FFF Role In Current Trends

Binaca Chugger

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I wonder how large of a role the FFF played in individual's decisions to move away from the old IFB movement.  I know that during the scandal years, this site was very busy and many people were sharing ideas.  If someone wanted a slightly more reasonable declaration of the facts, this was the place to be.  Many people stuck around for more than the gossip and began to engage with others about the purpose of particular standards and theological discussions.

If the FFF made in impact on your current positions, would you share a bit of your story?
 
I had become disillusioned with the IFB through a series of events and employments in various IFB churches.  I met a Southern Baptist who was not what I had been taught Southern Baptists were.  I decided it was time to learn more about what really was going on around me in my childhood and found myself on the FFF.  I had remembered this site as a good source of information during eh passing of Bro. Hyles.  I also recalled laughing myself into tears as I read the YMBAH thread.  I read and commented on the past issues.  My mind was blown when I realized that a former staff member who I had thought of as my confidant was actually grooming me for abuse.  I continued to discuss theological issues.

For me, this was a good place to vent and ask questions.  I am currently an IFB in a Southern Baptist church (I am a bit of an oddity).
 
Binaca Chugger, I just learned by reading the thread that a former staff member was grooming you  for abuse. I'm so sorry that made me ill. I hope you have stood above the negative and continued
 
"  I am currently an IFB in a Southern Baptist church (I am a bit of an oddity)."

Try being an IFB in an Assemblies of God church.

Anyway, the best contribution FFF made to my life was showing me that HAC had a LOT more sin than I had imagined. The "no criticism" rule was one of the finest tools Satan ever handed HAC.
 
I'm not sure it had a major role as SFL and Darrell had. I think they had a larger influence especially when the Schaap scandal occurred.
 
Oddly enough, it was Eric Capaci that caused me to first find FFF; he was being touted as such a great person in the circles I was in - he had written "The Value of One", which many IFB churches were having as specials.

And then.
Suddenly.

No one was talking about him anymore, and when I tried to ask, I was shut down.

So, I took to Google and near the top of the hits was the FFF with a discussion about how he had left Longview and was using/favoring contemporary music - which was pretty much the ultimate sin in our groups.  A man who committed adultery was better treated that someone who "went contemporary".

As for impact... I was shocked to start hearing about what the (supposed) great men (Hyles and Bob Gray-TX) did - how they treated people they were supposed to pastor. I initially assumed that it was a bunch of better ex-members and liberals frequenting this site who were making up stories or (more likely) exaggering what had happened to "bring down" these "great ministries". (We were in a HAC church at the time, and were pretty heavy drinkers of the Kool-Aide)

But there was enough stuff on the FFF that made me wonder if it MIGHT be true.

Coyote was on here then, and the "Tales from the Temple" had been published.  Got that book and read it. It just had the ring of truth and was completely believable.

Then (and I know he's not popular here, but it was a huge help to me), one time when I was traveling, a pastor gave me David Cloud's "Way of Life" encyclopedia and I started reading Way of Life. I was utterly shocked that anyone would dare to criticize Jack Hyles in public.  He pointed out un-Biblical positions of Curtis Hudson and the Sword of the Lord, and I found his arguments valid and Biblical.

That, plus the increasing cult-like way the HAC pastor was treated at our own church, led us out to a balanced IFB church.
 
TheRealJonStewart said:
I'm not sure it had a major role as SFL and Darrell had. I think they had a larger influence especially when the Schaap scandal occurred.

I was not on the older versions of the FFF.  I hear they had more traffic.  Isn't this the same version that was up during the Schaap scandal?
 
Sherryh said:
Binaca Chugger, I just learned by reading the thread that a former staff member was grooming you  for abuse. I'm so sorry that made me ill. I hope you have stood above the negative and continued

Yes.  Once I read his public letter apologizing for his sins, and I learned what "grooming for abuse" was, I realized that had happened to me.  He had done the same with many other students and it was about to happen to me.  Again, this individual had a major influence for good in my life, and maybe kept me from doing harm to myself during a very difficult time.  He pointed me towards right when I was angry at everyone else who was pulling me towards the right direction.  Personally, I think it went something like this:

He had a good intention to help me as a Christian leader.  I took to him as someone who accepted and cared and wanted what was right for me.  I asked him for advice and counsel.  We began to spend time together outside of our normal routines.  I would spend time with him at his house.  Somewhere along the way, the relationship became a little deeper than normal Christian leader/counselor to close friend.  My dad only one time mentioned that this relationship might be a little awkward and that I might want to put a little distance between myself and this man relationally.  I agreed, but didn't understand.  Once, while spending time at his home, things got a little awkward and while working on a computer, he put his hand on me while leaning over me looking at the screen.  It was perfectly natural and yet it was not.  I said something to him, he changed position and I moved.  I did begin to spend less time with him.  He did invite me to a "special place" under the guise of spiritual growth one time.  My dad told me it was not a good idea for people in such different life situations to be on such a trip together.  I am now thankful I listened.  The pattern revealed later showed that others were sexually abused there.  I never realized what was happening until much later.  I think that as I kept spending time with him, and our relationship as friends became closer, his "demons" began to swell up inside him.  I think it was something that he was trying to fight back, while at the same time allowing them to have some sway over his actions.  I do not believe that there was intent from the beginning to pull me into such a relationship.

I am fine.  I never went into victim mode.  It did blow my mind when I realized what had really happened and what he was fighting back and yet allowing to be in his mind during that time.  After all, this was a person who had a major role in my choosing ministry over secular work, and, for quite a while, I felt was only one of two people who really cared about me at all.  The events have not scarred me or caused me to become a different person, at least, not to my knowledge.

My experience does give me some question about those who engaged in sexual activity with their spiritual leaders.  At some point, there was a willing consensus to engage in the activity.  All of the blame cannot rest on the abuser.  I understand the manipulation and emotional connection.  The same person who groomed me, did abuse many others and even admitted so later in life.  So, I went through the same issues.  In most of these cases, the victim agreed when they could have walked away.  I understand the threats to blame and once the issue happened, it would be difficult to speak up.  However, the victim agreed to put themselves in the situation.  The victim chose to participate.  I understand the issue of a sexual predator using his power of position to groom the victim.  Yet, I don't believe that the victim should be completely free of any wrong doing.  Because, the victim chose to participate.  in the case of violent attack, this is different.  However, that is not what happened at HAC or other churches. 
 
Is this person still in ministry?  Your dad was right on target. . I never put them on idle worship. They are men not God. Thank you for sharing. I hope he is not involved with others.
 
Sherryh said:
Is this person still in ministry?  Your dad was right on target. . I never put them on idle worship. They are men not God. Thank you for sharing. I hope he is not involved with others.

Oh no.  He is not in ministry.  Last I talked to him, he was in a local church.  He seemed genuinely repentant and was absolutely miserable with himself and the knowledge of the wrong he had done.  He was in a program for help with his particular situation.
 
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