Dr. Hyles Vs Jack Schaap

[Norefund]

We all grew up in a different time. My response and the retelling of the joke was in response to the ?it wasn?t part of his ministry ? and the ?he had a great sense of humor ? comments. And the correlation of using the word Oriental vs. a racial stereotype joke is weak at best.

That doesn?t make the joke acceptable . It also doesn?t excuse the fact that I laughed at it. In my defense I was probably 12 or 13 years old.

Racism was part of FBC culture and how anyone can deny it is beyond me. In the 6 years I attended junior high and high school there wasn?t one black student. I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond.

 

[fishinnut]

We all grew up in a different time. My response and the retelling of the joke was in response to the ?it wasn?t part of his ministry ? and the ?he had a great sense of humor ? comments. And the correlation of using the word Oriental vs. a racial stereotype joke is weak at best.

That doesn?t make the joke acceptable . It also doesn?t excuse the fact that I laughed at it. In my defense I was probably 12 or 13 years old.

Racism was part of FBC culture and how anyone can deny it is beyond me. In the 6 years I attended junior high and high school there wasn?t one black student. I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond.

Not true at the college in late 70's & early 80's.

 

[qwerty]

We all grew up in a different time. My response and the retelling of the joke was in response to the ?it wasn?t part of his ministry ? and the ?he had a great sense of humor ? comments. And the correlation of using the word Oriental vs. a racial stereotype joke is weak at best.

That doesn?t make the joke acceptable . It also doesn?t excuse the fact that I laughed at it. In my defense I was probably 12 or 13 years old.

Racism was part of FBC culture and how anyone can deny it is beyond me. In the 6 years I attended junior high and high school there wasn?t one black student. I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond.

Not true at the college in late 70's & early 80's.

Same in 90 onward.

 

[Norefund]

I went to see a basketball game at HBHS in the late 70's and I saw that there was one black player that the students referred to as "Shadow."

Is this part still true?
"I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond."

 

[fishinnut]

I went to see a basketball game at HBHS in the late 70's and I saw that there was one black player that the students referred to as "Shadow."

Is this part still true?
"I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond."

So...........let's turn the tables. Can you name a single white associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position at 1st Baptist over in Gary, IN?

 

[Norefund]

Never been there....you would have to ask someone in the 1st Baptist of Gary sub-forum.

Recapping the spin: Jack Hyles was not mean or condescending - he was teasing and displaying a great sense of humor as he insulted and excoriated people. Jack Hyles may have told racist jokes but that wasn't part of his ministry so it's OK. Wait, he told them from the pulpit? That's OK too because it was a different time. There has never been an African-American in any leadership position at any FBC institution and that's OK because an African-American church in Gary doesn't have any Caucasians in leadership positions either.

I'm not buying any of those spins and neither should you.

I went to see a basketball game at HBHS in the late 70's and I saw that there was one black player that the students referred to as "Shadow."

Is this part still true?
"I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond."

So...........let's turn the tables. Can you name a single white associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position at 1st Baptist over in Gary, IN?

 

[fishinnut]

Never been there....you would have to ask someone in the 1st Baptist of Gary sub-forum.

Recapping the spin: Jack Hyles was not mean or condescending - he was teasing and displaying a great sense of humor as he insulted and excoriated people. Jack Hyles may have told racist jokes but that wasn't part of his ministry so it's OK. Wait, he told them from the pulpit? That's OK too because it was a different time. There has never been an African-American in any leadership position at any FBC institution and that's OK because an African-American church in Gary doesn't have any Caucasians in leadership positions either.

I'm not buying any of those spins and neither should you.

I went to see a basketball game at HBHS in the late 70's and I saw that there was one black player that the students referred to as "Shadow."

Is this part still true?
"I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond."

So...........let's turn the tables. Can you name a single white associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position at 1st Baptist over in Gary, IN?

No spin & you don't know me from a bag of mud.  You have been suckered by the new PC culture which is into the rewriting of history.  I am not a FBCH or JH apologist but I was there for 4 years of my adult life while a college student & tithing member of the church. Your posts have shifted from......they were racial to now you are zeroing in on African-American's.

Truth be told, JH & FBCH started & built a large (their word) Spanish ministry before doing so was the thing to do in a community.  If they were so racial then pray tell why would they make reaching these folks in their community with the gospel a priority?

Every African-American student was involved in the bus ministry, soul-winning, youth ministry, SS teaching, etc. Mine was a fair question, check the website of 1st Gary, no white staff which bothers me none at all.

BTW.......you haven't even learned how to post on the forum.  But have become expert in making up fake history. 

The fact of the matter is that most churches have not been mixed. The non denominational churches are changing that culture especially inner cities, but traditionally & historically that has not the case.

I heard JH preach on winning the lost many times. I never heard him teach or preach to win only a certain race.

 

[Mr. White]

As a teenager in Hyles's office, I heard Hyles tell this joke. He lined up some loose change in a way that made it noticeable that Lincolns profile on the penny faced a different direction than the profiles on the other coins. He then remarked that, "If you had freed all the *******, your friends would have turned their back on you too."

This was in the nineties when the use of that word was no longer acceptable.
This was later in his life when he should have matured past this point.
This was spoken to a group of teen boys under his influence.

A leader cannot tell jokes of this nature without it affecting the culture of the orginazation.

You couple this with the well known % rule for black bus riders and what other conclusion can you come up with.

 

[Norefund]

Never been there....you would have to ask someone in the 1st Baptist of Gary sub-forum.

Recapping the spin: Jack Hyles was not mean or condescending - he was teasing and displaying a great sense of humor as he insulted and excoriated people. Jack Hyles may have told racist jokes but that wasn't part of his ministry so it's OK. Wait, he told them from the pulpit? That's OK too because it was a different time. There has never been an African-American in any leadership position at any FBC institution and that's OK because an African-American church in Gary doesn't have any Caucasians in leadership positions either.

I'm not buying any of those spins and neither should you.

I went to see a basketball game at HBHS in the late 70's and I saw that there was one black player that the students referred to as "Shadow."

Is this part still true?
"I can?t remember a single black associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position even as a volunteer. I don?t know if that changed at all in the 90?s and beyond."

So...........let's turn the tables. Can you name a single white associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position at 1st Baptist over in Gary, IN?

No spin & you don't know me from a bag of mud.  You have been suckered by the new PC culture which is into the rewriting of history.  I am not a FBCH or JH apologist but I was there for 4 years of my adult life while a college student & tithing member of the church. Your posts have shifted from......they were racial to now you are zeroing in on African-American's.

Truth be told, JH & FBCH started & built a large (their word) Spanish ministry before doing so was the thing to do in a community.  If they were so racial then pray tell why would they make reaching these folks in their community with the gospel a priority?

Every African-American student was involved in the bus ministry, soul-winning, youth ministry, SS teaching, etc. Mine was a fair question, check the website of 1st Gary, no white staff which bothers me none at all.

BTW.......you haven't even learned how to post on the forum.  But have become expert in making up fake history. 

The fact of the matter is that most churches have not been mixed. The non denominational churches are changing that culture especially inner cities, but traditionally & historically that has not the case.

I heard JH preach on winning the lost many times. I never heard him teach or preach to win only a certain race.

And you don't know me either. I attended for over 20 years. I am not rewriting history, I am recounting it and asking if anyone knows different from my recollection.  My posts have followed and answered the shift of how this thread has gone. I wasn't the first to post about racial jokes or racist attitudes in this thread. I responded when it was said that this was not a part of JH's ministry. I gave an accurate depiction of a joke he told from the pulpit - no one has disputed this.  I didn't switch the topic - I responded - as did you.

The Latin Americans were treated differently than African-Americans. Many Hispanic kids were fellow students of mine at HBHS but there were no African-Americans.  Bus Captains were told not to bring black kids - until they figured out how to segregate them by having "B" church.

Do you mean every African-American college student went soul winning, buses, etc? In my brief time at HAC I remember maybe 5. I don't see how that is relevant to anything I posted.

I don't claim to be an expert forum poster although I'm not sure what you were even referring to by this comment. The history I recounted was my own observance - not fake. Again, no one has corrected my observations. If someone can recall differently than me, by all means, set me straight. Again, my observations are from the late 60's through the mid-80's which was all the Jack Hyles era. I know FBC is changing now.

I don't contest that JH wanted his followers to reach the lost regardless of race. I just know he didn't want them mixed into the main congregation or the schools when they were first formed.

Look, you can still have an admiration or love for JH while at the same time admitting that he had some pretty deep flaws. Everyone on here seems hell bent on choosing a side and that 's it. Your either "fer us or agin us" (I think that's a JH quote also). It's just not that simple for some of us. Yes, I admit I point out the negatives far more than the positives. But, in this thread, it is in response to glossing over and making excuses for what should now be recognized as bad behavior.  If anyone told that joke now they would be expelled from the ministry and it would probably make the news.

I welcome the insight of those that were closer to the decision making process. And, again, if I am wrong, I'll say so.

 

[Walt]

I have been told that there was a quota for the buses - if one brought too many black kids, he was talked to.  True?  I'm not sure, but I don't have any reason to think the people who said that were lying, but their memory could have been at fault.

I do have personal experience of people who attend HAC and were pastors and assistance pastors; the son of a staff member mentioned that they were looking to move because the neighborhood was getting "too dark".  I was upset by what he was apparently being taught at home.

At one church, the pastor met with the membership and had a long rationalization speech about why we had to move out of the neighborhood... it boiled down to that there were to many black families in the area. We were sold the story that the kids would come, get saved, but that their parents and teachers were tearing down the (white) leadership, and so no progress could be made in growing them... so that church left the area.

This is nothing directly against JH - but both of these families were HAC-trained and big JH supporters.  Doesn't mean everyone is like this who went to HAC.  But apparently, that kind of mindset was tacitly allowed.

 

[Twisted]

So...........let's turn the tables. Can you name a single white associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position at 1st Baptist over in Gary, IN?

Why should there be anyone white there?  Just because they're white?

SHOCKER:  White people prefer to befriend white people.  Black people prefer to befriend black people.  Of course there are exceptions.  No problem with that.

The rest boils down to business.  White church pastors know that if too many blacks come in, the whites will leave and the money goes with them.

Same for the black churches.

It's called preference.  Not "racism".  Will it change?  I think it has already. (without government intrusion)

I was babysat by a Black family.  I remember segregated schools.  No problems for the kids.  We got along great (but I believe the Blacks came out the losers by the closing of their own school)

Years ago I worked with a young Black man (around 20).  He was open to talking about pretty much anything.  We talked about  "Race relations".  I asked him if he had an album collection.  He did.  I asked how many albums by white groups he had.  Just a couple.  I asked him what he would think about the government requiring he increase his percentage of white albums.  He didn't like that idea.  And I didn't either.

 

[16KJV11]

So...........let's turn the tables. Can you name a single white associate pastor or anyone in any leadership position at 1st Baptist over in Gary, IN?

Why should there be anyone white there?  Just because they're white?

SHOCKER:  White people prefer to befriend white people.  Black people prefer to befriend black people.  Of course there are exceptions.  No problem with that.

The rest boils down to business.  White church pastors know that if too many blacks come in, the whites will leave and the money goes with them.

Same for the black churches.

It's called preference.  Not "racism".  Will it change?  I think it has already. (without government intrusion)

I was babysat by a Black family.  I remember segregated schools.  No problems for the kids.  We got along great (but I believe the Blacks came out the losers by the closing of their own school)

Years ago I worked with a young Black man (around 20).  He was open to talking about pretty much anything.  We talked about  "Race relations".  I asked him if he had an album collection.  He did.  I asked how many albums by white groups he had.  Just a couple.  I asked him what he would think about the government requiring he increase his percentage of white albums.  He didn't like that idea.  And I didn't either.

And then you put Michael Jackson's Thriller on the record player and moon walked across the room.

 

[Twisted]

And then you put Michael Jackson's Thriller on the record player and moon walked across the room.

That is a sweet way to put it all together!

 

[Norefund]

Great wrap up to that story. Music is a common ground for a lot of us. And Michael Jordan. Seriously, don't you think the admiration we all had for his athletic drive transcended race?

And then you put Michael Jackson's Thriller on the record player and moon walked across the room.

That is a sweet way to put it all together!

 

[Twisted]

And Michael Jordan.

What did I miss?  LOL!

 

[Jason Crank]

Snore!