Does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked?

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christundivided

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If the foreordination of individuals to either life or damnation is the "good pleasure of His will".....

Then does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked?
 
Bump....

For all you Calvinist that think you have an answer for every question... Give it a shot.
 
Ezekiel 18:32 - For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Ezekiel 18:32 - For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
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Great answer.

I don't see any Calvinist having their say on the matter....
 
God takes pleasure in His will.
That is an entirely different matter.
 
FSSL said:
God takes pleasure in His will.
That is an entirely different matter.
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I thought His will involved the unconditional death of some? Explain how they are different.... please... :)
 
The Bible clearly says...

"God does not take pleasure in death..."

The Bible clearly says...

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

I am a human. I am just the clay. The potter has the right to enjoy crafting His pot any way He likes without me charging Him with any kind of injustice and brazen capricious pleasure in destruction of most.

I don't understand why this concept alludes you? You are making assumptions that are not true of Calvinists.
 
FSSL said:
The Bible clearly says...

"God does not take pleasure in death..."

The Bible clearly says...

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

I am a human. I am just the clay. The potter has the right to enjoy crafting His pot any way He likes without me charging Him with any kind of injustice and brazen capricious pleasure in destruction of most.

I don't understand why this concept alludes you? You are making assumptions that are not true of Calvinists.
Click to expand...
It may not be true of you, but it is certainly true of "Calvinists". Now remember, you said it was not true of Calvinists

Westminster Confession
The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.
Click to expand...

Calvins Institutes Chapter 21
We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.
Click to expand...
 
christundivided said:
If the foreordination of individuals to either life or damnation is the "good pleasure of His will".....

Then does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked?
Click to expand...

Could you cite the specific proof texts you have in mind, please.
 
Doing something according to the good pleasure of your will, and taking pleasure in death are two different things.  You can do something according to the good pleasure of your will and not take pleasure in the act itself. 

It's sort of like spanking your child, assuming that's the right thing to do.  You do it according to the good pleasure of your will (you know you're doing the right thing), but you take no pleasure in doing it. 

 
ItinerantPreacher said:
FSSL said:
The Bible clearly says...

"God does not take pleasure in death..."

The Bible clearly says...

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

I am a human. I am just the clay. The potter has the right to enjoy crafting His pot any way He likes without me charging Him with any kind of injustice and brazen capricious pleasure in destruction of most.

I don't understand why this concept alludes you? You are making assumptions that are not true of Calvinists.
Click to expand...
It may not be true of you, but it is certainly true of "Calvinists". Now remember, you said it was not true of Calvinists

Westminster Confession
The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.
Click to expand...

Calvins Institutes Chapter 21
We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You bet me too it.... :)
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
christundivided said:
If the foreordination of individuals to either life or damnation is the "good pleasure of His will".....

Then does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked?
Click to expand...

Could you cite the specific proof texts you have in mind, please.
Click to expand...

You posted the verse I had in mind. If you come by my way.... I'll buy you a Diet Mt. Dew and we can discuss how to change the world...... :)
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Doing something according to the good pleasure of your will, and taking pleasure in death are two different things.  You can do something according to the good pleasure of your will and not take pleasure in the act itself. 

It's sort of like spanking your child, assuming that's the right thing to do.  You do it according to the good pleasure of your will (you know you're doing the right thing), but you take no pleasure in doing it.
Click to expand...

Ah... So God does things that he doesn't actually enjoy? Or things that don't actually result in Him taking pleasure in doing....

I can honestly say.... I don't think I've ever heard a Calvinist say such.

I think there is hope for you Rogue... ;)
 
christundivided said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
christundivided said:
If the foreordination of individuals to either life or damnation is the "good pleasure of His will".....

Then does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked?
Click to expand...

Could you cite the specific proof texts you have in mind, please.
Click to expand...

You posted the verse I had in mind. If you come by my way.... I'll buy you a Diet Mt. Dew and we can discuss how to change the world...... :)
Click to expand...

I thought you were/may have put words into His mouth by intimating he took pleasure in the death or destruction of the wicked.
The good pleasure of His will mean,  in essence, His purpose was fulfilled.
Proverbs states that 'The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil', but nowhere (to my knowledge) does Scripture ever say He takes pleasure in their death.
As was mentioned before, Ezekiel twice specifically states otherwise.

 
Tarheel Baptist said:
christundivided said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
christundivided said:
If the foreordination of individuals to either life or damnation is the "good pleasure of His will".....

Then does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked?
Click to expand...

Could you cite the specific proof texts you have in mind, please.
Click to expand...

You posted the verse I had in mind. If you come by my way.... I'll buy you a Diet Mt. Dew and we can discuss how to change the world...... :)
Click to expand...

I thought you were/may have put words into His mouth by intimating he took pleasure in the death or destruction of the wicked.
Click to expand...

Sorry I've "jaded" you by being a little hard on you in the past.

The good pleasure of His will mean,  in essence, His purpose was fulfilled.
Proverbs states that 'The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil', but nowhere (to my knowledge) does Scripture ever say He takes pleasure in their death.
As was mentioned before, Ezekiel twice specifically states otherwise.
Click to expand...

I agree one hundred percent. However, this isn't necessarily the issue.

Here we have an all powerful God that can do anything He so desires.... actually doing something that doesn't please Himself. The Calvinist view creates a paradox. A paradox in which God actually takes divine action in Eternity Past....to create something that will actually causes Him displeasure.

I would like a Calvinist to explain why God would do this. Explain this Paradox.
 
At least two things when we consider the paradox of God's Justice (Theodicy):

1) At the root of this question, some are tempted to use it as an accusation against a loving, just God. Paul warned us not to tread into that accusatory ground.

2) An answer to this question MUST appreciate God's prerogative and complete, righteous, holy completion of His plan that brings Him glory. "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth” (Exod. 9:16; Rom. 9:17).

3) In the Eschaton, the angels will declare: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants."

This answer to this question is not based in our ability to explain how God takes pleasure in evil. The question is answered when we consider that God's plan is Righteous, Just, Loving, Gracious and ultimately brings Him glory.

This is not unlike the Imprecatory Psalms.

Calvinists have the best answer for this question. Otherwise, having a perspective that could charge God with being unjust is what Paul warns against.
 
christundivided said:
I agree one hundred percent. However, this isn't necessarily the issue.

Here we have an all powerful God that can do anything He so desires.... actually doing something that doesn't please Himself. The Calvinist view creates a paradox. A paradox in which God actually takes divine action in Eternity Past....to create something that will actually causes Him displeasure.

I would like a Calvinist to explain why God would do this. Explain this Paradox.
Click to expand...

It's not a paradox.  It only appears that way to you because you're conflating two completely different things simply because they both include the word "pleasure". 

 
FSSL said:
At least two things when we consider the paradox of God's Justice (Theodicy):

1) At the root of this question, some are tempted to use it as an accusation against a loving, just God. Paul warned us not to tread into that accusatory ground.

2) An answer to this question MUST appreciate God's prerogative and complete, righteous, holy completion of His plan that brings Him glory. "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth” (Exod. 9:16; Rom. 9:17).

3) In the Eschaton, the angels will declare: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants."

This answer to this question is not based in our ability to explain how God takes pleasure in evil. The question is answered when we consider that God's plan is Righteous, Just, Loving, Gracious and ultimately brings Him glory.

This is not unlike the Imprecatory Psalms.

Calvinists have the best answer for this question. Otherwise, having a perspective that could charge God with being unjust is what Paul warns against.
Click to expand...

I'm not questioning a loving, just God. I'm question the paradox created by Calvinism. You answer is based on your assumption that Calvinism is true.

Calvinism doesn't have the best answer. I'll share the best answer a little later.... when I have time.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
christundivided said:
I agree one hundred percent. However, this isn't necessarily the issue.

Here we have an all powerful God that can do anything He so desires.... actually doing something that doesn't please Himself. The Calvinist view creates a paradox. A paradox in which God actually takes divine action in Eternity Past....to create something that will actually causes Him displeasure.

I would like a Calvinist to explain why God would do this. Explain this Paradox.
Click to expand...

It's not a paradox.  It only appears that way to you because you're conflating two completely different things simply because they both include the word "pleasure".
Click to expand...

Explain how I'm conflating them... I'll listen... or rather read.... :)

Both deal with God's pleasure. Now tell me how they are different. You've got to do better than your last response. You've got to realize that we are talking about a being WHO creates His own rules. Your view of God's rules... are that God has purposely created some for damnation. A damnation that brings Him no pleasure.

There is really only one answer that removes the paradox.
 
[quote author=christundivided]You've got to realize that we are talking about a being WHO creates His own rules...[/quote]

Not even close.

...There is really only one answer that removes the paradox.
Click to expand...

And that answer is trading in your arbitrary monster god for the true One revealed in Scripture.
 
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