Dr Jerry Falwell, 1933 - 2007

[Tarheel Baptist]

On May 15, 2007 Dr Jerry Falwell entered the presence of the Lord he loved and served during his time on earth. It was at Liberty University that My wife and I learned to live by faith and trust God. Dr Falwell's ministry and his example gave me a thirst for and love of Scripture. Like so many other Liberty students, I felt his heart, envied his faith and caught his vision. Later, he unselfishly gave me his time, advice and encouragement during some dark days in my life. He was a visionary, a great leader and a man of great faith in his Savior. The world is a better place because Jerry Falwell once lived in it.

Tarheel, are you familiar with a Pastor by the name of John Yates?

I don't believe I know him.
Why do you ask?

A Liberty Graduate, he has some discipleship material I use and very much appreciate. He would have graduated around 83/84 ish. (I know all grads don't know all other grads, just a question of curiosity)

I don't know him. I was a LU student in the 70's and am still in contact with many of my classmates. I seldom have contact with the University these days.

I suspect neither does he, but he expresses much gratitude for what he did learn and how he was helped. A man with a sweet spirit.

His work and life honours Bro Falwell's legacy

While I don't hide my Liberty affiliation, I certainly don't walk in lockstep with them philosophically. But, at Liberty, being in lockstep isn't required to be 'in fellowship'.

I appreciate much of what he accomplished, even though HAC graduates I ran across thought him a compromiser.

He did lose a lot of respect when he inserted himself into the Jim Bakker stuff.

Many IFB's still think of him as a compromiser. But Jack Hyles is a bastion of fundamentalism. Jerry, for all his faults....and the PTL debacle....never had a taint of immorality about him or the ministry he led.                                   
As opposed to Dr Hyles.

Well said.  The solution is to stop putting men up on pedestals; we can honor them for the good that they did, but we should also, in truth, acknowledge their faults, all the more so when they were public figures.  I don't mean that all men must be torn down.  In my opinion, JF did become a compromiser, at least as far as the IFB goes. But... on the good side, he never had the morass of putrid corruption that surrounded Hyles.

I agree that we need to be careful how we exalt men. I loved and respected Dr Falwell, but disagreed with him on many things. And have issues with Liberty today as well, but Jerry didn't care and neither does Liberty.

On the other hand, many of the same IFB's who call Falwell a compromiser defend Hyles and consider women who wear pants, Pastors who preach from the ESV and churches who have drums in their music program to be "compromisers".
Perspective is a wonderful thing! 

 

[subllibrm]

One of my favorite Falwell memories was when Cal Thomas took him to task on national TV for getting too involved in politics and more or less told him to get out of the Republican's bed.  8)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

One of my favorite Falwell memories was when Cal Thomas took him to task on national TV for getting too involved in politics and more or less told him to get out of the Republican's bed.  8)

One of my favorite memories was when Jerry hired Cal to help run the Moral Majority!  8)

 

[Ransom]

Tinky Winky.

Blaming abortionists, feminists, and gays for 9/11.

Nuff said.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Tinky Winky.

Blaming abortionists, feminists, and gays for 9/11.

Nuff said.

Tinky Winky....no argument!
As to his 9-11 comments, in their context, they referenced his belief that it was God's judgment. I think it probably was partially, and that it was only the beginning. He tried to walk those comments back. I think he should have tried to explain then in context....but that's just me.

I feel no compulsion to defend Falwell...he was a flawed man. But he was also a man of great faith and one of the best Christians I have known personally. IMO, that is....

I once was very active at Liberty, but saw that I just didn't fit with their basic philosophy and direction. I still think Liberty University is his greatest legacy.

 

[subllibrm]

One of my favorite Falwell memories was when Cal Thomas took him to task on national TV for getting too involved in politics and more or less told him to get out of the Republican's bed.  8)

One of my favorite memories was when Jerry hired Cal to help run the Moral Majority!  8)

Cal's point in his remarks was that the Moral Majority was a fool's errand.  His book on the subject with Ed Dobson (another member of the early MM team) pretty much set my position on the subject of entering into a tangled alliance between the church and a political party.

At least Cal and Ed were man enough to admit their mistake. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

One of my favorite Falwell memories was when Cal Thomas took him to task on national TV for getting too involved in politics and more or less told him to get out of the Republican's bed.  8)

One of my favorite memories was when Jerry hired Cal to help run the Moral Majority!  8)

Cal's point in his remarks was that the Moral Majority was a fool's errand.  His book on the subject with Ed Dobson (another member of the early MM team) pretty much set my position on the subject of entering into a tangled alliance between the church and a political party.

At least Cal and Ed were man enough to admit their mistake. 

I am personally acquainted with Cal Thomas.
Not friends, but have been personally involved with him on more than one occasion.
You are correct when you say that Cal had some misgivings and disagreements with Jerry about the movement...looking back. But, Jerry had some misgivings as well....and so does his son Jonathan.
You are wrong to say Cal ever took Jerry on....they were friends and partners in ministry until Jerry's passing.
Now, Ron Godwin would be another story....

Cal on Jerry at his death:

Jerry didn't fit the stereotype the media tried to impose on him. He had a wicked sense of humor and he could be very generous. I once took him to a meeting of inner-city pastors and disadvantaged children in Washington, D.C. One young boy particularly impressed him and Jerry asked the boy to ride with him to the airport. The boy told him he'd like to go to college and Jerry gave him his phone number, saying, "When you graduate from high school, call me. You will have a full scholarship at Liberty University." The boy's father cried. So did I.

 

[Walt]

I am personally acquainted with Cal Thomas.
Not friends, but have been personally involved with him on more than one occasion.
You are correct when you say that Cal had some misgivings and disagreements with Jerry about the movement...looking back. But, Jerry had some misgivings as well....and so does his son Jonathan.
You are wrong to say Cal ever took Jerry on....they were friends and partners in ministry until Jerry's passing.
Now, Ron Godwin would be another story....

Cal on Jerry at his death:

Jerry didn't fit the stereotype the media tried to impose on him. He had a wicked sense of humor and he could be very generous. I once took him to a meeting of inner-city pastors and disadvantaged children in Washington, D.C. One young boy particularly impressed him and Jerry asked the boy to ride with him to the airport. The boy told him he'd like to go to college and Jerry gave him his phone number, saying, "When you graduate from high school, call me. You will have a full scholarship at Liberty University." The boy's father cried. So did I.

This is somewhat generous; as head of the school, it costs him nothing to order that an individual gets a full scholarship.  "Very generous" would be paying out of his own pocket for the boy's college education.

Not trying to run him down; it is still a kind thing to do; just not sure that "very generous" is a description of this action.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I am personally acquainted with Cal Thomas.
Not friends, but have been personally involved with him on more than one occasion.
You are correct when you say that Cal had some misgivings and disagreements with Jerry about the movement...looking back. But, Jerry had some misgivings as well....and so does his son Jonathan.
You are wrong to say Cal ever took Jerry on....they were friends and partners in ministry until Jerry's passing.
Now, Ron Godwin would be another story....

Cal on Jerry at his death:

Jerry didn't fit the stereotype the media tried to impose on him. He had a wicked sense of humor and he could be very generous. I once took him to a meeting of inner-city pastors and disadvantaged children in Washington, D.C. One young boy particularly impressed him and Jerry asked the boy to ride with him to the airport. The boy told him he'd like to go to college and Jerry gave him his phone number, saying, "When you graduate from high school, call me. You will have a full scholarship at Liberty University." The boy's father cried. So did I.

This is somewhat generous; as head of the school, it costs him nothing to order that an individual gets a full scholarship.  "Very generous" would be paying out of his own pocket for the boy's college education.

Not trying to run him down; it is still a kind thing to do; just not sure that "very generous" is a description of this action.

I'm just quoting Cal Thomas. 

Your point is taken, but anyone who knew Jerry could take that incident in the context of his life and agree that he was a very gracious and personally generous man. I also think there are many stories of Dr Hyles being generous as well.

To me and my famil there are many times that Dr Falwell was gracious and generous and always required that it not be made public.
But, he was not perfect....and unlike same Pastors I've known never gave the impression that he was....

 

[Walt]

I am personally acquainted with Cal Thomas.
Not friends, but have been personally involved with him on more than one occasion.
You are correct when you say that Cal had some misgivings and disagreements with Jerry about the movement...looking back. But, Jerry had some misgivings as well....and so does his son Jonathan.
You are wrong to say Cal ever took Jerry on....they were friends and partners in ministry until Jerry's passing.
Now, Ron Godwin would be another story....

Cal on Jerry at his death:

Jerry didn't fit the stereotype the media tried to impose on him. He had a wicked sense of humor and he could be very generous. I once took him to a meeting of inner-city pastors and disadvantaged children in Washington, D.C. One young boy particularly impressed him and Jerry asked the boy to ride with him to the airport. The boy told him he'd like to go to college and Jerry gave him his phone number, saying, "When you graduate from high school, call me. You will have a full scholarship at Liberty University." The boy's father cried. So did I.

This is somewhat generous; as head of the school, it costs him nothing to order that an individual gets a full scholarship.  "Very generous" would be paying out of his own pocket for the boy's college education.

Not trying to run him down; it is still a kind thing to do; just not sure that "very generous" is a description of this action.

I'm just quoting Cal Thomas. 

Yes, I'm aware.  I disagree with Cal Thomas that such as action is "very generous".

Your point is taken, but anyone who knew Jerry could take that incident in the context of his life and agree that he was a very gracious and personally generous man. I also think there are many stories of Dr Hyles being generous as well.

That incident alone doesn't indicate whether or not he was personally generous is all I'm saying.  I didn't know him personally, so I'm willing to take the word of others.

Dr Hyles often spoke (boasted) about all of the people he helped.  Most seemed to be friends or staff members.  One wonders if perhaps he paid them livable wages, they wouldn't be so dependent upon handouts to get by.

Speaking of which, I have a friend who has helped us from time to time.  I consider him very generous, but he has never (maybe seldom) spoken of all that he has done.  In some quiet moments together, he has expressed  frustration when he hears others boast about such things, but he has never felt the freedom to discuss what he's done.

To me and my family there are many times that Dr Falwell was gracious and generous and always required that it not be made public.
But, he was not perfect....and unlike same Pastors I've known never gave the impression that he was....

Good to hear about Dr Falwell; as I said, I only knew him from the Old-Time Gospel Hour, and then the preaching against him from (mostly) the Hyles crowd.

 

[subllibrm]

I never suggested that Mr. Thomas and Dr. Falwell had a personal falling out. I did say that I enjoyed Mr. Thomas' exchange with Dr. Falwell in that particular case.

As I recall Cal used  the warning against the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. He focused in on the pride of life for his application. His point was that the ground being trod was not holy ground and was a dangerous place for a believer to be. Even for Dr. Falwell.

 

[4everfsu]

Those who think Jerry Falwell was not generous when giving out scholarships to Liberty U because it did not cost him anything. Ask his late wife Mabel, Jerry would give people in need all the money in his wallet to the point she would be upset with him when he came home. Or the time he went on visitation in Lynchburg when he first started TRBC.  Jerry came back home with no shoes, he gave his to a man who had no shoes that day.

 

[sword]

Those who think Jerry Falwell was not generous when giving out scholarships to Liberty U because it did not cost him anything. Ask his late wife Mabel, Jerry would give people in need all the money in his wallet to the point she would be upset with him when he came home. Or the time he went on visitation in Lynchburg when he first started TRBC.  Jerry came back home with no shoes, he gave his to a man who had no shoes that day.

I know very little about him but I would suspect this is a big part in why God blessed him & his ministry.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I never suggested that Mr. Thomas and Dr. Falwell had a personal falling out. I did say that I enjoyed Mr. Thomas' exchange with Dr. Falwell in that particular case.

As I recall Cal used  the warning against the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. He focused in on the pride of life for his application. His point was that the ground being trod was not holy ground and was a dangerous place for a believer to be. Even for Dr. Falwell.

Im not sure what confrontation you are referencing, but here is what Cal had to say about Dr Falwell when Jerry resigned from Moral Majority. Cal still visited Thomas Road, his wife singing in the services....to the chagrin of many. 
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19871107&id=QD0sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Lc4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6930,2468396&hl=en

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Those who think Jerry Falwell was not generous when giving out scholarships to Liberty U because it did not cost him anything. Ask his late wife Mabel, Jerry would give people in need all the money in his wallet to the point she would be upset with him when he came home. Or the time he went on visitation in Lynchburg when he first started TRBC.  Jerry came back home with no shoes, he gave his to a man who had no shoes that day.

I know very little about him but I would suspect this is a big part in why God blessed him & his ministry.

I think you are right.
Somehow, Jerry always had $100 bills in his suit coat pockets, and would distribute them to those he knew had a need. But, where he was most generous was with his time. To his LU 'Preacher boys' he was always available. He would call early Sunday mornings to offer advice and encouragement when he knew you were going through a hard time.

 

[Walt]

Those who think Jerry Falwell was not generous when giving out scholarships to Liberty U because it did not cost him anything. Ask his late wife Mabel, Jerry would give people in need all the money in his wallet to the point she would be upset with him when he came home. Or the time he went on visitation in Lynchburg when he first started TRBC.  Jerry came back home with no shoes, he gave his to a man who had no shoes that day.

I did not say he was not generous; I just pointed out that (as head of the school) mandated that a certain student would not have to pay tuition may be kind and good, but it wasn't "very generous".  This story is a much better illustration that he was.

 

[subllibrm]

I never suggested that Mr. Thomas and Dr. Falwell had a personal falling out. I did say that I enjoyed Mr. Thomas' exchange with Dr. Falwell in that particular case.

As I recall Cal used  the warning against the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. He focused in on the pride of life for his application. His point was that the ground being trod was not holy ground and was a dangerous place for a believer to be. Even for Dr. Falwell.

Im not sure what confrontation you are referencing, but here is what Cal had to say about Dr Falwell when Jerry resigned from Moral Majority. Cal still visited Thomas Road, his wife singing in the services....to the chagrin of many. 
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19871107&id=QD0sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Lc4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6930,2468396&hl=en

It was a televised debate of some sort IIRC. Falwell was on the stage and Thomas was in the gallery. They took questions from the audience. Thomas participated.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I never suggested that Mr. Thomas and Dr. Falwell had a personal falling out. I did say that I enjoyed Mr. Thomas' exchange with Dr. Falwell in that particular case.

As I recall Cal used  the warning against the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. He focused in on the pride of life for his application. His point was that the ground being trod was not holy ground and was a dangerous place for a believer to be. Even for Dr. Falwell.

Im not sure what confrontation you are referencing, but here is what Cal had to say about Dr Falwell when Jerry resigned from Moral Majority. Cal still visited Thomas Road, his wife singing in the services....to the chagrin of many. 
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19871107&id=QD0sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Lc4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6930,2468396&hl=en

It was a televised debate of some sort IIRC. Falwell was on the stage and Thomas was in the gallery. They took questions from the audience. Thomas participated.

If you ever come across it online, I'd appreciate a link, I would love to see their interaction. When MM was at its peak, my close friend worked with Cal there. I was also very active in MM in NC. That was my first political experience and I am still politically active to this day.

As to Cal and Jerry, they simply agreed to disagree. But I note that Cal's revival came AFTER he 'parted ways' and pay checks with MM.