Do you dress up for church?

[Recovering IFB]

Recovering IFB:
Do you think God favors those who come dressed in suits and looks down on those who come in jeans? Does God look at outward appearances? I think the center of worship is Jesus and if we only focus on praise and worship of Him, then everything else is a dog and pony show.

Speaking of a straw man argument....

No, he's nailed it,  I believe God only favors those who wear 3-piece suits with cuff-links,  and that the only ting that matters is our finely arrayed garments.  When we come together it ought to be a pagent to show off our duds, and Jesus should take a back stage.  That's what I've said from the beginning, if you've paid any attention at all.

Actually I wasn't, have you been talking to my wife? You sound like her

 

[ALAYMAN]

Actually I wasn't, have you been talking to my wife? You sound like her

Do you avoid her questions as adeptly too?

 

[Recovering IFB]

Actually I wasn't, have you been talking to my wife? You sound like her

Do you avoid her questions as adeptly too?

Only when she is being irrational.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Actually I wasn't, have you been talking to my wife? You sound like her

Do you avoid her questions as adeptly too?

Only when she is being irrational.

I bet you say that to all the boys.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?[/quote]

Because the principle being conveyed is 'don't intentionally draw attention to yourself' and showing up looking like a hobo would violate this principle?

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Because the principle being conveyed is 'don't intentionally draw attention to yourself' and showing up looking like a hobo would violate this principle?
[/quote]

So the culture dictates and supercedes worship, and hobos need not apply.  Gotcha.


And what Scripture have the "come as you are" folks cited which makes the claim you allege?

 

[Castor Muscular]

And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Out of respect for the people who'd have to smell you.  It has nothing to do with God. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Out of respect for the people who'd have to smell you.  It has nothing to do with God.

Doesn't it strike you as uber-ironic to show respect to humans that you don't afford to the Creator?

 

[Recovering IFB]

Actually I wasn't, have you been talking to my wife? You sound like her

Do you avoid her questions as adeptly too?

Only when she is being irrational.

I bet you say that to all the boys.

Only you <3 <3

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Because the principle being conveyed is 'don't intentionally draw attention to yourself' and showing up looking like a hobo would violate this principle?

So the culture dictates and supercedes worship, and hobos need not apply.  Gotcha.


And what Scripture have the "come as you are" folks cited which makes the claim you allege?[/quote]

The legitimate hobo is not intentionally drawing attention to himself...

And worship is more than something that only happens in a church building. *shudder*

 

[rsc2a]

And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Out of respect for the people who'd have to smell you.  It has nothing to do with God.

Doesn't it strike you as uber-ironic to show respect to humans that you don't afford to the Creator?

God sees me sitting on the toilet. I don't think a wrinkled shirt is going to bother Him all that much.

 

[Castor Muscular]

And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Out of respect for the people who'd have to smell you.  It has nothing to do with God.

Doesn't it strike you as uber-ironic to show respect to humans that you don't afford to the Creator?

If the Creator was human and capable of being offended by my smell, then yes, it would be ironic.  But my Creator doesn't give a crap about what I wear or how I smell, and he doesn't live in a building called a church, where I have to dress differently than I would anywhere else.  Your Creator may be different.  I have no idea.  But it sounds like it.  Yours obviously needs to be revered with good clothes, but doesn't need the reverence of good clothes when you worship alone.  Only when you're at a church building where other people can see you. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

The legitimate hobo is not intentionally drawing attention to himself...

And maybe the stinky unkempt persons motivation is not to draw attention either, but you've subjetively added unnecessary requirements to restrict such a one.  I guess every person has standards, at some level.

And worship is more than something that only happens in a church building. *shudder*

Speaking of idiotic strawmen.

 

[Castor Muscular]

The legitimate hobo is not intentionally drawing attention to himself...

And maybe the stinky unkempt persons motivation is not to draw attention either, but you've subjetively added unnecessary requirements to restrict such a one.  I guess every person has standards, at some level.

Then I should amend my comment to say, if he has a choice, I think he should respect others by trying not to stink.  Again, that has nothing to do with God.  If he doesn't have a choice, then he's welcome as he is.  Better to assemble stinky than not assemble. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

And if the "come as you are folks" are correct in their claim that God only cares about the heart, not what you have on, then why would it be inappropriate to assemble in dirty stinky unkempt clothes?

Out of respect for the people who'd have to smell you.  It has nothing to do with God.

Doesn't it strike you as uber-ironic to show respect to humans that you don't afford to the Creator?

If the Creator was human and capable of being offended by my smell, then yes, it would be ironic.  But my Creator doesn't give a crap about what I wear or how I smell, and he doesn't live in a building called a church, where I have to dress differently than I would anywhere else.  Your Creator may be different.  I have no idea.  But it sounds like it.  Yours obviously needs to be revered with good clothes, but doesn't need the reverence of good clothes when you worship alone.  Only when you're at a church building where other people can see you.

Your attitude, as Aleshanee said, smacks of one who judges others for having differing scruples than you.  I've given you some introductory thoughts (held by many other pious Christians from an wide array of Chrisitanity) about reasons for treating corporate worship as different than going to take a dump, but maybe you and rsc2a simply view the two as being virtually synonymous.  Says a lot about your view of worship IMHO.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Then I should amend my comment to say, if he has a choice, I think he should respect others by trying not to stink.  Again, that has nothing to do with God.  If he doesn't have a choice, then he's welcome as he is.  Better to assemble stinky than not assemble.

Maybe his heart is more concerned about focusing on God than hygiene, and he chooses to live his life in such a way that hygiene don't rank.  In such a scenario you've added your preference and appear to elevate it to near-dogma.  We both have standards, subjective as they may be.

 

[rsc2a]

The legitimate hobo is not intentionally drawing attention to himself...

And maybe the stinky unkempt persons motivation is not to draw attention either, but you've subjetively added unnecessary requirements to restrict such a one.  I guess every person has standards, at some level.

Actually, I could care less whether the person smells like a sewer, a florist shop, is in board shorts, or a tux. You won't see me restricting them (although I would lovingly instruct/inform them about normative expectations and self-seeking attention if/once I felt that they were in a mature enough position to understand the significance).

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

And worship is more than something that only happens in a church building. *shudder*

Speaking of idiotic strawmen.[/quote]

It's nothing that has been said, but the idea that we go to church to "meet God" has definitely been implicitly displayed.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Actually, I could care less whether the person smells like a sewer, a florist shop, is in board shorts, or a tux. You won't see me restricting them (although I would lovingly instruct/inform them about normative expectations and self-seeking attention if/once I felt that they were in a mature enough position to understand the significance).

Maybe you should just worship God yourself and leave others to do their own thing, not subjecting them to your whims of cultural hygiene.

And worship is more than something that only happens in a church building. *shudder*

It's nothing that has been said, but the idea that we go to church to "meet God" has definitely been implicitly displayed.

Notice that word in red above?  It demonstrates the absurdity and intellectual dishonesty of your own words.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Your attitude, as Aleshanee said, smacks of one who judges others for having differing scruples than you.  I've given you some introductory thoughts (held by many other pious Christians from an wide array of Chrisitanity) about reasons for treating corporate worship as different than going to take a dump, but maybe you and rsc2a simply view the two as being virtually synonymous.  Says a lot about your view of worship IMHO.[/quote]

You cited one verse about a narrative and turned it into a commandment, then cited one commentator who himself comes from particular cultural place and made that your entire argument. I have cited a command that is actually a command where the Scripture writer explicitly states that one shouldn't be trying to draw attention to themselves.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Maybe his heart is more concerned about focusing on God than hygiene, and he chooses to live his life in such a way that hygiene don't rank.  In such a scenario you've added your preference and appear to elevate it to near-dogma.  We both have standards, subjective as they may be.
[/quote]

Actually, then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all...

...except that if pointing out the distraction his hygiene caused resulted in him declaring things must be his way (i.e. no hygiene), then the issue isn't about how he ranks hygiene and God but how he ranks his own importance vs that of others.

(And, many aspects of hygiene are extremely cultural. I've been around some people who absolutely reek, and in corporate settings no less, and everyone was fine with it. It was acceptable at the time with that particular group of people.)

 

[prophet]

Heading? I know where it started...the traditional church is wrong, pastors are a false concept and the laity a.k.a. peons are just dumb sheep.

No, but close.

The current traditions are wrong, and have pagan origins.

The pastor and sermon as the focal point of the church is a false concept, also taken from pagan practices (secular professional rhetoric and paid orators). 

And the current traditional church treats the body of Christ like dumb sheep who are expected to sing and then sit, shut up, and listen for 30 minutes to an hour, after which they can go back to talking to each other about football.

Most of the time your bitterness causes me to stand back a step.  In this thread, however, you have revealed that your cause began as a just cause.  Your observations are not wrong, your take is not skewed.  And I like the 'sound' of your assembling. 
  I have planted churches for 17 years.  The last one meets in a manner very similiar to the one you described. I don't 'oversee' it, I laid hands on the man who I believed God told me too, and I call him once in a while, to chat.  They meet for prayer, study a passage, sing a fav. song, and go.  They spend a lot of time with each other in their daily lives, and the guide (pastor), always knows of their needs.  All are equal, friends, lovers of God.  They are in God's hand  and I rejoice for them.
  We got our traditions from the Great Whore, for the most part, and she adopted them from the pagans which she enslaved.  Would to God we would see this, but, alas...there must be a falling away and then comes the man of sin.

Anishinabe