Does Love = Coersion

[praise_yeshua]

Coercion = is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opn-8knCDyQ#t=54

 

[Recovering IFB]

God changed our hearts Ez 36

 

[Ransom]

You can't coerce a corpse.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God changed our hearts Ez 36

Ah... isn't it special that you're one of the few God transgressed your own will?

Does True Love.... act in such a coercive manner?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You can't coerce a corpse.

What corpse? Man didn't instantly turn to dust after the fall.... I wonder why?

 

[Ransom]

Ah... isn't it special that you're one of the few God transgressed your own will?

Corpses don't have wills.

Does True Love.... act in such a coercive manner?

You can't coerce a corpse.

 

[Ransom]

What corpse?

The corpse that is dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What corpse?

The corpse that is dead in trespasses and sins.

"That corpse" you're talking about..... didn't instantly turn to dust. That "corpse" still had a mouth whereby to call upon the name of the Lord.

 

[Recovering IFB]

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Please tell me -- will you be able to sin in heaven? 

 

[praise_yeshua]

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”

I hope you realize that Christ's death changed this..... Are you really saying there is no one righteous now? You really should take verses in context. In fact read some more....

Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Please tell me -- will you be able to sin in heaven?

Its not a matter of will we sin.... its a matter of desire.

Did the devil sin in heaven?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Please tell me -- will you be able to sin in heaven?

Its not a matter of will we sin.... its a matter of desire.

So -- God changes us so that we no longer have any desire to sin?  Isn't that coercion according to your logic? 

 

[Recovering IFB]

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”

I hope you realize that Christ's death changed this..... Are you really saying there is no one righteous now? You really should take verses in context. In fact read so more....

Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I beleive you take the verse out of context, how can a sinner choose God when he doesn't seek after him, what is in him that changed?

 

[Ransom]

"That corpse" you're talking about..... didn't instantly turn to dust.

Neither does a dead body, but you still can't "coerce" it.

It's too bad that metaphors mean something, isn't it?

 

[praise_yeshua]

"That corpse" you're talking about..... didn't instantly turn to dust.

Neither does a dead body, but you still can't "coerce" it.

It's too bad that metaphors mean something, isn't it?

Sure metaphors mean something..... when you apply them correctly. What metaphor in particular are you referencing? Do you care to share the chapter and verse?

Are you saying that Love doesn't = coercion? Its seems as if you're agreeing with me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Please tell me -- will you be able to sin in heaven?

Its not a matter of will we sin.... its a matter of desire.

So -- God changes us so that we no longer have any desire to sin?  Isn't that coercion according to your logic?

No. Coercion is all about freewill. I posted the definition in the OP. Read it again.

I asked you if the Devil sinned in heaven. You ignored this.... Please answer the question.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Please tell me -- will you be able to sin in heaven?

Its not a matter of will we sin.... its a matter of desire.

So -- God changes us so that we no longer have any desire to sin?  Isn't that coercion according to your logic?

No. Coercion is all about freewill. I posted the definition in the OP. Read it again.

I asked you if the Devil sinned in heaven. You ignored this.... Please answer the question.

The devil is not a saved human, so that's an apples-to-shoehorns comparison.*

The fact is, if God changes our desires when we enter heaven so that we no longer even have a trace of will to sin, then why do you object to the notion that the reason we come to Jesus in the first place is because God changes our desires? 

* Apples-to-oranges is a false metaphor, because oranges were originally called apples of China, or apples of the orange tree.  So an apples-to-oranges comparison is actually an apples-to-apples comparison.  The word "orange" referred to the tree first, and oranges were "apples of the orange tree".  Then people started calling the fruit orange.  And then they started using the word "orange" to describe the color.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The devil is not a saved human, so that's an apples-to-shoehorns comparison.*

You implied the environment precluded the ability to sin. I pointed out the fact the Devil sinned in HEAVEN. Make of it what you want. The comparison to the environment is accurate.

The fact is, if God changes our desires when we enter heaven so that we no longer even have a trace of will to sin, then why do you object to the notion that the reason we come to Jesus in the first place is because God changes our desires? 

Because, The Scriptures do not teach that regeneration takes place before salvation. That's an invention of Calvinism. Either way..... God changing the willing can't be compared to God refusing to change some all in the name of "the good pleasure of His will". I've already read where God is "willing" to change anyone that will come to Him.

* Apples-to-oranges is a false metaphor, because oranges were originally called apples of China, or apples of the orange tree.  So an apples-to-oranges comparison is actually an apples-to-apples comparison.  The word "orange" referred to the tree first, and oranges were "apples of the orange tree".  Then people started calling the fruit orange.  And then they started using the word "orange" to describe the color.

Okay... thanks for sharing the wisdom.... I fail to see how this is applicable to what I've done. Be more specific and feel free to include some Scripture.

 

[rsc2a]

The OP is implying that Calvinism equates love and coercion? You mean CU is deliberately misrepresenting what a typical Calvinist believes?