For clarification!

[Reformed Guy]

Concerning my positions in these debates, if and WHEN I err, I pray it is always on the side of the distribution of grace and mercy. Sometimes that means living in a world of gray instead of being dogmatic in favor of one side over the other.

Well, you seem consistently & persistently dogmatic about your gray.

Must be frustrating living in a world of bland confusion.

 

[Ransom]

Don't build your doctrine on silence in the bible, that includes homosexuality etc.

For the record, the only people in the homosexuality debate using an actual "argument from silence" are the ones saying that Jesus never had anything to say about it (and therefore tacitly accepted it).

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Concerning my positions in these debates, if and WHEN I err, I pray it is always on the side of the distribution of grace and mercy. Sometimes that means living in a world of gray instead of being dogmatic in favor of one side over the other.

Well, you seem consistently & persistently dogmatic about your gray.

Must be frustrating living in a world of bland confusion.

Frustrating? Not really. I realize God is not in my self-constructed box of ideal (nor in a religious box of any stripe - including the Bible) and so I should expect ambiguity. The longer I try to understand (and yes, fail), the more I see grace, and God, in the gray.

Why does my perception bother you so much that you would think I am frustrated?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Some people on here would be better off by following this one rule when dealing with scripture. Golden rule of Theology. Don't build your doctrine on silence in the bible, that includes homosexuality etc.

And another equally important rule--  Don't silence what the Bible clearly says.

Homosexuality is sin.  Why other options are being discussed on a Christian forum befuddles the mind.

And I've already stated my position on this as well as shown there are other positions out there, right and wrong.

Wait, now who is frustrated befuddled?

 

[Reformed Guy]

Concerning my positions in these debates, if and WHEN I err, I pray it is always on the side of the distribution of grace and mercy. Sometimes that means living in a world of gray instead of being dogmatic in favor of one side over the other.

Well, you seem consistently & persistently dogmatic about your gray.

Must be frustrating living in a world of bland confusion.

Frustrating? Not really. I realize God is not in my self-constructed box of ideal (nor in a religious box of any stripe - including the Bible) and so I should expect ambiguity. The longer I try to understand (and yes, fail), the more I see grace, and God, in the gray.

Why does my perception bother you so much that you would think I am frustrated?

Your "god" is in your "self-constructed box" because you will not permit him to reveal truth in black & white, but only in shades of gray.

I know you're frustrated because it's tough banging your knees stumbling around in the dark. 

 

[Bob H]

I believe God hates sin, but loves the sinner.

I wonder if Jonathan Edwards would agree?

 

[Potatochip]

This one is fairly simple.  Romans 1:27 And likewise also the
men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of
their error which was meet.

So in essence what this says to me is.  Why judge?  Gods judgment is clearly there.  Its just solid proof.  They have Aids.  All kinds of social disease.  The judgment itself I guess is being handed over to there lusts for denying God.  So whats the point of judging.  What God has already executed judgment on.

 

[rsc2a]

Why oh why is it when people cite Rom 1:27, they so often ignore the verses immediately following it?

 

[Potatochip]

Oh I agree the world is still under Gods grace.  However lol what God has handed them over to.  Simple enough.  The rate of social disease in that group is astronomical.  Not to metion the fact.  I have been to "Gay parades" preaching.  Which I won't do anymore.  Some of those people are so far gone lol.  There is no point.  Theres more to the passage of course.  Plain fact is God has given them over to what they are homosexual.  There is no point taking a vote on it lol.  They get to live a digusting lifestyle because thats what God gave them over to.  Judgment complete.  If they somehow don't get out of it.  They go to hell and burn forever.  The Bible is very clear on that. 

 

[rsc2a]

Have you even read the verses immediately following it?

 

[Potatochip]

I have and if God has executed judgment and handed them over to that situation then thats it.  I sure can't improve on it.  Except Gods other judgment no homosexual will inherit the Kingdom of God.  Let a guy die not telling him what scripture says is going to happen to him is not what I do.  Being nice is ok.  You can say grace all you want.  Thats what the WORLD is under before the day.  However in the mean time people die everyday.  I believe scripture so there is no point trying to reason with me.

 

[rsc2a]

Guess that answers that question.

You don't even know the main point of the passage.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Concerning my positions in these debates, if and WHEN I err, I pray it is always on the side of the distribution of grace and mercy. Sometimes that means living in a world of gray instead of being dogmatic in favor of one side over the other.

Well, you seem consistently & persistently dogmatic about your gray.

Must be frustrating living in a world of bland confusion.

Frustrating? Not really. I realize God is not in my self-constructed box of ideal (nor in a religious box of any stripe - including the Bible) and so I should expect ambiguity. The longer I try to understand (and yes, fail), the more I see grace, and God, in the gray.

Why does my perception bother you so much that you would think I am frustrated?

Your "god" is in your "self-constructed box" because you will not permit him to reveal truth in black & white, but only in shades of gray.

I know you're frustrated because it's tough banging your knees stumbling around in the dark.

"Black and white" is what creates confinement. Understanding what/who God is, is a futile pursuit. The closest thing we have is exemplified through the life and teachings of Jesus but the information we have been passed on still only scratches the surface because we are limited in our knowledge of Jesus' earthly teachings. It's like a guy "understanding" his mail-order bride based only on a caricature drawing of her before he ever meets her. There is a whole lot more depth there that is not revealed nor comprehended.

What I do glean from Christ is that God is about grace, love and mercy toward me, regardless of any "black and white" or "gray" perception. I realize that I am to do justly, love mercy and walk with God the best I know how. I am to love God and love my neighbor as myself. I am to live my life of love, repentance and forgiveness of others. Though I can't understand, there is comfort in knowing I can fall only on His grace because that is all I have. "Black and white" does not necessitate faith: living in the gray does. Does that mean "stumbling" and the "banging of knees"? Sure, but that is where grace is. That is the reason for faith. That is where I want to be. I realize that I don't have the answers, will never find all of them and don't need to expect others to live as I believe I should, based on my personal faith and walk with God. I don't have to fear a practicing homosexual or critique one who has his own relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I don't have to fear "heresy" when I realize that everybody espouses it to some degree because we cannot know the mind of God and view our personal theology through our relative lens. I don't have to fear having a "perfect Bible" because I realize God cannot be contained within its pages. In the "gray" I have the freedom to love people as they are, forgive them for what they've done to me and let God take care of the final outcome someday. I have the freedom to fall on God's grace daily, to exercise my faith because of my not knowing or understanding. Not only do I not have to know it all, I don't have to understand any of it and I believe God is OK with that.

 

[rsc2a]

A God of grace,  love, and mercy...

...and a God of truth, justice,  and judgment.

 

[Ransom]

We can't possibly understand what God is like, but I'm prety sure he'd be the way I'd wnt him to be.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

We can't possibly understand what God is like, but I'm prety sure he'd be the way I'd wnt him to be.

Exactly. No matter one's theological preference.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

A God of grace,  love, and mercy...

...and a God of truth, justice,  and judgment.

Agreed. I experience the former now, am told to distribute the former now and let God handle the latter in His timing at His whim.

 

[rsc2a]

A God of grace,  love, and mercy...

...and a God of truth, justice,  and judgment.

Agreed. I experience the former now, am told to distribute the former now and let God handle the latter in His timing at His whim.

So we don't need to be concerned with truth?

 

[Reformed Guy]

Concerning my positions in these debates, if and WHEN I err, I pray it is always on the side of the distribution of grace and mercy. Sometimes that means living in a world of gray instead of being dogmatic in favor of one side over the other.

Well, you seem consistently & persistently dogmatic about your gray.

Must be frustrating living in a world of bland confusion.

Frustrating? Not really. I realize God is not in my self-constructed box of ideal (nor in a religious box of any stripe - including the Bible) and so I should expect ambiguity. The longer I try to understand (and yes, fail), the more I see grace, and God, in the gray.

Why does my perception bother you so much that you would think I am frustrated?

Your "god" is in your "self-constructed box" because you will not permit him to reveal truth in black & white, but only in shades of gray.

I know you're frustrated because it's tough banging your knees stumbling around in the dark.

"Black and white" is what creates confinement. Understanding what/who God is, is a futile pursuit. The closest thing we have is exemplified through the life and teachings of Jesus but the information we have been passed on still only scratches the surface because we are limited in our knowledge of Jesus' earthly teachings. It's like a guy "understanding" his mail-order bride based only on a caricature drawing of her before he ever meets her. There is a whole lot more depth there that is not revealed nor comprehended.

What I do glean from Christ is that God is about grace, love and mercy toward me, regardless of any "black and white" or "gray" perception. I realize that I am to do justly, love mercy and walk with God the best I know how. I am to love God and love my neighbor as myself. I am to live my life of love, repentance and forgiveness of others. Though I can't understand, there is comfort in knowing I can fall only on His grace because that is all I have. "Black and white" does not necessitate faith: living in the gray does. Does that mean "stumbling" and the "banging of knees"? Sure, but that is where grace is. That is the reason for faith. That is where I want to be. I realize that I don't have the answers, will never find all of them and don't need to expect others to live as I believe I should, based on my personal faith and walk with God. I don't have to fear a practicing homosexual or critique one who has his own relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I don't have to fear "heresy" when I realize that everybody espouses it to some degree because we cannot know the mind of God and view our personal theology through our relative lens. I don't have to fear having a "perfect Bible" because I realize God cannot be contained within its pages. In the "gray" I have the freedom to love people as they are, forgive them for what they've done to me and let God take care of the final outcome someday. I have the freedom to fall on God's grace daily, to exercise my faith because of my not knowing or understanding. Not only do I not have to know it all, I don't have to understand any of it and I believe God is OK with that.

Does your "gray" perspective permit you to affirm that "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all?"

If so, please explain, in a manner consistent with your presuppositions, how that does not "confine" Him or put Him "in a box."

 

[Smellin Coffee]

A God of grace,  love, and mercy...

...and a God of truth, justice,  and judgment.

Agreed. I experience the former now, am told to distribute the former now and let God handle the latter in His timing at His whim.

So we don't need to be concerned with truth?

Jesus said he was the truth. I choose to follow Him and let my belief system fall where it may in light of that.