Their doctrines are false and heretical. And they are lost. But be careful that your trust isn't in your own understanding and not in the name of Jesus Christ. You yourself are looking through cloudly glass and know only in part.
Does Someone Need to Accept the Trinity to be Saved?
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How do you factually know this?
Personal experience and reading the testimonies of others. But how can you deny it, if your faith isn't misplaced?
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And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
I ain't using human reasoning or philosophy, merely and dogmatically the express word of God. It's not about mouthing some set of creeds, but embracing The Truth, and that Truth can't be separated from the reality declared in Scriptures that a person who has encountered The Truth will embrace His word about His person, not deny it when confronted with it.
<See Alayman’s response below for my opinion> I don’t think any of us have the spiritual power to truly discern the salvation status of another person—and the “fruits theory” doesn’t persuade me because there have been many “Christians” spilling over with visible fruit, but clandestinely working for Satan at the same time.
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Not exactly. JWs affirm that Christ is the Saviour, but they deny his divinity: rather than the Word who was God, he is the Word who was a god (John 1:1). He is not Jehovah in the flesh; rather, he is Michael the archangel.
Muslims acknowledge Jesua as a rasul, a prophet, but only as a prophet: "Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah" (Quran 4:171). He is not the eternal Son of God, because "how can He have a son when He hath no consort?" (Quran 6:101); and "it is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son" (Quran 19:35). The crucifixion, rather than being the culmination of Christ's ministy on earth, was nothing but a deception (Quran 4:157).
So both JWs and Muslims acknowledge Jesus, but neither acknowledges Jesus as God incarnate, as the Scriptures reveal. Both are idolators.
Who here is denying that? (BTW, welcome to a non-premillennial eschatology. )
So you are saying a certain grasp of the Trinity is needed for salvation. That's fine. I think that opinion is a result of misplaced faith, and we won't convince one another.
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A JW and Muslim both deny the truth about the person of Christ. The kenosis is a truth that once revealed to a professing believer must be believed, or the denial becomes evidence of their lack of trust in The Word.
The word says that if a person denies the truth-claims when confronted about who Christ the Messiah and God-man is that they are anti-Christ, not me.
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i wasn;t clear on the official doctrine of the trinity when i first got saved... but i understood the basic concept... and i knew that as the Son of God Jesus was part of God too..... it would take quite a bit of bible reading before i came across the scriptures that described the trinity in detail as Father Son and Holy Spirt.... but when i saw it i understood it completely.. embraced it, and never questioned it...... ..in fact it;s hard for me to understand now why some claiming to be christians question it now... .. but i realize a lot of them do..... and it makes me question their salvation - Jesus Himself confirmed that He was the living Son of God... the scripturs are clear on it.... how can anyone claim the name of Christ yet also think that He was lying about who He was?..... makes no sense.......
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Good to hear from you too!
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You said that lack of Trinitarian awareness was a part of your early salvation experience, as did I, and abcaines. I'm betting that's the overwhelming norm for people who get saved out of a non-Christian background/cultural context. And as you also said, those who are truly born again realize that His Lordship calls to them ("my sheep hear my voice and follow...") through the voice of His word. His "commandments" are not burdensome to those who know His love.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
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It seems like if salvation is contingent on belief and faith in Christ, that that would be all that would be required and theological understanding would come later, perhaps as one is weaned from milk to meat. Certainly the thief on the cross didn't have time to understand that the Lord, next to him on another cross, was not only Christ but also the 2nd person of the Godhead. He just knew that he believed.
Let’s take the Muslims out of the equation and stick with the JWs. Would the Mormons be a similar fit? (I’m speaking specifically of mainstream Mormons, not the fringe, plural marriage ones.)
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Mormons deny that Jesus is eternal, in the sense of having always existed--like the JWs, they believe he came into existence at a point in time. Jesus is the progeny of the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. The Heavenly Father chose Mary to give birth to Jesus and bear him a human body.
So, no, like the others, that's nowhere near true.
I do find it funny that the Muslims deny God has a son because it's beneath Allah to take a wife and procreate. Then along come the Mormons, and say that's exactly what he did.
John 7:17 "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God"
If someone is saved, they'll know the truth when they hear or read it............................ {Some how I left out the last couple of words out of the verse, but I'm not gonna change it now}
If someone is saved, they'll know the truth when they hear or read it............................ {Some how I left out the last couple of words out of the verse, but I'm not gonna change it now}
Thank you for the info. Now, all that being said, I’d like to circle back to Ecclecian’s argument that saved (he prefers the term “elect”) can be found in the ranks of these groups you just described. Would you agree with his assertion?
Not quite. The word allows that some are just not ready and able to receive certain truths. Babes, basically.
I would prefer you circle back to a more complete representation of my argument...
Anything is possible. If there are believers amongst the LDS or the JWs, they are believers because of something external to the group.
You know, I just thought of a couple I've met that came out of the LDS. The wife became a believer a year or two before they left. If I'm remembering correctly, he was pretty high up in the LDS Church. About the time she got saved, things were starting to fall apart for them and the church. She knew the LDS was a cult after her conversion but she stuck by her husband until he finally came around to salvation and they both left the church.
I do agree it is possible to be a believer in these organizations but the believer will certainly feel out of place until they are out. That was certainly the case with the couple I know.
Grit 'n Grace: Rescue from Mormon Chains, Redemption in Christ Jesus: Earl, Lance, Erskin, Earl, Earl, Grace: 9780578918105: Amazon.com: Books
Grit 'n Grace: Rescue from Mormon Chains, Redemption in Christ Jesus [Earl, Lance, Erskin, Earl, Earl, Grace] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Grit 'n Grace: Rescue from Mormon Chains, Redemption in Christ Jesus
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The elect may be members of these groups. If that is the case at present, then it's a legitimate question whether they are yet saved. At the moment they are in a state of unbelief. If they are indeed elect, then God has yet to bring them out of their present darkness and into the light of truth.