Dispensational Discussion

RAIDER said:
Excerpt #5

The Noahic Covenant and The Dispensation of Human Government

When Noah left the ark after the flood, God made His third covenant with man; the Noahic Covenant (Gen. 8:20-9:17). Like the previous this covenant is also unconditional and lasts until the renovation of the earth by fire (2 Pet. 3:10). In many ways God is starting over with man. Having destroyed everyone except Noah and his family because of extreme wickedness, God sought to replenish the earth through Noah because Noah found grace in His eyes (Gen. 6:8). Like the others before, this covenant contains promises TO man and responsibilities required OF man. The promises were:
1. God would not curse the ground anymore or smite every living thing (Gen. 8:20).
2. He would not flood the earth again and destroy it (Gen. 9:11).
3. The seasons and day and night will not cease (Gen. 8:22).
4. He would set the sign of a (rain)bow in the clouds as a token of His covenant (Gen. 9:12).

These promises are valid and continue regardless of man's conduct, but God also had some requirements for man to follow:
 
1. He was to again multiply and replenish the earth (Gen. 9:1,7).
2. They were not to eat blood from any source (Gen. 9:4).
3. They were to exercise capital punishment upon man and beast (Gen. 9:5).

God also made two other statements related to this covenant:

1. Animals would fear and dread man (Gen. 9:2).
2. Animals were now available for food (Gen. 9:3).

Through the great object lesson of the flood, God showed humanity His hatred of sin. Though man often takes sin lightly, God proved He does not and will always ultimately punish iniquity. Also seen in this is God's long-suffering nature. The Lord will sometimes delay punishment to allow space for repentance. This is clear from the grace found in the above promises to Noah. God knows that because of the fall of Adam, every man is born inherently wicked. Because of this He will not smite the earth again in the same manner since He has made His will clearly known about sin with the flood. In the future He will destroy the Antichrist and all his followers at the second advent, but he will not destroy the earth itself until his great scheme of things concerning it is over, and then only with fire.

Much of man's obligations under this covenant are still in effect today and will continue until the elements melt with fervent heat (2 Pet. 3:10). The command against the eating of blood is also found in the New Testament (Acts 15:29) and capital punishment is still God's will even if many today ignore it (Rom. 13:4). Remember, the subject of capital punishment was first brought up by God. There is no record it was ever practiced before God made the command to Noah. It is solely His idea and shows the sanctity of human life and the consequences of taking it with malice. Under the law God gave more details concerning its implementation.

Utter stupidity. Civil government was established before the flood. To say anything otherwise.... is entirely moronic.

1. God would not curse the ground anymore or smite every living thing (Gen. 8:20).

Wrong verse. If you're going to paste something.... at least fix the problems with it first. You didn't even proof read it. Doesn't surprise me at all. You're careless

2. He would not flood the earth again and destroy it (Gen. 9:11).

You mean that there wouldn't be a global flood that killed all of mankind save "8"? There have been many many floods since that have killed..... ,many, MANY people.

3. The seasons and day and night will not cease (Gen. 8:22).

They never ceased to begin with. The flood made it appear as to have ceased. Its not like the "flood" lasted throughout the seasons.

4. He would set the sign of a (rain)bow in the clouds as a token of His covenant (Gen. 9:12).

Verse 12 doesn't say anything about a rainbow. NOTHING.... Sloppy. Sloppy work..... and you admire this person you're copying from?


 
Excerpt #6

Rebellion at Babel

The primary responsibility of man in the Noahic Covenant was to "be fruitful and multiply and REPLENISH THE EARTH," but in this also he miserably failed. The earth's population did rapidly increase after the flood, but all the people stayed near an area later known as Babel. God wanted man to scatter and repopulate the whole earth, not remain in one area. The failure of man to do this brought upon him another judgment.
The descendants of Noah directly rebelled against the command to scatter and sought to stay united around a great city and tower in the plain of Shinar. In a few short years they also abandoned God in all their thoughts like those before the flood, and their greatest fear was not to displease God, but that they would be scattered. They thought safety was in numbers. It appears they built the city, with its tower, to act as a political, cultural, and religious center for them to gather around and become as a group, self-reliant. They thought they did not need any God and could "make the world a better place to live in" by themselves. God looked down and saw how they were one in language and purpose (what man says he strives for today), and how they were on the verge of making their imaginations real (likely with autos, airplanes, spacecraft, computers, or similar), and He decided to scatter them Himself.

God was not yet ready for man to advance in knowledge and technology as much as the people of Babel were capable of, so He did the simplest thing; He confounded their language. There were some vital lessons God wanted man to learn about himself and his Creator over the coming centuries before He would allow them to advance that far. Clearly, God is a segregator. The world at that time was determined to stay united and integrated, but God had other plans. The confounding of their language (certainly Hebrew) and resulting scattering was also a punishment for their disobedience. The different tongues made the respective groups unfamiliar with each other, and each language group became primarily occupied with getting and keeping territory, goods, and wealth from the other, now strange, groups. Building a one world empire was in the meanwhile forgotten. Most of the wars, famines, and other forms of suffering found throughout history are a direct result of the rebellion of the world at Babel.

The Dispensation of Human Government, which ran from Noah to Abraham, made man responsible for governing himself when he did wrong. God gave him very basic principles (listed above) to guide him in this, and man was required to keep them. Since man would not listen to his conscience and let it lead him to God, God made mankind as a whole responsible for punishing the sins of individuals and keeping iniquity in check. Of course, in this also man failed, but now he cannot come to God and say he wasn't given a chance to try! Instead of forming a government that was consistent with God and His commands, man developed one that was directly against him. As the one world, global, universal, United Nations, common market, Babel of today, the Babel of 4300 years ago was more concerned about unity and progress than about their sins and God.

Before we move on there is another covenant-like setup found in this dispensation between God and Noah's three sons (Gen. 9:20-29). After Noah heard the details of the above covenant, he planted a vineyard and became drunk from the wine it produced. While he was in this drunken state his son, Ham, came in unto him and saw his "nakedness." In other words Ham sodomized his father (Gen. 9:24; Lev. 18:6). When Noah recovered from his wine and realized what Ham had "done unto him," he cursed Ham's seed in the person of his son Canaan. He didn't curse Ham himself because God had previously blessed him (Gen. 9:1). Noah then continues to make a series of prophetic statements that may have been somewhat vague to his three sons (the fathers of the three races), but events that have occurred down through history since make them clearer to us.

1. Canaan (Ham's seed) is cursed to be a servant of his brethren (Shem and Japeth). Since the descendants of Ham moved south toward Africa, making him the father of the black race, this curse begins to fall into place. For millennia members of the black race have been slaves to other men.

2. Shem on the other hand is blessed. Noah said "blessed be the Lord God of Shem," and we learn later Shem is an ancestor of Abraham and the Lord Jesus Christ. God blessed the world with a Savior through Shem.

3. Japeth also is blessed, and he was to be enlarged and dwell in the former dwelling places (tents) of Shem. If at no other time, this has come to pass in the last 500 years. Thousands of Japethites (Europeans) crossed the Atlantic into North and South America, into dwelling places of Shemites.

These blessings and curse have come to pass in every detail. Shem is the religious race (every major religion came from him); Japeth is the worldly, materialistic race; and Canaan is their servant. Of course there are many individual exceptions to this, but racially they are consistent.

 
RAIDER said:
Excerpt #6

Rebellion at Babel

The primary responsibility of man in the Noahic Covenant was to "be fruitful and multiply and REPLENISH THE EARTH," but in this also he miserably failed. The earth's population did rapidly increase after the flood, but all the people stayed near an area later known as Babel. God wanted man to scatter and repopulate the whole earth, not remain in one area. The failure of man to do this brought upon him another judgment.
The descendants of Noah directly rebelled against the command to scatter and sought to stay united around a great city and tower in the plain of Shinar.

You have got to love the "liberties" this moron has taken with the text...

So here we go RAIDER...

Just where does the Scriptures say God told mankind to "scatter"????

I know you don't have any problems "adding to the Scriptures"???? but you should really stop posting such nonsense.
 
christundivided said:
Just where does the Scriptures say God told mankind to "scatter"????


Genesis 11:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.



Deuteronomy 32:8
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.




Acts 17:26-28
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

26 and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 
christundivided said:
Verse 12 doesn't say anything about a rainbow. NOTHING....


Did you ever consider reading the verse in its Context within the passage?


Genesis 9:8-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, 9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 and with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. 11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. 12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: 13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: 15 and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. 17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
 
Biblebeliever said:
christundivided said:
Just where does the Scriptures say God told mankind to "scatter"????


Genesis 11:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.



Deuteronomy 32:8
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.




Acts 17:26-28
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

26 and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Sorry buddy.... Nothing but lies. God never commanded man to "scatter". God did "scatter" man when they sought to be just like "God".... Two entirely different things. You're the one "reading into" what the Scriptures say. You've got to add your "dispy" twist on everything the Scriptures say. You're not alone... All you dispensationalist tend to "add to the Word of God" whenever it "suits you".

Just an FYI.... the reference you used in Acts 17:26-28... speaks of God's natural law in this world. Its not talking of "where" He wanted man to live. God wasn't saying the man should scatter all over the earth like you've made it out to be. God "scattered" man when they forgot God and relied solely on the efforts of their hands. I don't expect God to show in New York one day and "scatter" all New Yorkers to the arctic so they can enjoy the mild summers. 
 
Biblebeliever said:
christundivided said:
Verse 12 doesn't say anything about a rainbow. NOTHING....


Did you ever consider reading the verse in its Context within the passage?


Genesis 9:8-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, 9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 and with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. 11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. 12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: 13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: 15 and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. 17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

I know exactly what it says. You're the one that can't get a reference right.  Don't be so sloppy.
 
Most of this seems quite immaterial to me but I have to say that christundivided is clearly losing.

He has to resort to name-calling (always a sign of a weak argument) and he keeps misrepresenting RAIDER's position.(purposefully?)
RAIDER: I'm not a dispensationalist but here's what some dispy's believe and I'm not sure why it is wrong . .
christundivided: I'm going to ignore your post and berate you for something hyper-dispensationalist believe even though you haven't professed such belief and it has nothing to do with the current topic
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Most of this seems quite immaterial to me but I have to say that christundivided is clearly losing.

He has to resort to name-calling (always a sign of a weak argument) and he keeps misrepresenting RAIDER's position.(purposefully?)
RAIDER: I'm not a dispensationalist but here's what some dispy's believe and I'm not sure why it is wrong . .
christundivided: I'm going to ignore your post and berate you for something hyper-dispensationalist believe even though you haven't professed such belief and it has nothing to do with the current topic
LOL!!
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Most of this seems quite immaterial to me but I have to say that christundivided is clearly losing.

He has to resort to name-calling (always a sign of a weak argument) and he keeps misrepresenting RAIDER's position.(purposefully?)
RAIDER: I'm not a dispensationalist but here's what some dispy's believe and I'm not sure why it is wrong . .
christundivided: I'm going to ignore your post and berate you for something hyper-dispensationalist believe even though you haven't professed such belief and it has nothing to do with the current topic

Poor little boy. You just don't like me very much because I've called you on some of the moronic "stuff" you like to peddle.

Do you care to answer why you've laid such charges against me?

1.  I haven't ignored anything. Do you care to share just exactly what I've ignored???
2. I've haven't misrepresented RAIDER's position at all. I don't even believe RAIDER has a position. In fact, he is just beginning to learn much of anything about systematic theology. He doesn't really have enough knowledge to begin to form an educated opinion.

There isn't much of a difference between a hyper-dispensationalist and a dispensationalist. Now.... dispensationalist would like for you to think there is.... but there really isn't much of difference at all. If you buy the "dispenstional" argument.... Then the natural progression of the teaching is create a new dispensation any time there is a conflict found in the teaching. Its a naturally "progressive" teaching. I can't help you really don't understand much of anything about it.

 
Excerpt #7


The Abrahamic Covenant and The Dispensation of Promise

Nine generations after Shem, Abraham was born. Abraham was about 75 years old and living in Ur of the Chaldees when God one day spoke to him. God, through His amazing grace, wanted to make another covenant with man and chose Abraham as His partner. The covenant He made with him was again unconditional and contained many promises (Gen 12:1-3). The only hint of a condition appears to be that Abraham had to forsake his home and family and go to a land God would show him. When Abraham obeyed and entered the land the promises became fixed. God promised to:

1. Make Abraham a great nation (vs. 2). This promise has been fulfilled both physically and spiritually. Physically through Isaac and Ishmael, spiritually through all those who have Abraham's faith (Gal. 3:7).
2. To bless him (vs. 2), and He did this also both physically (13:14-18) and spiritually (15:6).
3. To make his name great (vs. 2). Still today the name of Abraham is known and respected by millions.
4. Make him a blessing to others (vs. 2). Abraham blessed people in his own time and blessed humanity by his seed Jesus Christ.
5. To bless those who bless him (vs. 3).
6. And curse those who curse him (vs. 3). God has not only blessed those who blessed Abraham, but He also blessed those who blessed the nation that sprang from his loins, Israel. On the other hand, those who cursed Israel (Babylon, Assyria, Rome, Germany, etc.) must suffer. Some have suffered already, but these promises will not be completely fulfilled until the future.
7. Bless all the families of the earth in him (vs. 3). The fulfillment of this is Christ himself, who blesses all those who believe on Him with salvation and who will also physically bless all who are in the millennium.

Though this covenant is unconditional it does not apply universally to everyone. Doctrinally, it only applies to the Hebrew race through Isaac and Jacob (Israel). Gentiles can only get in on it by receiving Abraham's promised Seed—Jesus Christ. Those who refuse to receive Him, Jew or Gentile, will be judged by Him.

Like the Noahic Covenant this covenant also has a sign, and it is circumcision (Gen. 17:9-14). Circumcision is a token of the promises God has made to Abraham and his seed, and anyone who refused or neglected to accept it was cut off from his people and the promises (excommunication). Circumcision was the only obligation Abraham and his people had under this covenant. If they performed it by faith, they had full access to all the promises. God again reconfirmed this covenant in Genenis chapter 15 after Abraham "believed in the Lord..." and asked for more details. After Abraham offered five offerings as God commanded, the Lord again affirmed the covenant and revealed how Abraham's seed would be a stranger in a land (Egypt) and afflicted for 400 years. God also revealed the boundaries of the land given to Abraham. Moreover, God promised all of this to Abraham while Abraham was asleep! This proves the covenant is unconditional. God reconfirmed the covenant again after Abraham passed his severe but revealing test of offering Isaac (Gen. 22:15-18).

Another significant thing about this covenant is it apparently has no ending. It goes beyond the Millennium and renovation of the earth and even past the New Heaven and New Earth. Therefore, the nation of Israel, governed by its Messiah and King, will still be in existence at the gate of eternity.

The dispensation that began with this covenant is called the Dispensation of Promise for obvious reasons. For the first time God has made promises to one group of people at the exclusion of all others. From the time of Abraham on in the Old Testament, the only way someone other than an Israelite could partake of the promises was to become an Israelite himself (Ruth, for example [Ruth 1:16]). Again, the only way now is to receive Jesus Christ. By some this dispensation is called the Dispensation of the Family because everything God had to say to man He said to this one family. The promises He made to Abraham He reconfirmed to his son Isaac, his grand-son Jacob, and then to Jacob's sons, the heads of the twelve tribes of Israel. The manner of behavior God expected in this dispensation is much like the previous except that He told Abraham to go to a certain land and stay there (Canaan).

Abraham obeyed in going to the land, but when a famine came and times got hard he fled into Egypt for food. He could not yet trust God enough to stay. This again shows the weakness and failure of man to live up to God's requirements. In every dispensation man in some way fails to keep God's word and consequently brings judgment upon himself.

Moreover, the character of the descendants of Abraham degenerated from that of Abraham. Even though Abraham was afraid and lied in Egypt about Sarah, Isaac seemed to lie more easily (Gen. 26:7). Jacob (meaning Deceiver or Supplanter) was even more blatant in sin. He lied, deceived, tricked, and schemed it appears without a second thought (Gen. 27:6-29). Likewise, his sons (with the exception of Joseph) were even more mixed up in vice and evil. From adultery with handmaids and harlots to murder and kidnapping (Gen. 34:25, 37:23-36, 38:12-18), they all seemed to think lightly of sin. The actions of everyone concerned, from Abraham on down, and the degeneration of the character of the family in each succeeding generation caused God to send Abraham's seed into Egypt and later into bondage. It was 430 years from the call of Abraham to the exodus from Egypt, the length of this dispensation.
 
RAIDER said:
Though this covenant is unconditional it does not apply universally to everyone. Doctrinally, it only applies to the Hebrew race through Isaac and Jacob (Israel). Gentiles can only get in on it by receiving Abraham's promised Seed—Jesus Christ. Those who refuse to receive Him, Jew or Gentile, will be judged by Him.

Here begins the damnable nature of dispensationalism. They ALL try to establish the fullfillment of God's promises to Abraham..... APART.... from those in Christ Jesus. Notice how subtly they talk of The Abrahamiac covenant application to the natural seed of Isaac and then Jacob?

Did they forget those Gentile saints of old.... they believe couldn't know anything about the promise of seed of Abraham... Jesus Christ? Why would they forget? Do they purposely ignore women such a Rahab and Ruth? Does it even matter to them?

If the covenant given to Abraham is fulfilled in anything other than the "Church of God".... then the Gospel is a lie.

It was 430 years from the call of Abraham to the exodus from Egypt, the length of this dispensation.

Really? If this covenant was Eternal and the promises Eternal.... Then how in the world do you claim this "dispensation" only lasted 430 years? Do you see the problem? On one hand you claim the eternal nature of the promises... and on the other.... you claim it "ends". Are you really that narrow mind? Really?

 
RAIDER said:
Excerpt #6

Rebellion at Babel

The primary responsibility of man in the Noahic Covenant was to "be fruitful and multiply and REPLENISH THE EARTH," but in this also he miserably failed. The earth's population did rapidly increase after the flood, but all the people stayed near an area later known as Babel. God wanted man to scatter and repopulate the whole earth, not remain in one area. The failure of man to do this brought upon him another judgment.
The descendants of Noah directly rebelled against the command to scatter and sought to stay united around a great city and tower in the plain of Shinar. In a few short years they also abandoned God in all their thoughts like those before the flood, and their greatest fear was not to displease God, but that they would be scattered. They thought safety was in numbers. It appears they built the city, with its tower, to act as a political, cultural, and religious center for them to gather around and become as a group, self-reliant. They thought they did not need any God and could "make the world a better place to live in" by themselves. God looked down and saw how they were one in language and purpose (what man says he strives for today), and how they were on the verge of making their imaginations real (likely with autos, airplanes, spacecraft, computers, or similar), and He decided to scatter them Himself.

God was not yet ready for man to advance in knowledge and technology as much as the people of Babel were capable of, so He did the simplest thing; He confounded their language. There were some vital lessons God wanted man to learn about himself and his Creator over the coming centuries before He would allow them to advance that far. Clearly, God is a segregator. The world at that time was determined to stay united and integrated, but God had other plans. The confounding of their language (certainly Hebrew) and resulting scattering was also a punishment for their disobedience. The different tongues made the respective groups unfamiliar with each other, and each language group became primarily occupied with getting and keeping territory, goods, and wealth from the other, now strange, groups. Building a one world empire was in the meanwhile forgotten. Most of the wars, famines, and other forms of suffering found throughout history are a direct result of the rebellion of the world at Babel.

The Dispensation of Human Government, which ran from Noah to Abraham, made man responsible for governing himself when he did wrong. God gave him very basic principles (listed above) to guide him in this, and man was required to keep them. Since man would not listen to his conscience and let it lead him to God, God made mankind as a whole responsible for punishing the sins of individuals and keeping iniquity in check. Of course, in this also man failed, but now he cannot come to God and say he wasn't given a chance to try! Instead of forming a government that was consistent with God and His commands, man developed one that was directly against him. As the one world, global, universal, United Nations, common market, Babel of today, the Babel of 4300 years ago was more concerned about unity and progress than about their sins and God.

Before we move on there is another covenant-like setup found in this dispensation between God and Noah's three sons (Gen. 9:20-29). After Noah heard the details of the above covenant, he planted a vineyard and became drunk from the wine it produced. While he was in this drunken state his son, Ham, came in unto him and saw his "nakedness." In other words Ham sodomized his father (Gen. 9:24; Lev. 18:6). When Noah recovered from his wine and realized what Ham had "done unto him," he cursed Ham's seed in the person of his son Canaan. He didn't curse Ham himself because God had previously blessed him (Gen. 9:1). Noah then continues to make a series of prophetic statements that may have been somewhat vague to his three sons (the fathers of the three races), but events that have occurred down through history since make them clearer to us.

1. Canaan (Ham's seed) is cursed to be a servant of his brethren (Shem and Japeth). Since the descendants of Ham moved south toward Africa, making him the father of the black race, this curse begins to fall into place. For millennia members of the black race have been slaves to other men.

2. Shem on the other hand is blessed. Noah said "blessed be the Lord God of Shem," and we learn later Shem is an ancestor of Abraham and the Lord Jesus Christ. God blessed the world with a Savior through Shem.

3. Japeth also is blessed, and he was to be enlarged and dwell in the former dwelling places (tents) of Shem. If at no other time, this has come to pass in the last 500 years. Thousands of Japethites (Europeans) crossed the Atlantic into North and South America, into dwelling places of Shemites.

These blessings and curse have come to pass in every detail. Shem is the religious race (every major religion came from him); Japeth is the worldly, materialistic race; and Canaan is their servant. Of course there are many individual exceptions to this, but racially they are consistent.
Canaan was Shem's servant, before he was wiped out, almost 3,000 years ago.

Anishinaabe

 
Excerpt #8


The Mosaic Covenant and The Dispensation of the Law

By the time Moses was born, the 75 people that went with Jacob into Egypt had grown into millions. The new king that "knew not Joseph" put them into heavy bondage and eventually the Israelites began to cry upon the Lord for deliverance. God heard their cry and sent them a deliverer from among their own—Moses. Since the self-governing of man in the dispensations of Conscience and Promise failed, God established a highly comprehensive and detailed dispensation where He could rule man Himself from a central place of worship.
After revealing Himself to Moses in the wilderness, God sent Moses back into Egypt to free his brethren from their slavery. With great signs and wonders He performed through Moses, God forced Israel's release and brought the people across the Red Sea to make a nation out of them as He promised to Abraham. On their way to the promised land (Canaan), God established His covenant with them at Mt. Sinai, and this time the covenant is completely conditional. That is, for God to continue to do His part, the Israelites had to continue to do theirs. The bulk of this covenant is called "the law," a detailed list of rules and regulations concerning nearly every aspect of life. No longer were they to be guided only by their conscience or the opinions of other men, God had given them very specific WRITTEN commands which were easily understood and could be consulted at any time.

In Exodus 19:5-6 God, through Moses, lays the covenant before the people and tells them what He will do for them "if" they obey His voice. The people of one accord reply "All that the Lord has spoken we will do" (Ex. 19:8) and the covenant is sealed. In the next chapter God gives them the "Ten Commandments," and in much of the rest of Exodus, nearly all of Leviticus, and a good portion of Numbers and Deuteronomy, He reveals more requirements. This covenant can be broken into three parts:

1. The Moral Law (Ex. 20: 1-26, the Ten Commandments, etc.).

2. The Civil (or Judicial) Law (Ex. 21:1-24:18). This was the precepts of the judicial system for the punishment of crimes and settlement of disputes.

3. The Ceremonial Law (Ex. 25:1-40:38, etc.). This was in essence their religious system and included all the details of sacrifice and worship (the tabernacle, priesthood, offerings, etc.).

This covenant also has a sign: the sabbath day—the seventh day of the week (Saturday [Ex. 31:13-17]).

Here, we must remind the reader that this covenant was only between God and the Israelites. No part of it applied to any Gentile then and neither does it now. The moral law of God found in the Ten Commandments is a reflection of God's nature and is profitable for anyone in any dispensation, but doctrinally as given in Exodus and Deuteronomy they are binding only on the Jews. All of the commandments, excluding the fifth (the sabbath), can be found in some form in the New Testament, thus making their message apply also to born again Christians, but as they are found in the Mosaic Covenant, they apply ONLY to Israel.

As we have said much of the Scripture wresting that goes on today is a result of people not properly dividing the Scriptures and forcing doctrines from one dispensational arrangement into another. The Sabbath, for instance, is one that is today heavily abused. God clearly states in Ex. 31:13-17 that the Sabbath is to and for the children of Israel alone and binding on no one else. Some think since it is found in the Ten Commandments it is an "eternal" law to everyone, but as mentioned above, no one else was ever commanded to keep it. In fact a born again Christian is not commanded to set apart any particular day for worship, not even the Lord's day (Sunday). He is free to meet on any day he esteems best (Rom. 14:5). Most believers usually meet on the Lord's day, however, by following the examples found in the New Testament (Acts 20:7, etc.). Again, when one tries to place a doctrine peculiar to one dispensation into another he will always end up with heresy.

The Dispensation of the Law lasted from the exodus out of Egypt until the cross (around 1500 years), and God kept his part of the covenant despite many failures of the Israelites to keep theirs. Just a short period of time after they promised to obey it, the Jews rebelled against the Lord, but God graciously gave them many more chances to obey. When they rebelled against Moses over the bitter water, God made the water sweet (Ex. 15:25). When they murmured about the lack of food, God gave them manna for 40 years (Ex. 16). When they became idolaters and worshipped the golden calf, clearly breaking the covenant, God again had grace and mercy on them though He had a mind to do otherwise (Ex. 32).

Over the years God was very long-suffering with Israel and overlooked many of their transgressions. When Moses died God was gracious and gave them another leader, Joshua. When he died God gave them judges to lead them. When they sought to be like the heathen and wanted a king, God warned them against it but nevertheless gave them Saul. After Saul came a man after His own heart, David. After David, God gave them His wisdom through Solomon, and on and on. God gave His people every advantage and opportunity to love obey and serve Him as He desired, but the Jews were a stiff-necked and rebellious people. With a pitiful few short periods of semi-obedience and loyalty to their credit, the Jews were usually characterized by rebellion, immorality, and idolatry.

Though God was long-suffering with Israel, He would not put up with their rebellion forever, and after almost 1000 years His patience ran out. In the meantime He sent numerous prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.) to warn them of what He was about to do if they didn't repent, but for the most part they either ignored them or persecuted them. God faithfully protected Israel from her enemies for centuries, but around 606 BC, because of their failure to return to Him, He let their enemies have them. The Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and carried the people into Babylon to again be slaves. Only after 70 years, after a new generation came along, did God allow them to return to Jerusalem and rebuild it under Ezra and Nehemiah. Though they rebuilt it with the purest of intentions, they again, over the next four centuries, degenerated and became so filled with unbelief, self-righteousness, and hatred that they did not even recognize their own promised Messiah when He walked among them (Jn. 1:10-11)! More than that they mercilessly persecuted and then crucified Him! So much for the humanistic notions there is "a spark of divinity in every man" or "man is basically good."

God has up to this point set up five different doctrinal arrangements with man, five different methods of testing and dealing with him, and man has miserably failed in every one!
 
RAIDER said:
Excerpt #8


The Mosaic Covenant and The Dispensation of the Law

By the time Moses was born, the 75 people that went with Jacob into Egypt had grown into millions. The new king that "knew not Joseph" put them into heavy bondage and eventually the Israelites began to cry upon the Lord for deliverance. God heard their cry and sent them a deliverer from among their own—Moses. Since the self-governing of man in the dispensations of Conscience and Promise failed, God established a highly comprehensive and detailed dispensation where He could rule man Himself from a central place of worship.
After revealing Himself to Moses in the wilderness, God sent Moses back into Egypt to free his brethren from their slavery. With great signs and wonders He performed through Moses, God forced Israel's release and brought the people across the Red Sea to make a nation out of them as He promised to Abraham. On their way to the promised land (Canaan), God established His covenant with them at Mt. Sinai, and this time the covenant is completely conditional. That is, for God to continue to do His part, the Israelites had to continue to do theirs. The bulk of this covenant is called "the law," a detailed list of rules and regulations concerning nearly every aspect of life. No longer were they to be guided only by their conscience or the opinions of other men, God had given them very specific WRITTEN commands which were easily understood and could be consulted at any time.

In Exodus 19:5-6 God, through Moses, lays the covenant before the people and tells them what He will do for them "if" they obey His voice. The people of one accord reply "All that the Lord has spoken we will do" (Ex. 19:8) and the covenant is sealed. In the next chapter God gives them the "Ten Commandments," and in much of the rest of Exodus, nearly all of Leviticus, and a good portion of Numbers and Deuteronomy, He reveals more requirements. This covenant can be broken into three parts:

1. The Moral Law (Ex. 20: 1-26, the Ten Commandments, etc.).

2. The Civil (or Judicial) Law (Ex. 21:1-24:18). This was the precepts of the judicial system for the punishment of crimes and settlement of disputes.

3. The Ceremonial Law (Ex. 25:1-40:38, etc.). This was in essence their religious system and included all the details of sacrifice and worship (the tabernacle, priesthood, offerings, etc.).

This covenant also has a sign: the sabbath day—the seventh day of the week (Saturday [Ex. 31:13-17]).

Here, we must remind the reader that this covenant was only between God and the Israelites. No part of it applied to any Gentile then and neither does it now. The moral law of God found in the Ten Commandments is a reflection of God's nature and is profitable for anyone in any dispensation, but doctrinally as given in Exodus and Deuteronomy they are binding only on the Jews. All of the commandments, excluding the fifth (the sabbath), can be found in some form in the New Testament, thus making their message apply also to born again Christians, but as they are found in the Mosaic Covenant, they apply ONLY to Israel.

As we have said much of the Scripture wresting that goes on today is a result of people not properly dividing the Scriptures and forcing doctrines from one dispensational arrangement into another. The Sabbath, for instance, is one that is today heavily abused. God clearly states in Ex. 31:13-17 that the Sabbath is to and for the children of Israel alone and binding on no one else. Some think since it is found in the Ten Commandments it is an "eternal" law to everyone, but as mentioned above, no one else was ever commanded to keep it. In fact a born again Christian is not commanded to set apart any particular day for worship, not even the Lord's day (Sunday). He is free to meet on any day he esteems best (Rom. 14:5). Most believers usually meet on the Lord's day, however, by following the examples found in the New Testament (Acts 20:7, etc.). Again, when one tries to place a doctrine peculiar to one dispensation into another he will always end up with heresy.

The Dispensation of the Law lasted from the exodus out of Egypt until the cross (around 1500 years), and God kept his part of the covenant despite many failures of the Israelites to keep theirs. Just a short period of time after they promised to obey it, the Jews rebelled against the Lord, but God graciously gave them many more chances to obey. When they rebelled against Moses over the bitter water, God made the water sweet (Ex. 15:25). When they murmured about the lack of food, God gave them manna for 40 years (Ex. 16). When they became idolaters and worshipped the golden calf, clearly breaking the covenant, God again had grace and mercy on them though He had a mind to do otherwise (Ex. 32).

Over the years God was very long-suffering with Israel and overlooked many of their transgressions. When Moses died God was gracious and gave them another leader, Joshua. When he died God gave them judges to lead them. When they sought to be like the heathen and wanted a king, God warned them against it but nevertheless gave them Saul. After Saul came a man after His own heart, David. After David, God gave them His wisdom through Solomon, and on and on. God gave His people every advantage and opportunity to love obey and serve Him as He desired, but the Jews were a stiff-necked and rebellious people. With a pitiful few short periods of semi-obedience and loyalty to their credit, the Jews were usually characterized by rebellion, immorality, and idolatry.

Though God was long-suffering with Israel, He would not put up with their rebellion forever, and after almost 1000 years His patience ran out. In the meantime He sent numerous prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.) to warn them of what He was about to do if they didn't repent, but for the most part they either ignored them or persecuted them. God faithfully protected Israel from her enemies for centuries, but around 606 BC, because of their failure to return to Him, He let their enemies have them. The Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and carried the people into Babylon to again be slaves. Only after 70 years, after a new generation came along, did God allow them to return to Jerusalem and rebuild it under Ezra and Nehemiah. Though they rebuilt it with the purest of intentions, they again, over the next four centuries, degenerated and became so filled with unbelief, self-righteousness, and hatred that they did not even recognize their own promised Messiah when He walked among them (Jn. 1:10-11)! More than that they mercilessly persecuted and then crucified Him! So much for the humanistic notions there is "a spark of divinity in every man" or "man is basically good."

God has up to this point set up five different doctrinal arrangements with man, five different methods of testing and dealing with him, and man has miserably failed in every one!

Are you just going to continue to spam the forum????

BY the way. There was no such divisions in the law. The law isn't "divided". Just show me one... Just one passage..... in all the Scriptures that uses the term "moral law" or "civil law" or "ceremonial law". Just once..... It doesn't exist. The law isn't "divided" into such distinctions.

There is no such terms. Nada. Its nothing but fabricated nonsense. Its amazing how you KJVOists complain about a "jot" and a "tittle" being changed..... but you have no problem at all changing it into what you want it to say by "dispensational" traditions.
 
Excerpt #9


The Davidic Covenant and The Dispensation of Grace

This covenant and dispensational arrangement is different from the others because the covenant is given nearly 1000 years before it and its accompanying dispensation go into effect. Instead of starting when it was first mentioned, this covenant is not fully in effect until David's seed comes along (Jesus Christ).

Once when Israel was at peace and David was at rest from his enemies, David wanted to do something for God and proposed building Him a permanent house (temple) to dwell in. Through Nathan the prophet God told David He did not yet want a house, but appreciated the thought (1 Ki. 8:18), and He then told David He was going to make a house out of HIM.

God made three promises to David in this unconditional covenant found in 2 Sam. 7:4-17:

1. That his house (posterity) would never cease (vs. 12-13).
2. That his throne will never be completely destroyed and continue forever (vs. 13, 16).
3. That his earthly kingdom will also continue forever through his promised seed (vs. 13, 16).

In some respects this covenant could be speaking of Solomon as the seed, but Solomon's reign ended in apostasy (1 Kings 11), thus another seed of David must be the ultimate fulfillment—the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is the only person who can possibly fulfill it. He is the seed of Adam, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and David, and he is the only person in history who fulfills the more than sixty other prophesies God had given concerning the "seed." Before Christ was born the angel Gabriel told Mary the son to be born of her was to be the "son of the highest" (God), the "son of David" (man), and He would reign on David's throne forever (Luke 1:30-33). This covenant, like the Abrahamic Covenant continues to the gate of eternity.

Since the fulfillment of this covenant is Jesus Christ, and God is going to keep all of His promises to David in Christ, the covenant did not come into effect until Christ was born. That no seed of David has reigned in Jerusalem since the Babylonian captivity has nothing to do with the fulfillment of this covenant. It is not until after Israel's full chastisement for rejecting Christ is completed (Tribulation) that Christ comes as a King to reign on David's throne (Millennium). Christ came the first time as a Servant and sacrificial Lamb; the second time He will come as a Warrior and King.

The dispensation ushered in by the Davidic Covenant is our present Dispensation of Grace. Again, that this dispensation is named grace does not mean that God's grace cannot be found in the other dispensations, only that it is more prevalent and visible in this one. God often had mercy and grace on many in the past (Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, etc.), but now He freely offers His saving grace to everyone through the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Technically, this dispensation does not begin with Christ's birth but with his death and resurrection. It extends from the cross to the calling up of all believers, dead or alive, at the rapture. (1 Thes. 4:13-18). In some ways this is a parenthetical dispensation because it is in the form of a mystery and sandwiched between the two Jewish dispensations of Law and the Millennium.

The subject of this dispensation is a group called "the church" or "the body of Christ." The Church is the mystery referred to in Eph. 3:3-9 and is so named because God had not revealed in the Old Testament that He was going to form such an organism, especially from both Jews and Gentiles. The New Testament tells us God's purpose in the Church is to gather a "people for His name" from all humanity, Jew and Gentile, in Jesus Christ to (among other things) become Christ's bride. "Whosoever will" can become a member of this living organism by simply repenting and by faith receiving the risen Jesus Christ into his heart. No works are required to obtain or keep this eternal salvation; all one must have is Jesus Christ in him. Christ has promised to freely come into and save all who will admit they are sinners, abandon all other means of salvation, and trust Him alone as Savior.

In this dispensation God is no longer dealing with man primarily as nations but as individuals. Every individual can have a personal relationship with God through the Lord Jesus Christ and he does not have to go through any priest or religious system to receive atonement for his sins. Israel, as a nation, has been placed on a "back burner" because of their blindness, but individual Jews can be saved just the same as Gentiles until this dispensation ends. The "Church of God" is a distinct body from both Jews and Gentiles and has many blessings these two groups don't enjoy. God has poured many extremely rich blessings upon the saved of this dispensation that He has not given to those of any other. Even those saved in future dispensations do not have many of the precious treasures the Body of Christ has now. For example:

1. The new birth (regeneration [Tit. 3:5, etc.]). There is no clear, biblical proof that the new birth is valid in any other dispensation (More on this later).
2. A completed atonement (described under the salvation doctrines propitiation and redemption [Heb. 9:12; 1 Jn. 2:2]). Until Christ's death salvation was "on credit."
3. Eternal and everlasting life that the believer cannot loose (described under the salvation doctrines justification, adoption, reconciliation, imputation, etc. [John 3:16, 5:24; etc.])
4. Salvation by faith alone, no works at all required to obtain or keep it (Eph 2:8-9; etc.).
5. The indwelling Holy Spirit who comforts, empowers, and seals believers (Eph. 4:30).
6. A position in Christ's Body and Bride (Eph. 5:30-32).
7. The promise of a supernatural body like Christ's resurrection body (Phil. 3:21).
8. A future mansion in the New Jerusalem (John 14:1-3).

Clearly, born again Christians, by no value of their own, have been given more blessings and promises than any other group of saved people, all by the good pleasure and pure grace of God. Why God selected this group to shower these amazing privileges on is fully known only by Him, but how much more should we who are saved and partake of them obey God's wishes with love and thanksgiving?

The obligation of believers during this dispensation is simple and direct. Each believer is to:

1. Evangelize by preaching the gospel of the grace of God to every creature (Matt. 28:19-20; Mark 16:15).
2. Be filled with the Holy Spirit and let Him direct his every thought and action (Gal. 5:16; Eph.5:18).
3. Present himself as a living sacrifice for God's service and separate himself from the world (Rom. 12:1-2).

Whether the believer obeys or disobeys these duties has nothing to do with his salvation, but disobedience will cost him rewards and crowns at the Judgment Seat of Christ where every believer will give account of himself to God (Rom. 14:10).

Even with the multitude of great blessings and privileges God has showered upon believers in Christ, this dispensation still ends in failure. Their failure was hinted at by Christ before the cross. He said when He returned the times would then be like the days of Noah thousands of years earlier (Matt. 24:37-39), characterized by unrestrained rebellion, wickedness, and apostasy. With all God has given believers in this present dispensation, they have again willingly refused to consistently do as He commanded.

Soon Christ will return and secretly take away all the Christians to Heaven and judgment and let the world continue, then even faster, toward its destiny of destruction.
 
christundivided said:
Are you just going to continue to spam the forum????

Lighten up, Nancy.  I hope people are finding these excerpts interesting.  So far I don't believe there are a lot of things that a dispensationalist or a non-dispensationalist would disagree on.  The majority of the excerpts are basic Bible knowledge.
 
RAIDER said:
christundivided said:
Are you just going to continue to spam the forum????

Lighten up, Nancy.  I hope people are finding these excerpts interesting.  So far I don't believe there are a lot of things that a dispensationalist or a non-dispensationalist would disagree on.  The majority of the excerpts are basic Bible knowledge.

Listen up "Waldo"... You are not discussing anything about what you're posting. Thus... You are SPAMMING the forum.

Here.... I'll do it for you...

http://www.biblebelievers.com/Dispen1b.htm#The%20Davidic%20Covenant

Just so everyone knows.... here is where Raider is getting this crap from.....

http://www.biblebelievers.com/

Just some good old boys like "Johnny" the baptist. The born again "devil" fighter........ You know.... Those people that believe the only way you'll ever be right with God is to return to living like people did in the 30's and 40's....

Some good old "stuff" from those men that love to get honorary "doctorate" degrees from baptist theological startup colleges in the Philippines.
 
christundivided said:
RAIDER said:
christundivided said:
Are you just going to continue to spam the forum????

Lighten up, Nancy.  I hope people are finding these excerpts interesting.  So far I don't believe there are a lot of things that a dispensationalist or a non-dispensationalist would disagree on.  The majority of the excerpts are basic Bible knowledge.

Listen up "Waldo"... You are not discussing anything about what you're posting. Thus... You are SPAMMING the forum.

Here.... I'll do it for you...

http://www.biblebelievers.com/Dispen1b.htm#The%20Davidic%20Covenant

Just so everyone knows.... here is where Raider is getting this crap from.....

http://www.biblebelievers.com/

Just some good old boys like "Johnny" the baptist. The born again "devil" fighter........ You know.... Those people that believe the only way you'll ever be right with God is to return to living like people did in the 30's and 40's....

Some good old "stuff" from those men that love to get honorary "doctorate" degrees from baptist theological startup colleges in the Philippines.

I am posting portions of this in case there is reason for discussion.  So far a few people have commented.  Other than you and your caustic attitude there have been very few disagreements.  I know you don't think I am being honest when I say I am not a dispensationalist. I am seeing some things that make sense from their point of view.  I am posting on this forum to get other's opinions, pro or con.

Is it spamming because I don't want to respond to your every whim?  You have had a few good points that have caused me to think, but most of the time you are nitpicking with a horrible attitude.  If I start answering your posts I will soon be calling you names like "loudmouth, jerk, and idiot".  I'm sure they are common words you have been called on the FFF.  I choose not to do so.   
 
RAIDER said:
Is it spamming because I don't want to respond to your every whim?  You have had a few good points that have caused me to think, but most of the time you are nitpicking with a horrible attitude.  If I start answering your posts I will soon be calling you names like "loudmouth, jerk, and idiot".  I'm sure they are common words you have been called on the FFF.  I choose not to do so. 

Nitpicking? Really? Are you really saying I'm just being "nitpicky"? I will say that is a common argument that comes from silly little baptist preachers that can't defend anything they say.

Have you heard the term "little foxes".... or a "little leaven"....??

I haven't called you a loud mouth, jerk or idiot. Not once. I have said such beliefs are moronic. If that hurts your feelings then so be it. I can't help but believe you're just one of those people that can't defend anything they say. Thus... you really don't have much to say about it at all.

Keep on spamming. At least everyone now knows where you're getting this crap from. You've really found an "impeccable" source. If only Billy Sunday was around to see it....

 
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