thread had been titled "Did it harm you?" we wouldn't have this kind of argument as it would have been clear that each individual may have had a different experience.

Right you are. In the first few weeks of the opening year, Dr. Billings (who purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill) began ripping into the working students every few weeks. If your parents were paying your way, you were treated differently than the ones who had to work their way through.

Are you sure about that?  He worked in the Dep. of Ed. for President Reagan.  I don't believe they would have been okay with a diploma mill.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/01/us/robert-j-billings-is-dead-at-68-helped-form-the-moral-majority.html

Vince might be right.

Robert Billings, a former official of the Moral Majority who is now director of the regianal [sic] liaison office of the Department of Education (DOE) in Washington, is the author of the speech, mailed by a DOE regional director in Denver to six western states, which deplored the erosion of “Christian values” in American public schools, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency has learned

Billings, a former executive director of the Moral Majority, has been described as the “Christian Right’s inside man ” in the Reagan Administration, according to Congressional sources. These sources asserted that Billings, who identifies himself as a doctor, recieved [sic] his doctorate from a Tennessee correspondence school since shut-down by state officials after it was labeled a “diploma mill.” Billings could not be reached for comment.

http://www.jta.org/1985/01/24/archive/exclusive-to-the-jta-former-moral-majority-official-is-author-of-speech-deploring-erosion-of-christ

Original source of the above article:

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00010090/02922/6j


Secondary sources:

https://books.google.com/books?id=q-YDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT9&lpg=PT9&dq=robert+billings+diploma+mill&source=bl&ots=zuonQ-xgqV&sig=K4I1ZPWlGCBDHvmWIjf9NqxkAbU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wK3oVKKpNMqAygTljIG4Bw&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=robert%20billings%20diploma%20mill&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=VkdZyX5lsGwC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=robert+billings+diploma+mill&source=bl&ots=B-nLA2qefr&sig=xwWQwJoxfM6H2CUnXhs3LaIQ1-w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wK3oVKKpNMqAygTljIG4Bw&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=robert%20billings%20diploma%20mill&f=false

So many layers of partial truths (lies) at HAC.

So who at HAC actual earned doctorates?

Dr. Evans
Dr. Cowling
?

IIRC, I think Evans got his from Bob Jones. Not sure. Cowling's was University of Tennessee I think. He was actually a professor at UoT before coming to HAC (again, might be my faulty memory but I think that is accurate). Dunno about Helton.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

So many layers of partial truths (lies) at HAC.

Since Billings started the school and everybody was under the idea of legitimate educational achievements, it suggests that there was a form of deceit from the beginning.

My mom (teacher at HAC from 1973 - 1990) DID earn her Masters Degree legitimately from Elmira College, an accredited school in New York.

 

[Vince Massi]

Thank you, Coffee.

Now, getting back to bitterness.

If the first servant in the parable had forgiven the second servant, the first servant would have been out 100 days' wages (That's a lot of money) that was owed him due to wrong-doing by the second servant. In other words, the first servant would have produced "hurt" by obeying God's command to forgive.

If you are suffering pain from a past wrong, it doesn't prove that you have not forgiven the person. But what can you do about it?

Hebrews 12:15 tells us "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;" But look at the first half of the sentence, in the previous verse:

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:"  It is not enough to forgive your debtors; you need to seek peace with them.

 

[Tennessean]

I am approaching this thread from the angle of a young person attending HAC for four years and graduating.  Regardless of our current level of criticism, did the time there really harm us?  Did it lessen our walk with Christ?  Did it make us a bad testimony?  Did it instill in us heresy?  Did we leave HAC with a closer walk with God or further from Him?

What say ye, Hacker Nation?

It's been something to read some of these posts. I've watched the FFF for several years now and it seems no matter what thread Raider or anyone else tries to start, there is a group of people who will cause every thread to degenerate into the same old, "HAC was bad, corrupt, uh I'm bitter, etc." Some of it might be warranted for some people. I think the people who lived in their own private homes have no reason to gripe. You could have made a change if you wanted to.

Now to answer the original question about this thread. My time at HAC did not hurt me. Not mentally, physically nor professionally. I went to HAC because I felt the Lord leading me to do so. I admired Jack Hyles and wanted to be a preacher like he was and wanted to pastor a church like he did. Since leaving HAC, the college has helped me as much as any other college would have under the same circumstances.

When I went there I did not know all the rules, or how stupid sounding some of them were. For example, I did not like to have to turn my recorded music in to get it approved, I did not like it that the dining hall was virtually closed on weekends, I did not like having my hair length scrutinized, but I accepted it and I stayed.

I went knowing that Dave Hyles had sinned. Once there I heard the rumors about his time on staff there. I believe Bro. Hyles when he said he didn't know. I think Dave was smart enough to have an answer to every accusation.

I knew about the Sumner scandal a year before it broke. I read the article when it came out. It too made me sick like it did others, but it made me sick when I read it from the perspective of saying over and over to myself as I read it, "That's not true, I know that's not true." And then I would remember the things that made the accusations not true. I also got an up front look at the people who were accusing Jack Hyles of everything under the sun. I saw their wickedness and deceitfulness and thought why should I believe these people who attack my pastor. (If you want details I'll post the stories)

All this happened while I was there. So here's the bottom line. I went to HAC loving the Lord, I left HAC loving the Lord. I loved the Bible when I went there, I believe I love and cherish the Bible more the day I left there. While there I received the blessed assurance of my salvation. While there I was taught the truths of the Bible. While there I learned to love people. While there I was taught the importance of having a personal walk with the Lord. Now that I pastor I know the importance of having a daily walk with the Lord. Was I happy with everything I saw? No. But if I didn't like it could have left. I had the opportunity.

To those whose experience at HAC was not like mine, I'm sorry.

 

[16KJV11]

I am approaching this thread from the angle of a young person attending HAC for four years and graduating.  Regardless of our current level of criticism, did the time there really harm us?  Did it lessen our walk with Christ?  Did it make us a bad testimony?  Did it instill in us heresy?  Did we leave HAC with a closer walk with God or further from Him?

What say ye, Hacker Nation?

It's been something to read some of these posts. I've watched the FFF for several years now and it seems no matter what thread Raider or anyone else tries to start, there is a group of people who will cause every thread to degenerate into the same old, "HAC was bad, corrupt, uh I'm bitter, etc." Some of it might be warranted for some people. I think the people who lived in their own private homes have no reason to gripe. You could have made a change if you wanted to.

Now to answer the original question about this thread. My time at HAC did not hurt me. Not mentally, physically nor professionally. I went to HAC because I felt the Lord leading me to do so. I admired Jack Hyles and wanted to be a preacher like he was and wanted to pastor a church like he did. Since leaving HAC, the college has helped me as much as any other college would have under the same circumstances.

When I went there I did not know all the rules, or how stupid sounding some of them were. For example, I did not like to have to turn my recorded music in to get it approved, I did not like it that the dining hall was virtually closed on weekends, I did not like having my hair length scrutinized, but I accepted it and I stayed.

I went knowing that Dave Hyles had sinned. Once there I heard the rumors about his time on staff there. I believe Bro. Hyles when he said he didn't know. I think Dave was smart enough to have an answer to every accusation.

I knew about the Sumner scandal a year before it broke. I read the article when it came out. It too made me sick like it did others, but it made me sick when I read it from the perspective of saying over and over to myself as I read it, "That's not true, I know that's not true." And then I would remember the things that made the accusations not true. I also got an up front look at the people who were accusing Jack Hyles of everything under the sun. I saw their wickedness and deceitfulness and thought why should I believe these people who attack my pastor. (If you want details I'll post the stories)

All this happened while I was there. So here's the bottom line. I went to HAC loving the Lord, I left HAC loving the Lord. I loved the Bible when I went there, I believe I love and cherish the Bible more the day I left there. While there I received the blessed assurance of my salvation. While there I was taught the truths of the Bible. While there I learned to love people. While there I was taught the importance of having a personal walk with the Lord. Now that I pastor I know the importance of having a daily walk with the Lord. Was I happy with everything I saw? No. But if I didn't like it could have left. I had the opportunity.

To those whose experience at HAC was not like mine, I'm sorry.

Oh, you wicked, stinkin' deceitful HAC brown nosing...HOW DARE YOU HAVE A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE AT HAC?  : 8)

 

[Matthew1323]

Oh, you wicked, stinkin' deceitful HAC brown nosing...

  I agree.

I would also like to add...and you stinkin' all things Hyles and RAIDER are wonderful Boot  Licker! Tennesseeman, get a grip!

 

[Norefund]

You should ask Joy Evans Ryder if Jack Hyles knew about Dave Hyles.

I am approaching this thread from the angle of a young person attending HAC for four years and graduating.  Regardless of our current level of criticism, did the time there really harm us?  Did it lessen our walk with Christ?  Did it make us a bad testimony?  Did it instill in us heresy?  Did we leave HAC with a closer walk with God or further from Him?

What say ye, Hacker Nation?

It's been something to read some of these posts. I've watched the FFF for several years now and it seems no matter what thread Raider or anyone else tries to start, there is a group of people who will cause every thread to degenerate into the same old, "HAC was bad, corrupt, uh I'm bitter, etc." Some of it might be warranted for some people. I think the people who lived in their own private homes have no reason to gripe. You could have made a change if you wanted to.

Now to answer the original question about this thread. My time at HAC did not hurt me. Not mentally, physically nor professionally. I went to HAC because I felt the Lord leading me to do so. I admired Jack Hyles and wanted to be a preacher like he was and wanted to pastor a church like he did. Since leaving HAC, the college has helped me as much as any other college would have under the same circumstances.

When I went there I did not know all the rules, or how stupid sounding some of them were. For example, I did not like to have to turn my recorded music in to get it approved, I did not like it that the dining hall was virtually closed on weekends, I did not like having my hair length scrutinized, but I accepted it and I stayed.

I went knowing that Dave Hyles had sinned. Once there I heard the rumors about his time on staff there. I believe Bro. Hyles when he said he didn't know. I think Dave was smart enough to have an answer to every accusation.

I knew about the Sumner scandal a year before it broke. I read the article when it came out. It too made me sick like it did others, but it made me sick when I read it from the perspective of saying over and over to myself as I read it, "That's not true, I know that's not true." And then I would remember the things that made the accusations not true. I also got an up front look at the people who were accusing Jack Hyles of everything under the sun. I saw their wickedness and deceitfulness and thought why should I believe these people who attack my pastor. (If you want details I'll post the stories)

All this happened while I was there. So here's the bottom line. I went to HAC loving the Lord, I left HAC loving the Lord. I loved the Bible when I went there, I believe I love and cherish the Bible more the day I left there. While there I received the blessed assurance of my salvation. While there I was taught the truths of the Bible. While there I learned to love people. While there I was taught the importance of having a personal walk with the Lord. Now that I pastor I know the importance of having a daily walk with the Lord. Was I happy with everything I saw? No. But if I didn't like it could have left. I had the opportunity.

To those whose experience at HAC was not like mine, I'm sorry.

 

[Sherryh]

There were somethings that happened and now you look back and say what were they thinking...

1. A pastor was honored at Pastor's School and he was not honoring God...that's all I will say. This is a true story ...how do you not think why did they do it and they knew what the pastor was doing.

 

[prophet]

There are many ways that we were harmed, doctrinally.
Some have since searched the Scriptures, some continue to repeat only what man tells them that God says.

Works Sanctification
Pastoral Authority
Salesmanship Evangelism
Performance over holiness
Pride
Application Homoletics
Topical Hermenuetics
Moral Superiority
Evil Speaking
Clamouring
Malicious gossip

And on and on.

 

[Tennessean]

You should ask Joy Evans Ryder if Jack Hyles knew about Dave Hyles.

I am approaching this thread from the angle of a young person attending HAC for four years and graduating.  Regardless of our current level of criticism, did the time there really harm us?  Did it lessen our walk with Christ?  Did it make us a bad testimony?  Did it instill in us heresy?  Did we leave HAC with a closer walk with God or further from Him?

What say ye, Hacker Nation?

It's been something to read some of these posts. I've watched the FFF for several years now and it seems no matter what thread Raider or anyone else tries to start, there is a group of people who will cause every thread to degenerate into the same old, "HAC was bad, corrupt, uh I'm bitter, etc." Some of it might be warranted for some people. I think the people who lived in their own private homes have no reason to gripe. You could have made a change if you wanted to.

Now to answer the original question about this thread. My time at HAC did not hurt me. Not mentally, physically nor professionally. I went to HAC because I felt the Lord leading me to do so. I admired Jack Hyles and wanted to be a preacher like he was and wanted to pastor a church like he did. Since leaving HAC, the college has helped me as much as any other college would have under the same circumstances.

When I went there I did not know all the rules, or how stupid sounding some of them were. For example, I did not like to have to turn my recorded music in to get it approved, I did not like it that the dining hall was virtually closed on weekends, I did not like having my hair length scrutinized, but I accepted it and I stayed.

I went knowing that Dave Hyles had sinned. Once there I heard the rumors about his time on staff there. I believe Bro. Hyles when he said he didn't know. I think Dave was smart enough to have an answer to every accusation.

I knew about the Sumner scandal a year before it broke. I read the article when it came out. It too made me sick like it did others, but it made me sick when I read it from the perspective of saying over and over to myself as I read it, "That's not true, I know that's not true." And then I would remember the things that made the accusations not true. I also got an up front look at the people who were accusing Jack Hyles of everything under the sun. I saw their wickedness and deceitfulness and thought why should I believe these people who attack my pastor. (If you want details I'll post the stories)

All this happened while I was there. So here's the bottom line. I went to HAC loving the Lord, I left HAC loving the Lord. I loved the Bible when I went there, I believe I love and cherish the Bible more the day I left there. While there I received the blessed assurance of my salvation. While there I was taught the truths of the Bible. While there I learned to love people. While there I was taught the importance of having a personal walk with the Lord. Now that I pastor I know the importance of having a daily walk with the Lord. Was I happy with everything I saw? No. But if I didn't like it could have left. I had the opportunity.

To those whose experience at HAC was not like mine, I'm sorry.

Remember knowing things like this was not the point of Raiders post. I responded to what Raider asked.

But perhaps you did not hear the official public quote made by Dr. Wendell Evans after the initial charge was made concerning David and his daughter. He said, "That is a wicked vile lie."

Now knowing nothing else in the early 1980's you would find Wendell Evans a credible spokesman for his family and daughter. I realize that Joy has come forward with a different story. I do support her campaign to eliminate statute of limitation laws in IN regarding sexual abuse.