For CCM? Please convince us FROM Scripture alone

Since were posting lyrics:

Care not for the men who wonder
Straw that broke your back, you're under
Cast all them aside who care
Empty eyes and dead end stare

Don't you know that none are blind
To the lie, and you think I don't find what you hide?

What in God's name have you done?
Stick your arm for some real fun

For the horse you've grown much fonder
Than for me, that I don't ponder
As the hair of one who bit you
Smiling bite your own self, too

And I think that you're not blind
To the ones you left behind
I'll be here

What in God's name have you done?
Stick your arm for some real fun

So be yearning all your life
Twisting, turning like a knife

Now you know the reasons why
Can't get high, or you will die
Or you'll die

What in God's name have you done?
Stick your arm for some real fun
So your sickness weighs a ton
And God's name is smack for some
 
Linking the thought processes of two different threads with different themes, it seems like it is wrong to interfere with churches concerning the use of their facilities for gays but it is OK for other Christians to interfere with churches by criticizing their musical choices.

If church ABC down the street finds a spiritual link in the lyrics to Take Me Out to the Ballgame and decides as a congregation to use that in their services, though I might not find it worshipful, who am I to determine what triggers worship inside of someone else?
 
admin said:
Smelling Coffee... see Bruh's posts. He has an iPod of ecclectic stuff ready for his Sunday School class!
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If he played Train's Hey, Soul Sister, I might just sit in on that class!
 
admin said:
What a sad state of affairs that we have to debate on a board of Christians that the concept of speaking life is even found in Scripture.
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My hypothesis, which finds more and more support every time we get into one of these threads, is that to a certain slice of fundyism, the only good art is that which is also good propaganda.

So only songs with a fairly high explicit "Jesus quotient" really count as Christian music. For the rest, the author might be a Christian singing from a Christian worldview  to a Christian audience about Christian concepts, but if you have to actually sit down, reflect on where he's coming from, and actually think about what he is singing, it's not sufficiently Christian.

Fundies love mediocrity, because thinking is hard, and doesn't "redeem the time" that could be spent swallowing goldfish on a bus for Jesus. That's why fundamentalist poetry is always so horrible, and will never reach the heights of W. H. Auden, Margaret Avison or T. S. Eliot.
 
Ransom said:
So only songs with a fairly high explicit "Jesus quotient" really count as Christian music.
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Which would rule out Amazing Grace, a song set to a pub tune that doesn't name Jesus at all.
 
Ransom said:
Aleister Crowley, Noam Chomsky and Hunter S Thompson were brilliant, eloquent and talented also.
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And the relevance of this particular factoid to my post is . . . ?
 
[quote author=Ransom]My hypothesis, which finds more and more support every time we get into one of these threads, is that to a certain slice of fundyism, the only good art is that which is also good propaganda.[/quote]

It's hard to see the implicit when you can only identify black and white.  It also makes for really dumb reading of scripture when you only pay attention to the explicit.
 
aleshanee said:
so you think it is ok for proponents of ccm to come into a traditionally minded church and force them to change their music?........ because the way i see it that is the issue here......... i guess you missed the post where i told admin i didn;t care what kind of music he had in his own church as long as he did not try to force it into mine......... yet he continued to push the issue .. calling me ignorant and biblically illiterate .. and demanding reference to specific scripture with precise wording to prove why he can;t and shouldn;t try to do exactly that........
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If they legitimately become members of a congregation, shouldn't they have a say? I'm really not attacking you or your opinion about this. Truthfully, I'm not. Cultures change, that's simply a fact. Each church has the personal right to make similar changes to accommodate a shifting culture, or choose to stay traditional or in cases of churches in our area, provide both types of services. That should be left up to each congregation and its leadership. If CCMers are "forcing" the issue, then leadership needs to step in and either hear them out or if the situation becomes a matter of contention, kick them out.

Musical style is a matter of taste and not necessarily morality. That is not to say that every church service should be a "free-for-all" and all musical styles involved but rather the church's music should reflect the heart AND tastes of its congregation, wherever that may lie.


aleshanee said:
but ultimately you can believe whatever you want.....  or see it however you want........ you were pretty conservative when i first met you on the old fff 10 years ago.... and even i wasn;t you were...and still are among the forum people i;ve met who i respect the most..... and i still do....  but i just think it;s incredibly ironic that 10 years ago i was considered the most liberal person on the old forum....... and now 10 years later i;m being lumped in with the ultra conservatives and even a labelled an ifbxer......... and yet i have not changed anything i believe in all that time........ you on the other hand have........ and you seem just as convinced today that you are right, in your new liberal beliefs, as you were 10 years ago in your conservative beliefs.......... what happened?......
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You are correct about me. I have changed and I do think I am right. If there is something I thought was wrong, why would I be "convinced" otherwise?

Concerning change, for me it is a pursuit of the truth. This involves a metamorphosis of sorts as clues to the evidences of truth change the dynamic. In general, people gradually settle on that which is most comfortable to them, suits their ideals and brings them to a situation where they most "fit in". I'm not at all saying that it is wrong to find such a position in life. Sometimes, the traveler on life's journey finds it sooner in life than another. Some might never find it and perhaps I am one of those people. I don't know.

But I hope you realize that any change of belief I have made has been made with much prayer, thought, discussion with others and not of a flippant attitude or that of purposeful rebellion. That for sure doesn't mean I am always right (though I believe what I think is right at a given time). The longer I live, I become certain of one particular thing: uncertainty. When I filter my beliefs, thoughts and actions through the teachings of Jesus, I tend to become too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals.

God has much more to teach me and who knows? I might end up coming back into a full circle.
 
aleshanee said:
and yet what was it admin demanded to be shown before he will accept that some of us have a right to reject ccm music?........ he wanted explicit scriptures showing ccm was wrong........... he completely disregarded the implicit...
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Obviously, there's a difference between what constitutes good art, and what constitutes a good infallible rule of faith. Which is why laws aren't written in rhyming couplets.

So far as I know, no one who advocates the liberty to employ CCM songs in personal or corporate worship, is claiming they operate as an infallible rule of faith for Christians.

If you want to charge someone with inconsistency, then there actually has to be an inconsistency.
 
aleshanee said:
Ransom said:
aleshanee said:
and yet what was it admin demanded to be shown before he will accept that some of us have a right to reject ccm music?........ he wanted explicit scriptures showing ccm was wrong........... he completely disregarded the implicit...
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Obviously, there's a difference between what constitutes good art, and what constitutes a good infallible rule of faith. Which is why laws aren't written in rhyming couplets.

So far as I know, no one who advocates the liberty to employ CCM songs in personal or corporate worship, is claiming they operate as an infallible rule of faith for Christians.
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from where i stand... the name calling and accusations thrown at me by admin simply because i disagree with him on ccm music are exactly that..... i said i didn;t care what music he used in his church... i even said i liked the song... i just do not want to hear it during the worship service in my church............ .. yet he took offense and demanded explicit scripture be quoted as to why i felt that way..... that is not the spirit of someone saying "let me have mine and you can yours..."... that;s the attitude of someone declaring... "you will take mine and like it... or else you will tell me why..."

If you want to charge someone with inconsistency, then there actually has to be an inconsistency.
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and i believe there is inconsistency with admin on this issue.... and not of the unintentional kind either.....there has been twisting of others posts and deliberate misrepresentation of what others are saying on his part........ and i think others here can see it too..... .... if that means you are going to offer us another "my way or the highway" ultimatum... or ban us if we don;t agree with you or can;t see things the same way you do then fine..... say the word and i;m out of here..........

like i said in another thread..... the thing that made previous versions of the fff so successful and also enjoyable was the fact the webmasters of those forums did not post and get involved in forum discussions as admin .... with a moderator in tow... and then use their forum as a bully pulpit to force feed their ideology to everybody else.... threatening to ban people that didn;t jump back into line with them....... if don and andrew posted as regulars on their forums they did so anonymously......

you can take that for what it;s worth or not take it at all........... i don;t care anymore and i;m tired of this issue.......  but i won;t be called ignorant and biblically illiterate just because i see things from a different perspective than his self anointed majesty the admin..... and i;m tired of people pulling out the mental/emotional issue like they think it;s a trump card to try and discredit me...... all that has happened in this thread .........
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I don't know if you know these ppl personally? But I wouldn't take them to serious.

When we ask for chapter and verse it is absurd but when they ask for chapter and verse it is a well thought out educated............. ::)
 
J-Train = Crazy Train

Nope, no resemblance. 
 
Smellin Coffee said:
If they legitimately become members of a congregation, shouldn't they have a say?
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Depends. Initially, no. I don't mean they don't get to vote, but when new people join, I remind them that they are joining us, not the opposite. I also explain what we are as far as a church goes, including music. If they want to join a CCM playing church, don't join here. No one is forced to join. What I am getting at is that it is unethical to join a church with the intention of changing it, or I would join all the churches in town and make it my ministry to change them.
 
[quote author=ItinerantPreacher]What I am getting at is that it is unethical to join a church with the intention of changing it, or I would join all the churches in town and make it my ministry to change them.[/quote]

What an odd (not really but definitely un-Biblical) definition of church you are using here.
 
[quote author=aleshanee]...or serve God in the way they believe He leads them..... without insulting them...

...from where i stand... the name calling...

...i would say hypocrisy doesn;t fit you well..... but...[/quote]

Earlier:

...you and your squirrel... - Aleshanee
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=ItinerantPreacher]What I am getting at is that it is unethical to join a church with the intention of changing it, or I would join all the churches in town and make it my ministry to change them.
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What an odd (not really but definitely un-Biblical) definition of church you are using here.
[/quote]What definition am I using?
 
Bruh said:
When we ask for chapter and verse it is absurd but when they ask for chapter and verse it is a well thought out educated.............
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That's because when you demand chapter and verse, you're usually attempting to refute an argument that isn't being made. Probably, something to do with cannabis.

"Absurd" isn't quite the right word. "Absurdist," perhaps, is better, except that Waiting for Godot is even more entertaining than your weed screed.
 
Ransom said:
Bruh said:
When we ask for chapter and verse it is absurd but when they ask for chapter and verse it is a well thought out educated.............
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That's because when you demand chapter and verse, you're usually attempting to refute an argument that isn't being made. Probably, something to do with cannabis.

"Absurd" isn't quite the right word. "Absurdist," perhaps, is better, except that Waiting for Godot is even more entertaining than your weed screed.
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You forgot  ::)
 
admin said:
Mentioning that you like tobyMac and the NIV is like chumming the IFBr's waters!

I am getting a kick out of seeing Bruh's iTunes library!
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Hey, no issue with TobyMac daddy here.  I mean if you like to listen to a guy that wears skinny jeans and scarfs..........................  LOL!!! each his own I guess.  ;)
 
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