Do you dress up for church?

[Castor Muscular]

Are you saying there is no difference in corporate worship and our everyday lives?

There's a difference.  In one case, you're worshiping by yourself.  In another, you're worshiping with others.  What about this difference makes you think you are showing more reverence to God by dressing up when you are with others? 

 

[ALAYMAN]

There's a difference.  In one case, you're worshiping by yourself.  In another, you're worshiping with others.  What about this difference makes you think you are showing more reverence to God by dressing up when you are with others?

Because, from a practical perspective,  the nature of corporate worship lends itself to a different attitude and degree of focus than when I might be slinging poop in the pigpen.  And from a theological perspective it is not without precedent that we adorn ourselves respectfully when in the mode of formal corporate worship.

 

[subllibrm]

To infer that anyone said such a thing is to miss the point entirely or is in itself a bit naive.

James wrote on this subject. God makes it clear that He is less concerned about what is worn to church than our reaction/attitude toward what is worn to church by others.

James wrote about people who distinguish themselves intentionally in order to create a segregated class system based on socio-economic accoutriments.  What is it that you think I said that makes the claim that we ought to dress up in order to create a clique within the church and to show who has the money to show off their status?

While the example given by James did speak to the socio-separation the larger point is that God wants our hearts not our wardrobe choices. You say that dress can speak and I agree. What I do not see is where He expects us to busy ourselves with interpreting their "message" if one even exists.

I have a friend that recently left our church. High on his list of things we didn't "do right" was allowing our board chairman to wear jeans while leading music. The weird conclusion that he has come to is that we are judgmental hypocrites. How he came to the conclusion he did regarding appropriate dress I do not know but it did not come from scripture and application against his attitude can be made from the passage in James.

Note the number of posts where someone said they "were taught" growing up to dress such or so. I did not see any scriptural support just a lot of family tradition.

 

[Castor Muscular]

There's a difference.  In one case, you're worshiping by yourself.  In another, you're worshiping with others.  What about this difference makes you think you are showing more reverence to God by dressing up when you are with others?

Because, from a practical perspective,  the nature of corporate worship lends itself to a different attitude and degree of focus than when I might be slinging poop in the pigpen. 

Meaningless straw man.

And from a theological perspective it is not without precedent that we adorn ourselves respectfully when in the mode of formal corporate worship.

And what theological perspective is that?  Scripture, please?

 

[subllibrm]

  Starting in the 19th century, people started dressing up to be recognized as non-peasant status.

And what if a person "dresses up" for something other than nefarious or ill-conceived motives?

You are the one who noted that how one dresses conveys a message so I guess they run the risk of being misinterpreted.

 

[ALAYMAN]

sub, you had said...

James wrote on this subject. God makes it clear that He is less concerned about what is worn to church than our reaction/attitude toward what is worn to church by others.

and I replied....

James wrote about people who distinguish themselves intentionally in order to create a segregated class system based on socio-economic accoutriments.  What is it that you think I said that makes the claim that we ought to dress up in order to create a clique within the church and to show who has the money to show off their status?

and finally you said...


While the example given by James did speak to the socio-separation the larger point is that God wants our hearts not our wardrobe choices. You say that dress can speak and I agree. What I do not see is where He expects us to busy ourselves with interpreting their "message" if one even exists.

The larger point is that in the assembly God is to receive the preimmenence, and all the posturing or "playing church" by catering to people because of their power and privilege.  It is not the point of the passage to tell people to dress down and come casual as you want.  That was my only point.

I have a friend that recently left our church. High on his list of things we didn't "do right" was allowing our board chairman to wear jeans while leading music. The weird conclusion that he has come to is that we are judgmental hypocrites. How he came to the conclusion he did regarding appropriate dress I do not know but it did not come from scripture and application against his attitude can be made from the passage in James.

Note the number of posts where someone said they "were taught" growing up to dress such or so. I did not see any scriptural support just a lot of family tradition.

Yeah, that dude (and those people) was wack.

 

[Castor Muscular]

The larger point is that in the assembly God is to receive the preimmenence, and all the posturing or "playing church" by catering to people because of their power and privilege.  It is not the point of the passage to tell people to dress down and come casual as you want.  That was my only point.

So out of the assembly God is not to receive preeminence? 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Castor Muscular]And what theological perspective is that?  Scripture, please?[/quote]

Jewish high priest? Jesus at His parousia?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Meaningless straw man.

No, it's not.  The things of everyday life most certainly may be necessary, but at the same time can be very distracting for all intents and purposes of worship.

And what theological perspective is that?  Scripture, please?

Genesis 35:2  Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Castor Muscular]And what theological perspective is that?  Scripture, please?

Jewish high priest? Jesus at His parousia?
[/quote]

Is this some of that "speaking words of encouragement" with the lovely Christlike attitude that you just hypocritically spoke of?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Castor Muscular]And what theological perspective is that?  Scripture, please?

Jewish high priest? Jesus at His parousia?

Is this some of that "speaking words of encouragement" with the lovely Christlike attitude that you just hypocritically spoke of?[/quote]

We can check:

Was it written with malice?
To cause stife?
In anger?
Dis-respectfully?
Belittling?
Hurtful?
Judgmental?
Primarily to elevate the one writing?
Primarily to tear down another individual?

 

[Castor Muscular]

Meaningless straw man.

No, it's not.  The things of everyday life most certainly may be necessary, but at the same time can be very distracting for all intents and purposes of worship.

Yes it is.  I already pointed out that until the 19th century, people generally had two sets of clothes.  One set was used for working and getting dirty.  The other set was for everyday social use.  People only started dressing up for class differentiation when the middle class emerged and some people could afford it. 

So "dressing up" for church BEGAN as class differentiation.  Once pretty much everyone could dress up, then it lost its differentiating power, and people redefined it as "reverence".  But that still doesn't answer the question -- now that you dress up for reverence -- why?  What about that time slot on Sunday morning makes dressing up more reverent to God than the other 165 hours?  And do you really think God gives two whits what your clothes look like? 

Genesis 35:2  Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:

Really?  You think this is meant to be instructions for how to dress when you go to a church?  The quote is even totally without context, and all he says is "Change your garments".  Maybe they were dirty.  He didn't tell them to put on their Sunday best. 

 

[subllibrm]

sub, you had said...

James wrote on this subject. God makes it clear that He is less concerned about what is worn to church than our reaction/attitude toward what is worn to church by others.

and I replied....

James wrote about people who distinguish themselves intentionally in order to create a segregated class system based on socio-economic accoutriments.  What is it that you think I said that makes the claim that we ought to dress up in order to create a clique within the church and to show who has the money to show off their status?

and finally you said...


While the example given by James did speak to the socio-separation the larger point is that God wants our hearts not our wardrobe choices. You say that dress can speak and I agree. What I do not see is where He expects us to busy ourselves with interpreting their "message" if one even exists.

The larger point is that in the assembly God is to receive the preimmenence, and all the posturing or "playing church" by catering to people because of their power and privilege.  It is not the point of the passage to tell people to dress down and come casual as you want.  That was my only point.

I have a friend that recently left our church. High on his list of things we didn't "do right" was allowing our board chairman to wear jeans while leading music. The weird conclusion that he has come to is that we are judgmental hypocrites. How he came to the conclusion he did regarding appropriate dress I do not know but it did not come from scripture and application against his attitude can be made from the passage in James.

Note the number of posts where someone said they "were taught" growing up to dress such or so. I did not see any scriptural support just a lot of family tradition.

Yeah, that dude (and those people) was wack.

Which of course is not how I applied the passage. The takeaway is that God loves and values every person in the congregation. He is not basing that value upon their wardrobe (posh or rough). We are to have the mind of Christ. James is giving us an example of where our mind is liable to part ways with that of Christ. If we are there to meet with Him then we should not be focused on Harry and his bell bottoms.

FWIW wear what you want, I'm pretty sure I won't notice unless it's a tux or a gownless evening strap.

 

[subllibrm]

Genesis 35:2  Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:

Not a hill I would die on but I always took this as an act of repentance. I suppose you could make a strong case for getting up early on Sunday morning, tossing out the idols that have re-accumulated through the week, taking a bath, getting dressed and going to church. But it still doesn't tell us what clothes to change into.

 

[kaba]

This answer might not be accepted by all, but oh well, it is what I believe and I am happy with it. I do it to show respect  to the Lord.

You are in the presence of the Lord 24/7, and have access to God all that time.  There's nothing special about the church building.  God doesn't live there and wait for you to show up and see what you wear for 3 hours.  Aren't you inclined to show respect to the Lord the other 165 hours of the week? 

I'm not trying to be a smart-butt or mean -- just trying to get the point across that we have a mistaken idea of what "church" is.

You are not being mean.  I am in the presence of the Lord 24/7 and do have access to him at all times-I agree. And I dont worship the church building, while I appreciate having a building to meet in. There is a time and a place for everything. I believe when I attend church, I show my respect to the Lord by dressing up.
If I were to meet the teachers at my childrens school, I would wear clean clothes, smell good, comb my hair. Why would I not want to "clean up" for my Lord and Savior?
But your real argument isnt about what someone wears to church though, is it?

 

[Castor Muscular]

If I were to meet the teachers at my childrens school, I would wear clean clothes, smell good, comb my hair. Why would I not want to "clean up" for my Lord and Savior?

The teachers are at the school.  That's where you go to see them.  And this is a secular relationship where outward impressions matter.

Your Lord and Savior does not live only at the church building.  You don't need to go there to see him.  You have access to our Lord 24/7.  And you don't have to worry about what you look or smell like when you see him. 

So why do you dress up as if it IS where he lives, and that you have to impress him when you go there?  I can see taking a shower, which most people do daily, so you don't offend other people with your stink.  LOL... but you know that's not what I'm talking about. 

This is what the modern church has done to us.  It has scrambled what it means to be a member of the body of Christ. 

But your real argument isnt about what someone wears to church though, is it?

No, it's not.  But it's related. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Castor Muscular][quote author=kaba]
But your real argument isnt about what someone wears to church though, is it?
[/quote]

No, it's not.  But it's related. [/quote]

My guess would be his argument is (primarily) with how many people have redefined church and, by extension (or as a result of?), how they have also created a false sacred/secular divide that is routinely condemned in Scripture.

 

[subllibrm]

If I were to meet the teachers at my childrens school, I would wear clean clothes, smell good, comb my hair. Why would I not want to "clean up" for my Lord and Savior?

Two thoughts come to mind. First is that what you describe for the teacher meeting sounds like 99.99% of what we all do on Sunday.

I know this is not your argument but when Castor is trying to use the idea of dressing up to make his point, red herrings and straw-men come flying out of no where. One of which is the idea that the opposite to dressing up is going to church right after mucking the barn and not taking your boots off or some other absurd postulation.

Second, we really can't "clean up" for the Lord anyway. That fresh scrubbed feeling and smell of hygiene products does nothing to change what we are able to present to the Lord in worship.

Again, I am not pointing these arguments at you. Your post just gave me helpful framework to try to make my thoughts (hopefully) clearer.

 

[kaba]

Thats not what I was trying to say. My point was, if I was going to dress up for a meeting with my childrens teacher, why not show the same respect and dress up to go to church on Sunday.  When I see my kids teach, I usually wear capris and a top, when I go to church I wear a dress.

I understand the argument he is trying to make behind the bush . You dont have to go to a church building to have church. He is more for home church or small gatherings. I happen to love my large church I go to, and what I wear to church, so I guess no real reason to post, not going to change my mind, was just responding to the thread if I dressed up to church.

Im not trying to clean up for the Lord to admire me! I want the people next to me to being able to breathe.

I have no argument with Castor. He can believe what he wants and I can believe what I want. We have many walks of life in our church.  And judging someone by how they dress is not something that is done.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The come as you are crowd judging the Sunday best crowd!
Oh! The irony!