Freedom

[FundNoMore]

I have discovered that the greatest freedom a modern American Christian can discover is that a pastor is not essential to their relationship with Christ. I believe we still need Christian friends, those that are willing to discuss Bible issues as they relate to daily living, etc. , to pray with and I believe an association with others of like belief is helpful. However, every IFB preacher will tell you that in the Bible we each have the complete Word of God and that the Holy Spirit of God indwells us and is our teacher and our guide, so what more should anyone need? Today's preachers, not just IFB, want to be the Holy Spirit of their congregation which should be considered blasphemy. My relationship with Christ (God the Father and Holy Spirit included) is mine, not the preachers, and I trust them more.

 

[abcaines]

And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness. - Ephesians 4:11-13

So, are you superseding God's word by your freedom? It sounds to me like you have been under some tyrannical pastors. Are you judging all pastors by the actions of a few?

 

[FundNoMore]

And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness. - Ephesians 4:11-13

So, are you superseding God's word by your freedom? It sounds to me like you have been under some tyrannical pastors. Are you judging all pastors by the actions of a few?

Let's list some of these Pastor's and Evangelists and if you don't know their hypocrisy, look it up.
Bob Gray (Jacksonville) - covered up by the church board.
Jack Hyles
David Hyles - covered by his father Jack
Tom Neal
Jack Schaap
How many Christians and their families were destroyed by the hypocrisy and outright sin of IFB leaders. Marriages destroyed, faith severely damaged, friends and spiritual colleagues pulled apart to appease the personal vanity of these men. And the deacon boards that knowingly covered for these degenerates, "for the good of the ministry" are just as guilty. What will they say to Jesus when He looks at them and knows everything?
"But ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" I Peter 2:9
I'm not superseding anything. Nothing in your quote states that my personal relationship with the Trinity is in anyway dependent on having a pastor.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I have discovered that the greatest freedom a modern American Christian can discover is that a pastor is not essential to their relationship with Christ. I believe we still need Christian friends, those that are willing to discuss Bible issues as they relate to daily living, etc. , to pray with and I believe an association with others of like belief is helpful. However, every IFB preacher will tell you that in the Bible we each have the complete Word of God and that the Holy Spirit of God indwells us and is our teacher and our guide, so what more should anyone need? Today's preachers, not just IFB, want to be the Holy Spirit of their congregation which should be considered blasphemy. My relationship with Christ (God the Father and Holy Spirit included) is mine, not the preachers, and I trust them more.

The church is so valuable that the the God who inspired communication with you/us said that the relationship was akin to a husband and wife. It doesn't get much more relational and essential to existence than to live in the proper understanding of community. Loving God, and others, is the two greatest commandments of all, and there's no doubt that the special love that exists between believers is written explicitly on the pages of God's word to His church, which includes pastors.

 

[abcaines]

Let's list some of these Pastor's and Evangelists and if you don't know their hypocrisy, look it up.
Bob Gray (Jacksonville) - covered up by the church board.
Jack Hyles
David Hyles - covered by his father Jack
Tom Neal
Jack Schaap
How many Christians and their families were destroyed by the hypocrisy and outright sin of IFB leaders. Marriages destroyed, faith severely damaged, friends and spiritual colleagues pulled apart to appease the personal vanity of these men. And the deacon boards that knowingly covered for these degenerates, "for the good of the ministry" are just as guilty. What will they say to Jesus when He looks at them and knows everything?
"But ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" I Peter 2:9
I'm not superseding anything. Nothing in your quote states that my personal relationship with the Trinity is in anyway dependent on having a pastor.

Let's list some pastors who faithfully serve their congregations, teaching the Word...
Adrian Rogers
Tom Givens
Keith Davey
Craig Bellanger
Dan Fetters
Rick Kopp
Dan Smouse
John Stroupe
Steve Whinery
Chuck Smith
Randy Brantley
Dean Huibregtse
Paul Leboutillier
Aaron Gamb
Jim Evans
If you haven't heard of some of these, it is because the faithfully serve or have served their congregations. (Some are in Heaven now) They haven't made news headlines or have victims reporting their improprieties.
I have had personal contact each of these men and found them to be the real deal. Some well known, most not. Do I agree 100% with everyone on this list? Of course not. Are there bad pastors such as the ones you've listed? Yes. I knew a few myself and trust me, IFBdom doesn't corner the market on bad pastors; but they have no influence on me or my thinking. You need to free yourself of those who have failed. Their works speak for themselves. There are GOOD pastors out there. You need to associate with them.

 

[abcaines]

I'm going to add another name to my list. He was a graduate student when I knew him in Pensacola. He dicsipled me, encouraging me to get into the Word. He went on to become a pastor. I can only imagine the joy of sitting under the ministry of such a gentle spirit... I just found out he's gone to be with the Lord. His name was Chester Keith. Bittersweet tears are flowing right now...

 

[ALAYMAN]

Let's list some of these Pastor's and Evangelists and if you don't know their hypocrisy, look it up.
Bob Gray (Jacksonville) - covered up by the church board.
Jack Hyles
David Hyles - covered by his father Jack
Tom Neal
Jack Schaap
How many Christians and their families were destroyed by the hypocrisy and outright sin of IFB leaders. Marriages destroyed, faith severely damaged, friends and spiritual colleagues pulled apart to appease the personal vanity of these men. And the deacon boards that knowingly covered for these degenerates, "for the good of the ministry" are just as guilty. What will they say to Jesus when He looks at them and knows everything?
"But ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light" I Peter 2:9
I'm not superseding anything. Nothing in your quote states that my personal relationship with the Trinity is in anyway dependent on having a pastor.

I agree with abcaines logic. Why do you justify your approach towards pastoral relationships by listing the fold of pastors who are known hypocrites rather than scores of faithful servants?

 

[FundNoMore]

I agree with abcaines logic. Why do you justify your approach towards pastoral relationships by listing the fold of pastors who are known hypocrites rather than scores of faithful servants?

Oh I could list a lot more, but you are sidestepping the point of my original post. My personal relationship with the Holy Trinity is not dependent on my relationship with a pastor. That is indeed freedom.

 

[FundNoMore]

The church is so valuable that the the God who inspired communication with you/us said that the relationship was akin to a husband and wife. It doesn't get much more relational and essential to existence than to live in the proper understanding of community. Loving God, and others, is the two greatest commandments of all, and there's no doubt that the special love that exists between believers is written explicitly on the pages of God's word to His church, which includes pastors.

I didn't say anything about the church.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Oh I could list a lot more, but you are sidestepping the point of my original post. My personal relationship with the Holy Trinity is not dependent on my relationship with a pastor.

Well, in your original post you said...

"However, every IFB preacher will tell you that in the Bible we each have the complete Word of God and that the Holy Spirit of God indwells us and is our teacher and our guide, so what more should anyone need?"

The idea expressed in your words is inadequate per the Scriptures, whether that inadequacy is the teaching you imply from IFB pulpits, or your understanding of it, because as abcaines already has shown, your relationship with God means that to be in right relationship with His creation you need to be in right relationship with His church, and all that that entails, which is a right relationship with your brothers and sisters in Christ, as well as those who have been given charge for your soul.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I didn't say anything about the church.

You said a lot about the church. One of the most basic gifts and purposes that the church serves is for accountability. A person who can't present themselves to the church Christ died for has a defective view of their relationship to Him. An integral part of that relationship is through the acknowledged mutual submission in relation to the body. You cannot excise your role to the body and call it a healthy relationship, and the pastor is part of that circle.

 

[Walt]

I have discovered that the greatest freedom a modern American Christian can discover is that a pastor is not essential to their relationship with Christ. I believe we still need Christian friends, those that are willing to discuss Bible issues as they relate to daily living, etc. , to pray with and I believe an association with others of like belief is helpful. However, every IFB preacher will tell you that in the Bible we each have the complete Word of God and that the Holy Spirit of God indwells us and is our teacher and our guide, so what more should anyone need? Today's preachers, not just IFB, want to be the Holy Spirit of their congregation which should be considered blasphemy. My relationship with Christ (God the Father and Holy Spirit included) is mine, not the preachers, and I trust them more.

I agree and don't agree... I think that far too many pastors believe it is their job to convict the members of the church, or even to change them. This is the Holy Spirit's job... the pastor's job is to preach the truth and then allow the Holy Spirit to work. In this I agree with you.
I don't agree that the pastor is "not essential to their relationship with Christ" - pastors were given by God and certainly serve a purpose.