First Baptist Church of Hammond Reformation

[Jrock]

What changes would you like to see at FBCH? This could be changes in doctrine, practice, standards, etc.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Dunno. Haven't been there since 1988 and I'm sure there have been changes, so no opinion from me.

 

[prophet]

What changes would you like to see at FBCH? This could be changes in doctrine, practice, standards, etc.

Are you there, and are you in a position to influence such changes?

earnestly contend

 

[Jrock]

No. I never attended FBCH but have read many things about them online. I'm just wondering if they still have a large crowd at the front when they give an altar call invitation. I remember seeing that online when Jack Schaap was the pastor.

 

[Twisted]

I'm just wondering if they still have a large crowd at the front when they give an altar call invitation. I remember seeing that online when Jack Schaap was the pastor.

Those were just paid staff praying they'd have a job the next week.

 

[Walt]

What changes would you like to see at FBCH? This could be changes in doctrine, practice, standards, etc.

I'd like to see them clean out the old leadership that supported JH and JS.

Would like to see true holiness being practiced, and a better, balanced approach to the Great Commission.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

No. I never attended FBCH but have read many things about them online. I'm just wondering if they still have a large crowd at the front when they give an altar call invitation. I remember seeing that online when Jack Schaap was the pastor.

Huh. Odd. I never attended FBCH, or HAC, so while I have read of many things as many others have, and have opinions as many others have, I kinda feel it not my place to propose or suggest or ask what changes a local church may or may not need to make. It would be pretentious of me to do so.

And when you bring up concerns, you bring up the altar call. People use the altar our of conviction, out of culture, and even out of convenience, none of which you or I are qualified to comment on.

Just saying. Not my place to concern myself with the details of a local church that I am not a member of, and have never attended

 

[Twisted]

Just saying. Not my place to concern myself with the details of a local church that I am not a member of, and have never attended

And you're commenting here why?

 

[Walt]

No. I never attended FBCH but have read many things about them online. I'm just wondering if they still have a large crowd at the front when they give an altar call invitation. I remember seeing that online when Jack Schaap was the pastor.

Huh. Odd. I never attended FBCH, or HAC, so while I have read of many things as many others have, and have opinions as many others have, I kinda feel it not my place to propose or suggest or ask what changes a local church may or may not need to make. It would be pretentious of me to do so.

Well, yes and no... it is certainly valid to comment on a local church's practices when that church claims to be/wants to be a "leader" of Fundamentalism, or wants me to buy materials from them.  I don't know if FBCH still has that dream or not.

And when you bring up concerns, you bring up the altar call. People use the altar our of conviction, out of culture, and even out of convenience, none of which you or I are qualified to comment on.

The Hyles teaching was that people should go to the altar just to make the pastor feel good that the altars were filled, whether or not they had any conviction or not.  Good churches / pastors make it available, but don't insist that everyone must come forward. I've been in HAC churches where going to the altar was just part of what one did, like bowing one's head for prayer.  Worldly teens and adults would swarm to the altar at each invitation because they were told to, but nothing changed in their lives. Some of the more spiritual people didn't go forward, but showed via a changed life that God had used the message to speak to their hearts.

Just saying. Not my place to concern myself with the details of a local church that I am not a member of, and have never attended

Again, generally noble, but when a local church invites others to attend their conferences and college, I want to know what kind of a place it is and what they teach.

 

[Vince Massi]

They have a policy of "No new scandals," but previous scandals will still be covered up. I wish they would change that policy.

They need to announce to the church and college:

1) Jack Hyles was used by God to build a gigantic church. After he turned KJO, he presided over one of the greatest church declines in history, taking FBCH from over 40,000 to less than 6,000.

2) HAC was founded on deceit. The original students were not told that they were unaccredited, that "Dr." Billings purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill, and that Al Wadell was a bus mechanic who was made a professor so he wouldn't tell people about Jim Vineyard's violence.

3) The people who told Jack Hyles about Dave were telling the truth. The church needs to apologize to his victims.

4) The college protected and gave false honors to violent gang members under the protection of Jim Vineyard. With Jack Hyles' authorization, HAC falsified the grades and other records of students who objected to the sins of Vineyard's Gangsters. Jim Vineyard was authorized to slander those students and was authorized to attach permanent slanders to the transcripts of those students.

5) HAC appears to be more despised by its graduates than any other college in the United States.

6) HAC has produced more pastors who have served jail time for sex crimes than every college and university in the Southern Baptist Convention combined.

7) Most of the success of the IFB movement in the 60's and 70's was due to Southern Baptists joining IFB churches. While Hyles himself was a major exception, most IFB megachurches were in the Bible Belt, and most of their leadership and finances came from Godly Southern Baptists who wanted to do something with their lives.

 

[bgwilkinson]

They have a policy of "No new scandals," but previous scandals will still be covered up. I wish they would change that policy.

They need to announce to the church and college:

1) Jack Hyles was used by God to build a gigantic church. After he turned KJO, he presided over one of the greatest church declines in history, taking FBCH from over 40,000 to less than 6,000.

2) HAC was founded on deceit. The original students were not told that they were unaccredited, that "Dr." Billings purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill, and that Al Wadell was a bus mechanic who was made a professor so he wouldn't tell people about Jim Vineyard's violence.

3) The people who told Jack Hyles about Dave were telling the truth. The church needs to apologize to his victims.

4) The college protected and gave false honors to violent gang members under the protection of Jim Vineyard. With Jack Hyles' authorization, HAC falsified the grades and other records of students who objected to the sins of Vineyard's Gangsters. Jim Vineyard was authorized to slander those students and was authorized to attach permanent slanders to the transcripts of those students.

5) HAC appears to be more despised by its graduates than any other college in the United States.

6) HAC has produced more pastors who have served jail time for sex crimes than every college and university in the Southern Baptist Convention combined.

7) Most of the success of the IFB movement in the 60's and 70's was due to Southern Baptists joining IFB churches. While Hyles himself was a major exception, most IFB megachurches were in the Bible Belt, and most of their leadership and finances came from Godly Southern Baptists who wanted to do something with their lives.

These are the kind of thing that need to be revealed. If you have any good documentation or affidavits from eyewitnesses this would be a good place to bring them to the light of day. Your list is a good start but it is just a start.

 

[Walt]

6) HAC has produced more pastors who have served jail time for sex crimes than every college and university in the Southern Baptist Convention combined.

My first reaction: WOW!

Second reaction: Is this a statement of fact, a guess, or an exaggeration??

 

[Walt]

They have a policy of "No new scandals," but previous scandals will still be covered up. I wish they would change that policy.

They need to announce to the church and college:

1) Jack Hyles was used by God to build a gigantic church. After he turned KJO, he presided over one of the greatest church declines in history, taking FBCH from over 40,000 to less than 6,000.

2) HAC was founded on deceit. The original students were not told that they were unaccredited, that "Dr." Billings purchased his doctorate from a diploma mill, and that Al Wadell was a bus mechanic who was made a professor so he wouldn't tell people about Jim Vineyard's violence.

3) The people who told Jack Hyles about Dave were telling the truth. The church needs to apologize to his victims.

4) The college protected and gave false honors to violent gang members under the protection of Jim Vineyard. With Jack Hyles' authorization, HAC falsified the grades and other records of students who objected to the sins of Vineyard's Gangsters. Jim Vineyard was authorized to slander those students and was authorized to attach permanent slanders to the transcripts of those students.

5) HAC appears to be more despised by its graduates than any other college in the United States.

6) HAC has produced more pastors who have served jail time for sex crimes than every college and university in the Southern Baptist Convention combined.

7) Most of the success of the IFB movement in the 60's and 70's was due to Southern Baptists joining IFB churches. While Hyles himself was a major exception, most IFB megachurches were in the Bible Belt, and most of their leadership and finances came from Godly Southern Baptists who wanted to do something with their lives.

These are the kind of thing that need to be revealed. If you have any good documentation or affidavits from eyewitnesses this would be a good place to bring them to the light of day. Your list is a good start but it is just a start.

Agreed that it is a good start.  Would also like to see them state that Jack Hyles was WRONG

• In his leadership philosophy
• In his teaching about the eternal humanity of Jesus
• In his teaching that by seeing a lot of people saved, you earn "credits" to offset sins
• When he stated that he would use his church to build people; he actually used people to build "his" church, and thus his reputation

 

[Walt]

They have a policy of "No new scandals," but previous scandals will still be covered up. I wish they would change that policy.

Even "no new scandals" is a bad policy.  Humans are sinful, and there will likely still be scandals. A much better policy is "No more coverup of scandals" or "We will no longer cover a leader's sin."

 

[Bruh]

:

 

[bgwilkinson]

6) HAC has produced more pastors who have served jail time for sex crimes than every college and university in the Southern Baptist Convention combined.

My first reaction: WOW!

Second reaction: Is this a statement of fact, a guess, or an exaggeration??

No, not an exaggeration, it is Bro. Hyles legacy. Schaap was his last chance to have at least one child with a Godly family.

Every one of his kids turned out wrong. That's zero for  four.