Election is Christocentric

[praise_yeshua]

Each individual is justified... Not a group.

"Those" is plural, not a collective or group. If this referred to Israel, we would have a singular pronoun


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Why in the world are you trying to include Israel? I didn't ask for your interpretation. I ask you about the grammatical construct of the verse.

How is "plural" not a group? It certainly isn't singular. Explain to me how plural is singular.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So... Is Romans 9 about individuals or the nation?


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Calvin's good twist Romans 9 to their own destruction.

God's choice in Jacob was a metaphorical representation of God's choice in Christ. Esau represented Adam. Jacob represented Christ. You nuts twist it to make it about YOU!!! I preached a message on it close to 25 years ago. Its unmistakeable.

You have audio of that sermon, I would love to listen to it.

Are you being sincere? Are you looking for ammunition or entertaining possibilities?

 

[FSSL]

Why in the world are you trying to include Israel? I didn't ask for your interpretation. I ask you about the grammatical construct of the verse.
How is "plural" not a group? It certainly isn't singular. Explain to me how plural is singular.

Your post is not very clear... but let me put it this way...

If it is a group (a collective), then it would be a singular pronoun.
Since we have a plural pronoun, this passage refers to more than one person.

This passage is addressing the election, justification and glorification of individuals.

 

[FSSL]

Are you being sincere? Are you looking for ammunition or entertaining possibilities?

If I had a recording of a sermon I delivered 25 years ago, I certainly would not share it!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Some people just get so upset, it renders their arguments as clear as mud. 

As that guy in LA once said, "can't we all just get along"?

No more vitriolic polemic ad hominem attacks.

Let the succinctness and lucidity of your arguments rise to the fore.

Yeah. Jesus didn't get anything across when he made a whip and drove some people out of the temple. He RUINED everything He was trying to say....

Listen. I hate Calvinism. I HATE it. I've had opportunities in my life to work with Calvinists in ministry and I refused to do so. I gave up trying to get along with them. I just tell it like it is. Calvinism is a damnable doctrine that is destroying the lives of many people.

I could care less what you think about my methods. You're a Calvinist and all you're looking to do is pretend you're taking the "high road" in the argument. You have never made much of theological attempt to defend what you believe. You can't. Its beyond you. None of you really have. FSSL is just playing around. I use to think he could defend himself and he's proven my suspicion wrong.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So... Is Romans 9 about individuals or the nation?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Calvin's good twist Romans 9 to their own destruction.

God's choice in Jacob was a metaphorical representation of God's choice in Christ. Esau represented Adam. Jacob represented Christ. You nuts twist it to make it about YOU!!! I preached a message on it close to 25 years ago. Its unmistakeable.

I have to say, this is the strangest appeal to authority I've ever seen in a discussion. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why in the world are you trying to include Israel? I didn't ask for your interpretation. I ask you about the grammatical construct of the verse.
How is "plural" not a group? It certainly isn't singular. Explain to me how plural is singular.

Your post is not very clear... but let me put it this way...

If it is a group (a collective), then it would be a singular pronoun.
Since we have a plural pronoun, this passage refers to more than one person.

This passage is addressing the election, justification and glorification of individuals.

Do you really believe this? A group is referenced by a singular pronoun?

What about "them"? Do you know what "them" means?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So... Is Romans 9 about individuals or the nation?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Calvin's good twist Romans 9 to their own destruction.

God's choice in Jacob was a metaphorical representation of God's choice in Christ. Esau represented Adam. Jacob represented Christ. You nuts twist it to make it about YOU!!! I preached a message on it close to 25 years ago. Its unmistakeable.

I have to say, this is the strangest appeal to authority I've ever seen in a discussion.

Good grief. It wasn't an appeal to authority. I was just making the point that I'm not a novice in the matter. Don't be childish.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So... Is Romans 9 about individuals or the nation?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Calvin's good twist Romans 9 to their own destruction.

God's choice in Jacob was a metaphorical representation of God's choice in Christ. Esau represented Adam. Jacob represented Christ. You nuts twist it to make it about YOU!!! I preached a message on it close to 25 years ago. Its unmistakeable.

I have to say, this is the strangest appeal to authority I've ever seen in a discussion.

Good grief. It wasn't an appeal to authority. I was just making the point that I'm not a novice in the matter. Don't be childish.

I have to say, this is the second strangest appeal to authority I've ever seen in a discussion.

 

[FSSL]

What about "them"? Do you know what "them" means?

What version? Romans 8:30, right?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So... Is Romans 9 about individuals or the nation?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Calvin's good twist Romans 9 to their own destruction.

God's choice in Jacob was a metaphorical representation of God's choice in Christ. Esau represented Adam. Jacob represented Christ. You nuts twist it to make it about YOU!!! I preached a message on it close to 25 years ago. Its unmistakeable.

I have to say, this is the strangest appeal to authority I've ever seen in a discussion.

Good grief. It wasn't an appeal to authority. I was just making the point that I'm not a novice in the matter. Don't be childish.

I have to say, this is the second strangest appeal to authority I've ever seen in a discussion.

How is what i wrote an appeal to authority? Care to explain or are you just a "stinking beast" of Calvin's creation?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What about "them"? Do you know what "them" means?

What version? Romans 8:30, right?

Whatever version of "them" you prefer!

 

[FSSL]

.... just found a version with "them."

So now that this silly round-about has happened, what is your  point?

 

[rsc2a]

I've had opportunities in my life to work with Calvinists in ministry and I refused to do so. I gave up trying to get along with them. I just tell it like it is.

I'm sure they were absolutely heartbroken.

 

[Tim]

Some people just get so upset, it renders their arguments as clear as mud. 

As that guy in LA once said, "can't we all just get along"?

No more vitriolic polemic ad hominem attacks.

Let the succinctness and lucidity of your arguments rise to the fore.

Yeah. Jesus didn't get anything across when he made a whip and drove some people out of the temple. He RUINED everything He was trying to say....

Listen. I hate Calvinism. I HATE it. I've had opportunities in my life to work with Calvinists in ministry and I refused to do so. I gave up trying to get along with them. I just tell it like it is. Calvinism is a damnable doctrine that is destroying the lives of many people.

I could care less what you think about my methods. You're a Calvinist and all you're looking to do is pretend you're taking the "high road" in the argument. You have never made much of theological attempt to defend what you believe. You can't. Its beyond you. None of you really have. FSSL is just playing around. I use to think he could defend himself and he's proven my suspicion wrong.

And yet you spend hours on a forum with mostly Calvinist?

 

[Recovering IFB]

 

[praise_yeshua]

I've had opportunities in my life to work with Calvinists in ministry and I refused to do so. I gave up trying to get along with them. I just tell it like it is.

I'm sure they were absolutely heartbroken.

Just as much as those outside your circle.

 

[praise_yeshua]

.... just found a version with "them."

So now that this silly round-about has happened, what is your  point?

Tell me how "them" is singular.

 

[FSSL]

.... just found a version with "them."

So now that this silly round-about has happened, what is your  point?

Tell me how "them" is singular.

I never said that.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Some people just get so upset, it renders their arguments as clear as mud. 

As that guy in LA once said, "can't we all just get along"?

No more vitriolic polemic ad hominem attacks.

Let the succinctness and lucidity of your arguments rise to the fore.

Yeah. Jesus didn't get anything across when he made a whip and drove some people out of the temple. He RUINED everything He was trying to say....

Listen. I hate Calvinism. I HATE it. I've had opportunities in my life to work with Calvinists in ministry and I refused to do so. I gave up trying to get along with them. I just tell it like it is. Calvinism is a damnable doctrine that is destroying the lives of many people.

I could care less what you think about my methods. You're a Calvinist and all you're looking to do is pretend you're taking the "high road" in the argument. You have never made much of theological attempt to defend what you believe. You can't. Its beyond you. None of you really have. FSSL is just playing around. I use to think he could defend himself and he's proven my suspicion wrong.

And yet you spend hours on a forum with mostly Calvinist?

There are few here.... I wouldn't say they are the majority. To fight the good fight.... you have to spend time with them.... Geesh!!!!