Does God Hold Us Accountable for Voting?

[aleshanee]

What is meant by Romans 13? Are you saying we should follow the governing authority? I don’t think I’ve ever really heard anyone talk much about it.

no that;s not what i;m saying at all....... romans 13 is not telling us God has ordained a government over us which has then turned around and declared God does not exist.. or that we should blindly follow such a government and never question it..... ... the authority described in romans 13 is doing the work of God... that does not sound like our government or any civil government i know of..

my contention here was with those who claim that by questioning whether or not the 2020 election was stolen we are somehow violating romans 13.... i think they have once again misapplied scripture for their own purposes....

and i was doing other things here at home while thinking of the best way to word my answer to your question in better detail .... ...when i saw what ekklesian wrote.... what he wrote actually says it very well.......

 

[aleshanee]

Romans 13 says "every soul" is subject to the "higher powers." Even the Emperor, is subject to the law of God. Paul concluded that honor should be rendered to "whom it is due."

I would also point out that Paul also said in that chapter that rulers are "not a terror to good works." Therefore, those who are a terror to good works, are not rulers, and are not due any allegience or honor.

And if it is in the power of Christians to bring Caesar to justice, it is their holy duty to do so.

i agree.... i think what you wrote says it very well......

 

[aleshanee]

I capitalize to make emphasis upon what I am stating so that salient points do not fall by the wayside. They are my opinions and you may take them for what you will. You should really look up the matter of "Lesser Magistrates" and examine the matter for yourself as this does have a good bit to do with the thought process of many who ultimately chose to fight with the colonialists against England. This would also play into whether I personally would choose to take sides and take up arms or whatever. I am not expecting you to just "Swallow" and trust everything I am saying. No disrespect was intended and I apologize if it came across as if I was. I also do not expect you to just go along with my "Interpretation" of scripture nor do I care to argue with you unless you are the one pressing the matter but even then, I hope you would understand that I do care and that good people can agree to disagree. Yes, I am emphatic and perhaps I sound a little "Authoritative" but I tend to be that way if I believe I am right and am standing upon the authority of scripture. Sorry if you feel like I am "preaching" and perhaps I am. It should never be about "You" or "Me" though. We should both value TRUTH (emphasizing this because this point is of the utmost importance, not because I am "shouting" at you) and the truth is something we should both diligently pursue.

Now, my main point regarding any if not all of this is that we really need to keep our eyes upon Christ and upon the Word of God! I am sorry but I have never been so embarrassed at the behavior of fellow Christians and fellow Conservatives as I was regarding the January 6 debacle! I believe that much of this was likely "staged" especially with the "Shaman" and those who were running around inside the Capitol Building but a good number had told me personally that they were ready to do their "Patriotic Duty" and I will leave it to your imagination to determine what this may be.

i agree.... we should keep our eyes on Christ... and haven;t i have said many times.... from the very night of the january 6 riot and on.... that the capitol riot was a criminal act?... a horendous foolish mistake that would not only haunt republicans for decades to come - but that it would also undermine and destroy any chance trump had of investigating the potential election fraud many of us believe happened?.... ..all it did was give democrats exactly what they wanted.... images of republicans acting the same way democrats do.... ...

and i have never said anything different from that concerning the events of that day...... so why the lecture on it?..... and how does romans 13 come into play concerning anything i wrote on this subject?..... i am saying that since God allowed us to have the right to vote and to choose our own leaders we have a duty to use that right wisely.... and that if we fail to do so He might hold us accountable by allowing us to suffer the ill effects of our own bad decisions......... personally i don;t see how that implied i wasn;t keeping my eyes on Christ..... or how it prompted anything else you wrote back to me in the form of rebuttal or correction at all... .. . unless it;s simply that you like to come off as an authorative expert in all things and thought you saw an opportunity....

* edit... and while we are on this subject..... aren;t you the one who said you would have no problems shooting at u.n. soldiers if the came onto u.s. soil?...... you do realize ..don;t you?.. that as one of the members nations with veto power the u.n troops would not even be on u.s. soil unless our own government invited them?... .. ..so...just one more reason i say spare me the lecture.. .unlike you, i don;t know anybody who was a part of jan6.. and i would disassociate myself from the if i did.... i was 6 thousand miles away when all that happened.... and have never condoned it....

but other than that.... from what i can see... we are mostly in agreement on rest of this issue... with the possible exception that i do not believe God ordains or establishes corrupt governments... i hope that you do not believe that either... . but if you are saying that somehow romans 13 says He does... or that romans 13 somehow applies to what has happened in our own government over the past few years.. then we have a difference in beliefs and opinions that cannot be reconciled... .. no matter how authoritatively sounding you attempt to put your counter argument into words..... and just so you know - while it might simply be a case of you tending to be that way... i simply tend to reject and ignore arguments from those who are.... with very few exceptions... and all of those live here on the same island or in the same house with me.....

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

In reflection, from a church point of view, I guess in the few times in my life that I’ve heard the subject matter mentioned in church, I’ve heard that Christians should follow the laws and direction of the government in place unless those orders/laws directly contradict the Scriptures. I can only recall hearing this a few times ever in church, but then again, America is quickly changing and in the past, maybe it wasn’t seen as a necessary message to congregations, and nowadays, it might become in one as society devolves.

 

[aleshanee]

In reflection, from a church point of view, I guess in the few times in my life that I’ve heard the subject matter mentioned in church, I’ve heard that Christians should follow the laws and direction of the government in place unless those orders/laws directly contradict the Scriptures. I can only recall hearing this a few times ever in church, but then again, America is quickly changing and in the past, maybe it wasn’t seen as a necessary message to congregations, and nowadays, it might become in one as society devolves.

that;s not the only scripture that gets abused .. taken completely out of context.... and misapplied to try and put a guilt trip on christians where politics is concerned....

2nd chronicles 7-14 is another one.......

"if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

that scripture is talking about a famine and about God healing the land....(the earth itself).... and making the ground productive again..... but how many times have fundamentalist preachers tried to use it to imply that political upheaval and corruption within the government...and even rampant liberalism in the government, is the fault of christians who are not doing all they should..or being all they can be for God... .

i was told by someone who grew up in baptist fundamentalism that guilt trips were a common tool used to control and influence members of the church.... and that those 2 scriptures... romans 13... 2nd chronicles 7-14.... plus several others like them... were pulled out of context frequently to help pack the guilt trip baggage....

i was not raised in fundamentalism... but i grew up being taught exactly what you described.... that we should obey the laws of both God and the government until the governments law contradicts the laws of God.... and then we obey God.. always.... the church i went to actually did teach that - right up until the moment it decided to make obama their god and started obeying him instead of scripture..... i don;t know what they teach now because i left that church immediately... .but i still look back and miss the way it used to be there....

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

that;s not the only scripture that gets abused .. taken completely out of context.... and misapplied to try and put a guilt trip on christians where politics is concerned....

2nd chronicles 7-14 is another one.......

"if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

that scripture is talking about a famine and about God healing the land....(the earth itself).... and making the ground productive again..... but how many times have fundamentalist preachers tried to use it to imply that political upheaval and corruption within the government...and even rampant liberalism in the government, is the fault of christians who are not doing all they should..or being all they can be for God... .

i was told by someone who grew up in baptist fundamentalism that guilt trips were a common tool used to control and influence members of the church.... and that those 2 scriptures... romans 13... 2nd chronicles 7-14.... plus several others like them... were pulled out of context frequently to help pack the guilt trip baggage....

i was not raised in fundamentalism... but i grew up being taught exactly what you described.... that we should obey the laws of both God and the government until the governments law contradicts the laws of God.... and then we obey God.. always.... the church i went to actually did teach that - right up until the moment it decided to make obama their god and started obeying him instead of scripture..... i don;t know what they teach now because i left that church immediately... .but i still look back and miss the way it used to be there....

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just saying in my experience, I haven’t heard it mentioned much in church or otherwise.

 

[aleshanee]

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just saying in my experience, I haven’t heard it mentioned much in church or otherwise.

i am not disagreeing with you either... i think you are right about this... but my mind wanders.. and too often what;s in it ends up on the computer screen... especially when it;s raining... . i love the rain but i hate it when that happens.... ...